Starter motor woes on frosty mornings...

J

Jon

Guest

• Nov 21, 2005

• #1

Hi all,

For about 18months my 200tdi Defender 90 has had the occasional
starting problem.

When I turn the key the starter motor spins like a good 'un but the
engine doesnt turn over.

Often on the second attempt everything works as it should and I can
drive away.

Over the last week or so when we've been having the frosts it can
often take 8 - 10 attempts to get the thing to start.

It seems to have no problem starting when everything has warmed up.

Question - Whats wrong? It would appear that the starter cog isnt
flying along the starter motor spindle to make contact with the
flywheel???

I dont need to move the gearbox / flywheel to make it start so I dont
think I'm any teeth missing on the flywheel.

Is it possible that it will just need a clean and re-grease or is it
more likely a new starter motor.... if so price Richard please??

Also, Haynes Manual suggests access is easiest from the TOP... I think
from below may be easier. Any suggestions / advice please?

Thanks
Jon

 

E

EMB

Guest

• Nov 21, 2005

• #2

Jon wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> For about 18months my 200tdi Defender 90 has had the occasional
> starting problem.
>
> When I turn the key the starter motor spins like a good 'un but the
> engine doesnt turn over.
>

The one-way clutch in the pinion is faulty. New one-way clutch/pinion
required.

--
EMB

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Nov 21, 2005

• #3

In message <[email protected]>
Jon <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> For about 18months my 200tdi Defender 90 has had the occasional
> starting problem.
>
> When I turn the key the starter motor spins like a good 'un but the
> engine doesnt turn over.
>
> Often on the second attempt everything works as it should and I can
> drive away.
>
> Over the last week or so when we've been having the frosts it can
> often take 8 - 10 attempts to get the thing to start.
>
> It seems to have no problem starting when everything has warmed up.
>
> Question - Whats wrong? It would appear that the starter cog isnt
> flying along the starter motor spindle to make contact with the
> flywheel???
>
> I dont need to move the gearbox / flywheel to make it start so I dont
> think I'm any teeth missing on the flywheel.
>
> Is it possible that it will just need a clean and re-grease or is it
> more likely a new starter motor.... if so price Richard please??
>
> Also, Haynes Manual suggests access is easiest from the TOP... I think
> from below may be easier. Any suggestions / advice please?
>
> Thanks
> Jon
>

Sounds like the solenoid is not shifting the yoke to engage the
dog. A new starter is:

ERR5009 Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300Tdi - Bosch Type £91.65 inc VAT

but...

you could change the solenoid, as ever there are three types:

For Valeo starters:

RTC4978 Solenoid - Valeo Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi £34.07 inc

For Bosch:
STC1245R Solenoid - Starter Motor - 0-331-303-165 - 2.5D/TD/200Tdi/300Tdi
£26.79 inc VAT
or
STC3715 Solenoid - Bosch & Lucas M47 Starter Motor - 9-330-331-006 -
2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi £44.53 inc VAT

I get them out through the top, but they are real buggers - you
can see the bolts and they can be bloody tight. A large bucket of
language is a prerequisite.

Richard


--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

 

J

Jon

Guest

• Nov 21, 2005

• #4

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 23:27:03 +1300, EMB <[email protected]> wrote:

>Jon wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> For about 18months my 200tdi Defender 90 has had the occasional
>> starting problem.
>>
>> When I turn the key the starter motor spins like a good 'un but the
>> engine doesnt turn over.
>>
>
>The one-way clutch in the pinion is faulty. New one-way clutch/pinion
>required.

EMB, thanks. Is the One-way clutch the same as the solenoid that
Richard talks about in his reply?

Jon

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Nov 21, 2005

• #5

In message <eec43ccd4d%[email protected]>
beamendsltd <[email protected]> wrote:

