Steering Relay Oil

Having put new gaskets and seals on my steering relay (1969 2A), and not getting any oil out with the bottom plate removed, I've been out today to fill it up.

I removed the upper lever and two of the top plate bolts. I got a few squirts of oil in before it sat level and wouldn't sink in. I removed a third bolt but still couldn't get any more oil in. I blew the three holes out with my air line and tried again, but again did not get far.

I assume I need to remove the whole unit now and give it a refurb. It's got to be full of dirt and old oil? Maybe even rust.. when I came to work on it one of the bolts was missing so over the years (it was SORN'd 8 years before I got it) the weather will have done its bit.

Unless.. someone here has a good trick for getting oil into it?

Put a tube in it with a syringe as a funnel and leave it overnight. The bubbles come out very slowly. You could try filling it with penetrating oil then refilling it with ep140.

I don't have a syringe but I have some tubing and an oil can with a thumb pump. Good idea..

I've been using EP80W-90 as my gear oil. I see EP140 http://www.millersoils.co.uk/products/classic-gear-oil-ep-140-gl4/169 is specially recommended for classic gearboxes and diffs. Is this what you use on your Series Rob?

I'm using EP140 gl4 for the swivels and relay as its thicker in the vain hope that more stays in and it drips less. For the gearbox and diffs I'm using ep80-90 GL4 which I get by the gallon from our local motor factors for around £20. Its Comma and they usially deny stocking it unitl I point out they seel it to me every year at which point they go off and get some, I think it must be the furthest point in the warehouse. Only ever use GL4 never GL5, there's a lot on the web about why. Re the relay, you could warm it up a bit to get the bubbles out then it should suck some in when it cools but be carefull! The judgment about getting it our is all about whether its rusted into the chassis or not, if its not then its a simple job, if it is you have a major job with heat and lots of force.

Would it help if someone worked the steering whilst you dribble the oil in. We used to do it that way on the old buses.

Col

Have you tried removing the drain bolt from the bottom to see what comes out. Drain bolt should be the one on the nearside. If you get this out and with just one of the top bolts removed see if you can use the air line to blow through.

@kane: I recently had the bottom plate off entirely to replace the seal and gasket. The relay was empty, or at least nothing drained out.. There was a lot of old oil congealed around the lower lever, so I assumed everything had drained out. - I might yet try taking the drain bolt out again and using the air line again as you suggest. That's a good idea too.

Tubing goes about 1" in the top.. into dirty oil. So it might be blocked between this dirty oil at the top and the drain hole in the bottom.

I've looked at a cross section of the relay and can't see that it matters which two top holes I use for oil and breather. Does anyone's experience disagree?

Let's see how rob's idea goes overnight:

@Colthebrummie That's a good idea too. I like it here. If all else fails I'll bribe the Mrs to help.

scottonthefen said:

@Colthebrummie That's a good idea too. I like it here. If all else fails I'll bribe the Mrs to help.

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You might need to Jack the front up so the steering is manageable but I guess it's up anyway if your working on the relay.
Col

Often wondered if it would be possible to fill from the bottom somehow and force the air out of the top. I've always found that I can only fill with a few drips at a time and It takes a day or two. I do it as a little fill in job around other chores / maintenance.

If you look at how its put together with the spring in the middle pushing the top and bottom split bearings up the tapers then the only pathway from top to bottom is through the splits in the bearings. If these are gummed up there's no way through for the oil. Makes sense
then to try something like diesel to flush out the sticky oil and open a way through, but I suspect the gaps sre still very small.

A good reason not to take it apart:
http://forums.roversnorth.com/showthread.php?16554-Steering-Relay-Rebuild-Guide

If you have the top arm of to get the oil in remove the top plate with the bottom arm on it cannot come upwards and bottom plate prevents it going downwards.
Takes some knocking shaft out when dismantling it does not fly apart till the lower bushings come through the casing.

I was just wondering how big the splits in the bushes were. The cross-section doesn't show it but the photos on that site do.. about 5mm?

I noticed this evening in the Haynes manual the cross-section seemed to show only one of the lower bolts is actually a drain hole. Your cross-section suggests the same. I had the whole bottom plate off to do the seal and gasket, so not an issue for me, but worth pointing to anyone reading this thread later..

And another thing while we're at it.. .. what does the spring do? It looks like it just pushes the split bushes up the two cones of the shaft until they won't move any further. I can't see that it's exerting any force on anything?

Land Raver said:

Often wondered if it would be possible to fill from the bottom somehow and force the air out of the top. I've always found that I can only fill with a few drips at a time and It takes a day or two. I do it as a little fill in job around other chores / maintenance.

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I change my relay oil once a year, take out the drain bolt, takes about 10 mins to drain, pump in a bit with the oil can to flush and it comes straight through. Takes about 10 mins to fill, fill to overflowing then waggle the steering a bit, repeat half a dozen times and its done. Whole job only takes about half and hour, think you may have a bit of a blockage.

The spring pushes the bushes apart automatically compensating for wear.

Extreedoc said:

The spring pushes the bushes apart automatically compensating for wear.

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If I understand that right, it's genius. I've been trying to think of another arrangement that didn't either wear fixed bushes over time and compromise your steering as they went, or need you to constantly jump out and oil the shaft in a tight housing with an oil can like a traction engine driver. And I can't. So spring loaded split bushes are A Clever Thing. Thanks Extreedoc!

The funnel overnight didn't work - EP90 all over the crossmember and dumb iron this morning, going in one hole and coming out the other. So it looks like those split bushes or something are blocked and I need to clear the airways (hopefully without taking it to bits! )

Cheers all,

I see you've got compressed air - good. You need to find a way to blast something like diesel through, from top to bottom to flush it out. One hole at the top and one at the bottom.

I think the splits will be very small, a few thou, so flushing it makes sense. Mine took the oil overnight (it still made a mess) but I think this is because it seems to have been in use most of its life so things are worn and leaky but seldom stuck or blocked.

rob1miles said:

I think the splits will be very small, a few thou, so flushing it makes sense. Mine took the oil overnight (it still made a mess) but I think this is because it seems to have been in use most of its life so things are worn and leaky but seldom stuck or blocked.

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Yeah. I don't doubt this will be a good way to fill it once I've cleared the blockage.