> In message <[email protected]>
> Jon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > For about 18months my 200tdi Defender 90 has had the occasional
> > starting problem.
> >
> > When I turn the key the starter motor spins like a good 'un but the
> > engine doesnt turn over.
> >
> > Often on the second attempt everything works as it should and I can
> > drive away.
> >
> > Over the last week or so when we've been having the frosts it can
> > often take 8 - 10 attempts to get the thing to start.
> >
> > It seems to have no problem starting when everything has warmed up.
> >
> > Question - Whats wrong? It would appear that the starter cog isnt
> > flying along the starter motor spindle to make contact with the
> > flywheel???
> >
> > I dont need to move the gearbox / flywheel to make it start so I dont
> > think I'm any teeth missing on the flywheel.
> >
> > Is it possible that it will just need a clean and re-grease or is it
> > more likely a new starter motor.... if so price Richard please??
> >
> > Also, Haynes Manual suggests access is easiest from the TOP... I think
> > from below may be easier. Any suggestions / advice please?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Jon
> >
>
> Sounds like the solenoid is not shifting the yoke to engage the
> dog. A new starter is:
>
> ERR5009 Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300Tdi - Bosch Type £91.65 inc VAT
>
> but...
>
> you could change the solenoid, as ever there are three types:
>
> For Valeo starters:
>
> RTC4978 Solenoid - Valeo Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi £34.07 inc
>
> For Bosch:
> STC1245R Solenoid - Starter Motor - 0-331-303-165 - 2.5D/TD/200Tdi/300Tdi
> £26.79 inc VAT
> or
> STC3715 Solenoid - Bosch & Lucas M47 Starter Motor - 9-330-331-006 -
> 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi £44.53 inc VAT
>
> I get them out through the top, but they are real buggers - you
> can see the bolts and they can be bloody tight. A large bucket of
> language is a prerequisite.
>
> Richard
>
>

oops - you *can't* see the bolts.......

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

 

J

Jon

Guest

• Nov 21, 2005

• #6

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:33:33 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In message <[email protected]>
> Jon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> For about 18months my 200tdi Defender 90 has had the occasional
>> starting problem.
>>
>> When I turn the key the starter motor spins like a good 'un but the
>> engine doesnt turn over.
>>
>> Often on the second attempt everything works as it should and I can
>> drive away.
>>
>> Over the last week or so when we've been having the frosts it can
>> often take 8 - 10 attempts to get the thing to start.
>>
>> It seems to have no problem starting when everything has warmed up.
>>
>> Question - Whats wrong? It would appear that the starter cog isnt
>> flying along the starter motor spindle to make contact with the
>> flywheel???
>>
>> I dont need to move the gearbox / flywheel to make it start so I dont
>> think I'm any teeth missing on the flywheel.
>>
>> Is it possible that it will just need a clean and re-grease or is it
>> more likely a new starter motor.... if so price Richard please??
>>
>> Also, Haynes Manual suggests access is easiest from the TOP... I think
>> from below may be easier. Any suggestions / advice please?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Jon
>>
>
>Sounds like the solenoid is not shifting the yoke to engage the
>dog. A new starter is:
>
>ERR5009 Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300Tdi - Bosch Type £91.65 inc VAT
>
>but...
>
>you could change the solenoid, as ever there are three types:
>
>For Valeo starters:
>
>RTC4978 Solenoid - Valeo Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi £34.07 inc
>
>For Bosch:
>STC1245R Solenoid - Starter Motor - 0-331-303-165 - 2.5D/TD/200Tdi/300Tdi
> £26.79 inc VAT
>or
>STC3715 Solenoid - Bosch & Lucas M47 Starter Motor - 9-330-331-006 -
> 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi £44.53 inc VAT
>
>I get them out through the top, but they are real buggers - you
>can see the bolts and they can be bloody tight. A large bucket of
>language is a prerequisite.
>
>Richard


Richard,
Thanks for above. When you remove them from above does anything need
to come off to gain access or do you just work within the confines of
the space available?

Also, how do I tell which Solenoid / Starter I have - Can I go off
chassis numbers or do they all have distinguishing marks / shapes?

Thanks
Jon

 

J

Jon

Guest

• Nov 21, 2005

• #7

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:01:54 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In message <eec43ccd4d%[email protected]>
> beamendsltd <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> In message <[email protected]>
>> Jon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > For about 18months my 200tdi Defender 90 has had the occasional
>> > starting problem.
>> >
>> > When I turn the key the starter motor spins like a good 'un but the
>> > engine doesnt turn over.
>> >
>> > Often on the second attempt everything works as it should and I can
>> > drive away.
>> >
>> > Over the last week or so when we've been having the frosts it can
>> > often take 8 - 10 attempts to get the thing to start.
>> >
>> > It seems to have no problem starting when everything has warmed up.
>> >
>> > Question - Whats wrong? It would appear that the starter cog isnt
>> > flying along the starter motor spindle to make contact with the
>> > flywheel???
>> >
>> > I dont need to move the gearbox / flywheel to make it start so I dont
>> > think I'm any teeth missing on the flywheel.
>> >
>> > Is it possible that it will just need a clean and re-grease or is it
>> > more likely a new starter motor.... if so price Richard please??
>> >
>> > Also, Haynes Manual suggests access is easiest from the TOP... I think
>> > from below may be easier. Any suggestions / advice please?
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > Jon
>> >
>>
>> Sounds like the solenoid is not shifting the yoke to engage the
>> dog. A new starter is:
>>
>> ERR5009 Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300Tdi - Bosch Type £91.65 inc VAT
>>
>> but...
>>
>> you could change the solenoid, as ever there are three types:
>>
>> For Valeo starters:
>>
>> RTC4978 Solenoid - Valeo Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi £34.07 inc
>>
>> For Bosch:
>> STC1245R Solenoid - Starter Motor - 0-331-303-165 - 2.5D/TD/200Tdi/300Tdi
>> £26.79 inc VAT
>> or
>> STC3715 Solenoid - Bosch & Lucas M47 Starter Motor - 9-330-331-006 -
>> 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi £44.53 inc VAT
>>
>> I get them out through the top, but they are real buggers - you
>> can see the bolts and they can be bloody tight. A large bucket of
>> language is a prerequisite.
>>
>> Richard
>>
>>
>
>oops - you *can't* see the bolts.......

Does this mean that access is possible but you cant see what your
aiming at or they arent accessible from above??

Jon

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Nov 21, 2005

• #8

In message <[email protected]>
Jon <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:33:33 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >In message <[email protected]>
> > Jon <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> For about 18months my 200tdi Defender 90 has had the occasional
> >> starting problem.
> >>
> >> When I turn the key the starter motor spins like a good 'un but the
> >> engine doesnt turn over.
> >>
> >> Often on the second attempt everything works as it should and I can
> >> drive away.
> >>
> >> Over the last week or so when we've been having the frosts it can
> >> often take 8 - 10 attempts to get the thing to start.
> >>
> >> It seems to have no problem starting when everything has warmed up.
> >>
> >> Question - Whats wrong? It would appear that the starter cog isnt
> >> flying along the starter motor spindle to make contact with the
> >> flywheel???
> >>
> >> I dont need to move the gearbox / flywheel to make it start so I dont
> >> think I'm any teeth missing on the flywheel.
> >>
> >> Is it possible that it will just need a clean and re-grease or is it
> >> more likely a new starter motor.... if so price Richard please??
> >>
> >> Also, Haynes Manual suggests access is easiest from the TOP... I think
> >> from below may be easier. Any suggestions / advice please?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Jon
> >>
> >
> >Sounds like the solenoid is not shifting the yoke to engage the
> >dog. A new starter is:
> >
> >ERR5009 Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300Tdi - Bosch Type £91.65 inc VAT
> >
> >but...
> >
> >you could change the solenoid, as ever there are three types:
> >
> >For Valeo starters:
> >
> >RTC4978 Solenoid - Valeo Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi £34.07 inc
> >
> >For Bosch:
> >STC1245R Solenoid - Starter Motor - 0-331-303-165 - 2.5D/TD/200Tdi/300Tdi
> > £26.79 inc VAT
> >or
> >STC3715 Solenoid - Bosch & Lucas M47 Starter Motor - 9-330-331-006 -
> > 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi £44.53 inc VAT
> >
> >I get them out through the top, but they are real buggers - you
> >can see the bolts and they can be bloody tight. A large bucket of
> >language is a prerequisite.
> >
> >Richard
>
>
> Richard,
> Thanks for above. When you remove them from above does anything need
> to come off to gain access or do you just work within the confines of
> the space available?
>

Nothing special - the turbo heat shield can be a bit in the way. Dropping
the down pipe may make things easier.

> Also, how do I tell which Solenoid / Starter I have - Can I go off
> chassis numbers or do they all have distinguishing marks / shapes?
>

They swapped about quite a lot during production, so it's really a
case of take it off and have a look at works plates - if they are
still there. If I remember right, the Valeo on has a sort of L-ish
shaped bracket on the back. the Bosch/Lucas don't.

> Thanks
> Jon

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Nov 21, 2005

• #9

In message <[email protected]>
Jon <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:01:54 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >In message <eec43ccd4d%[email protected]>
> > beamendsltd <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> In message <[email protected]>
> >> Jon <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi all,
> >> >
> >> > For about 18months my 200tdi Defender 90 has had the occasional
> >> > starting problem.
> >> >
> >> > When I turn the key the starter motor spins like a good 'un but the
> >> > engine doesnt turn over.
> >> >
> >> > Often on the second attempt everything works as it should and I can
> >> > drive away.
> >> >
> >> > Over the last week or so when we've been having the frosts it can
> >> > often take 8 - 10 attempts to get the thing to start.
> >> >
> >> > It seems to have no problem starting when everything has warmed up.
> >> >
> >> > Question - Whats wrong? It would appear that the starter cog isnt
> >> > flying along the starter motor spindle to make contact with the
> >> > flywheel???
> >> >
> >> > I dont need to move the gearbox / flywheel to make it start so I dont
> >> > think I'm any teeth missing on the flywheel.
> >> >
> >> > Is it possible that it will just need a clean and re-grease or is it
> >> > more likely a new starter motor.... if so price Richard please??
> >> >
> >> > Also, Haynes Manual suggests access is easiest from the TOP... I think
> >> > from below may be easier. Any suggestions / advice please?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks
> >> > Jon
> >> >
> >>
> >> Sounds like the solenoid is not shifting the yoke to engage the
> >> dog. A new starter is:
> >>
> >> ERR5009 Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300Tdi - Bosch Type £91.65 inc VAT
> >>
> >> but...
> >>
> >> you could change the solenoid, as ever there are three types:
> >>
> >> For Valeo starters:
> >>
> >> RTC4978 Solenoid - Valeo Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi £34.07 inc
> >>
> >> For Bosch:
> >> STC1245R Solenoid - Starter Motor - 0-331-303-165 - 2.5D/TD/200Tdi/300Tdi
> >> £26.79 inc VAT
> >> or
> >> STC3715 Solenoid - Bosch & Lucas M47 Starter Motor - 9-330-331-006 -
> >> 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi £44.53 inc VAT
> >>
> >> I get them out through the top, but they are real buggers - you
> >> can see the bolts and they can be bloody tight. A large bucket of
> >> language is a prerequisite.
> >>
> >> Richard
> >>
> >>
> >
> >oops - you *can't* see the bolts.......
>
> Does this mean that access is possible but you cant see what your
> aiming at or they arent accessible from above??
>
> Jon
>

It's the former - you have to do at least one by feel.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

 

J

Jon

Guest

• Nov 21, 2005

• #10

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:25:08 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In message <[email protected]>
> Jon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:33:33 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >In message <[email protected]>
>> > Jon <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> For about 18months my 200tdi Defender 90 has had the occasional
>> >> starting problem.
>> >>
>> >> When I turn the key the starter motor spins like a good 'un but the
>> >> engine doesnt turn over.
>> >>
>> >> Often on the second attempt everything works as it should and I can
>> >> drive away.
>> >>
>> >> Over the last week or so when we've been having the frosts it can
>> >> often take 8 - 10 attempts to get the thing to start.
>> >>
>> >> It seems to have no problem starting when everything has warmed up.
>> >>
>> >> Question - Whats wrong? It would appear that the starter cog isnt
>> >> flying along the starter motor spindle to make contact with the
>> >> flywheel???
>> >>
>> >> I dont need to move the gearbox / flywheel to make it start so I dont
>> >> think I'm any teeth missing on the flywheel.
>> >>
>> >> Is it possible that it will just need a clean and re-grease or is it
>> >> more likely a new starter motor.... if so price Richard please??
>> >>
>> >> Also, Haynes Manual suggests access is easiest from the TOP... I think
>> >> from below may be easier. Any suggestions / advice please?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks
>> >> Jon
>> >>
>> >
>> >Sounds like the solenoid is not shifting the yoke to engage the
>> >dog. A new starter is:
>> >
>> >ERR5009 Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300Tdi - Bosch Type £91.65 inc VAT
>> >
>> >but...
>> >
>> >you could change the solenoid, as ever there are three types:
>> >
>> >For Valeo starters:
>> >
>> >RTC4978 Solenoid - Valeo Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi £34.07 inc
>> >
>> >For Bosch:
>> >STC1245R Solenoid - Starter Motor - 0-331-303-165 - 2.5D/TD/200Tdi/300Tdi
>> > £26.79 inc VAT
>> >or
>> >STC3715 Solenoid - Bosch & Lucas M47 Starter Motor - 9-330-331-006 -
>> > 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi £44.53 inc VAT
>> >
>> >I get them out through the top, but they are real buggers - you
>> >can see the bolts and they can be bloody tight. A large bucket of
>> >language is a prerequisite.
>> >
>> >Richard
>>
>>
>> Richard,
>> Thanks for above. When you remove them from above does anything need
>> to come off to gain access or do you just work within the confines of
>> the space available?
>>
>
>Nothing special - the turbo heat shield can be a bit in the way. Dropping
>the down pipe may make things easier.
>
>> Also, how do I tell which Solenoid / Starter I have - Can I go off
>> chassis numbers or do they all have distinguishing marks / shapes?
>>
>
>They swapped about quite a lot during production, so it's really a
>case of take it off and have a look at works plates - if they are
>still there. If I remember right, the Valeo on has a sort of L-ish
>shaped bracket on the back. the Bosch/Lucas don't.
>
Cool. I'll set about it one night this week and let you know how i
get on / whatever I need.


>> Thanks
>> Jon
>
>Richard

 

D

Dave

Guest

• Nov 21, 2005

• #11

I've only had my Landy for 9 months (defender 110 1998 300 tdi) so this
is the first winter I've had to survive in it. So far its been pretty
good when starting. The only thing is that initially I have to rev the
engine once its started to get the battery light to go out (its been
doing this for the majority or the time I've had it), and I have
noticed that on some of the colder mornings the engine starts within a
couple of turns, but seems to turn over much slower than its does when
it was warmer. Is this a sign of a problem coming with the battery, or
is it just the very cold oil giving more resistance.

Thanks
David

 

P

puffernutter

Guest

• Nov 21, 2005

• #12

Dave wrote:
> I've only had my Landy for 9 months (defender 110 1998 300 tdi) so this
> is the first winter I've had to survive in it. So far its been pretty
> good when starting. The only thing is that initially I have to rev the
> engine once its started to get the battery light to go out (its been
> doing this for the majority or the time I've had it), and I have
> noticed that on some of the colder mornings the engine starts within a
> couple of turns, but seems to turn over much slower than its does when
> it was warmer. Is this a sign of a problem coming with the battery, or
> is it just the very cold oil giving more resistance.
>
> Thanks
> David

I shall be most interested in the response as I have a similar
situation.

I also notice that in the pitch dark I can just see feint red glow from
the alternator warning light (that's generally with the headlights,
blower fan and heated rear window on!) I was concerend that either my
alternator was on the way out, or not man enough for the job.

My situation (on starting) is complicated by the fact that I'm running
on a partial veggie mixture at the moment (about 70/30 veggie to
diesel). I am planning on fitting a pre-heater and a two tank
conversion when I can get around to sourcing the bits!

Cheers

Peter

1990 110 CSW (Reggie the Veggie)
1974 Hillman Imp

 

B

bones

Guest

• Nov 21, 2005

• #13

"Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:25:08 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>In message <[email protected]>
>> Jon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:33:33 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> >In message <[email protected]>
>>> > Jon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Hi all,
>>> >>
>>> >> For about 18months my 200tdi Defender 90 has had the occasional
>>> >> starting problem.
>>> >>
>>> >> When I turn the key the starter motor spins like a good 'un but the
>>> >> engine doesnt turn over.
>>> >>
>>> >> Often on the second attempt everything works as it should and I can
>>> >> drive away.
>>> >>
>>> >> Over the last week or so when we've been having the frosts it can
>>> >> often take 8 - 10 attempts to get the thing to start.
>>> >>
>>> >> It seems to have no problem starting when everything has warmed up.
>>> >>
>>> >> Question - Whats wrong? It would appear that the starter cog isnt
>>> >> flying along the starter motor spindle to make contact with the
>>> >> flywheel???
>>> >>
>>> >> I dont need to move the gearbox / flywheel to make it start so I dont
>>> >> think I'm any teeth missing on the flywheel.
>>> >>
>>> >> Is it possible that it will just need a clean and re-grease or is it
>>> >> more likely a new starter motor.... if so price Richard please??
>>> >>
>>> >> Also, Haynes Manual suggests access is easiest from the TOP... I
>>> >> think
>>> >> from below may be easier. Any suggestions / advice please?
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks
>>> >> Jon
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >Sounds like the solenoid is not shifting the yoke to engage the
>>> >dog. A new starter is:
>>> >
>>> >ERR5009 Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300Tdi - Bosch Type £91.65 inc
>>> >VAT
>>> >
>>> >but...
>>> >
>>> >you could change the solenoid, as ever there are three types:
>>> >
>>> >For Valeo starters:
>>> >
>>> >RTC4978 Solenoid - Valeo Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi £34.07 inc
>>> >
>>> >For Bosch:
>>> >STC1245R Solenoid - Starter Motor - 0-331-303-165 -
>>> >2.5D/TD/200Tdi/300Tdi
>>> > £26.79 inc VAT
>>> >or
>>> >STC3715 Solenoid - Bosch & Lucas M47 Starter Motor - 9-330-331-006 -
>>> > 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi £44.53 inc VAT
>>> >
>>> >I get them out through the top, but they are real buggers - you
>>> >can see the bolts and they can be bloody tight. A large bucket of
>>> >language is a prerequisite.
>>> >
>>> >Richard
>>>
>>>
>>> Richard,
>>> Thanks for above. When you remove them from above does anything need
>>> to come off to gain access or do you just work within the confines of
>>> the space available?
>>>
>>
>>Nothing special - the turbo heat shield can be a bit in the way. Dropping
>>the down pipe may make things easier.
>>
>>> Also, how do I tell which Solenoid / Starter I have - Can I go off
>>> chassis numbers or do they all have distinguishing marks / shapes?
>>>
>>
>>They swapped about quite a lot during production, so it's really a
>>case of take it off and have a look at works plates - if they are
>>still there. If I remember right, the Valeo on has a sort of L-ish
>>shaped bracket on the back. the Bosch/Lucas don't.
>>
> Cool. I'll set about it one night this week and let you know how i
> get on / whatever I need.
>
>
>>> Thanks
>>> Jon
>>
>>Richard
>

I have a Valeo in front of me at the moment which i need to fit this week.
Just remember to disconnect the battery before removal(a lot of people
forget).
You may have to reinstall your radio code and reset your alarm if you have
them when refitting.
When fitting your replacement,Check it's the same as the one being
removed,teeth on pinion,mounting brackets,bolt holes etc.
Check the old unit for a bluey colour on the starter teeth,As this is a sign
of a faulty ignition switch.
Check the flywheel,ring gear for worn teeth which would cause the starter to
run in mesh.
And make sure all the earthing points are clean and rust free and tight.
hth.

 

J

Jon

Guest

• Nov 21, 2005

• #14

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:45:49 -0000, "bones"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Jon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:25:08 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>In message <[email protected]>
>>> Jon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:33:33 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >In message <[email protected]>
>>>> > Jon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Hi all,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> For about 18months my 200tdi Defender 90 has had the occasional
>>>> >> starting problem.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> When I turn the key the starter motor spins like a good 'un but the
>>>> >> engine doesnt turn over.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Often on the second attempt everything works as it should and I can
>>>> >> drive away.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Over the last week or so when we've been having the frosts it can
>>>> >> often take 8 - 10 attempts to get the thing to start.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> It seems to have no problem starting when everything has warmed up.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Question - Whats wrong? It would appear that the starter cog isnt
>>>> >> flying along the starter motor spindle to make contact with the
>>>> >> flywheel???
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I dont need to move the gearbox / flywheel to make it start so I dont
>>>> >> think I'm any teeth missing on the flywheel.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Is it possible that it will just need a clean and re-grease or is it
>>>> >> more likely a new starter motor.... if so price Richard please??
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Also, Haynes Manual suggests access is easiest from the TOP... I
>>>> >> think
>>>> >> from below may be easier. Any suggestions / advice please?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thanks
>>>> >> Jon
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >Sounds like the solenoid is not shifting the yoke to engage the
>>>> >dog. A new starter is:
>>>> >
>>>> >ERR5009 Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300Tdi - Bosch Type £91.65 inc
>>>> >VAT
>>>> >
>>>> >but...
>>>> >
>>>> >you could change the solenoid, as ever there are three types:
>>>> >
>>>> >For Valeo starters:
>>>> >
>>>> >RTC4978 Solenoid - Valeo Starter Motor - 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi £34.07 inc
>>>> >
>>>> >For Bosch:
>>>> >STC1245R Solenoid - Starter Motor - 0-331-303-165 -
>>>> >2.5D/TD/200Tdi/300Tdi
>>>> > £26.79 inc VAT
>>>> >or
>>>> >STC3715 Solenoid - Bosch & Lucas M47 Starter Motor - 9-330-331-006 -
>>>> > 2.5D/TD/200/300 Tdi £44.53 inc VAT
>>>> >
>>>> >I get them out through the top, but they are real buggers - you
>>>> >can see the bolts and they can be bloody tight. A large bucket of
>>>> >language is a prerequisite.
>>>> >
>>>> >Richard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Richard,
>>>> Thanks for above. When you remove them from above does anything need
>>>> to come off to gain access or do you just work within the confines of
>>>> the space available?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Nothing special - the turbo heat shield can be a bit in the way. Dropping
>>>the down pipe may make things easier.
>>>
>>>> Also, how do I tell which Solenoid / Starter I have - Can I go off
>>>> chassis numbers or do they all have distinguishing marks / shapes?
>>>>
>>>
>>>They swapped about quite a lot during production, so it's really a
>>>case of take it off and have a look at works plates - if they are
>>>still there. If I remember right, the Valeo on has a sort of L-ish
>>>shaped bracket on the back. the Bosch/Lucas don't.
>>>
>> Cool. I'll set about it one night this week and let you know how i
>> get on / whatever I need.
>>
>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Jon
>>>
>>>Richard
>>
>
>I have a Valeo in front of me at the moment which i need to fit this week.
>Just remember to disconnect the battery before removal(a lot of people
>forget).
>You may have to reinstall your radio code and reset your alarm if you have
>them when refitting.
>When fitting your replacement,Check it's the same as the one being
>removed,teeth on pinion,mounting brackets,bolt holes etc.
>Check the old unit for a bluey colour on the starter teeth,As this is a sign
>of a faulty ignition switch.
>Check the flywheel,ring gear for worn teeth which would cause the starter to
>run in mesh.
>And make sure all the earthing points are clean and rust free and tight.
>hth.
>

thanks. I'll bear this in mond.
Jon

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Nov 21, 2005

• #15

In message <[email protected]>
"Dave" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I've only had my Landy for 9 months (defender 110 1998 300 tdi) so this
> is the first winter I've had to survive in it. So far its been pretty
> good when starting. The only thing is that initially I have to rev the
> engine once its started to get the battery light to go out (its been
> doing this for the majority or the time I've had it), and I have
> noticed that on some of the colder mornings the engine starts within a
> couple of turns, but seems to turn over much slower than its does when
> it was warmer. Is this a sign of a problem coming with the battery, or
> is it just the very cold oil giving more resistance.
>
> Thanks
> David
>

First last - yes, there is an x squared relationship between
current required to turn an engine and the temperature - at -5'C
it takes something like 10 times more energy that at +5'C, so
any weaknesses will make themselves pretty obvious. I guess that
at least 50% of slow starting problems on LR's are related to bad/dirty
earths rather than the battery. Next time it's cold, put a jump lead
from battery -ve to the block and see if it starts better. If so,
the battery is fine (also remember that lots of short trips will give
it a hammering in cold weather - harder starting, lights, heated
rear window etc).

The battery light not going out is most likely due to the alternator
belt slipping - it could be slack, it could be somethings making it wet
or it could just be old age has made the contact surface shiney and it
just take a min to get a grip. It could also indicate that the diodes
in the alternator are not happy. It would certainly be worth having a
look to see if there is anything obvious, as if something does fail it
will be at the most inconvenient time possible.

The following post says his light is always dimly on - again it could be
alternator (though they usual fail completely pretty quickly after giving
such a "warning"), but sounds more like a slipping belt (they don't
necesserily squeal when slipping) - indeed mine did it on Saturday,
due to a small leak from the water pump (which I'd known about for
months) truning into a rather bigger leak..... I don't know what the
world is comming to, a water pump that only lasts 248,000 miles.

Richard


--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

 

R

rads

Guest

• Nov 21, 2005

• #16

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:45:49 -0000, "bones"
<snip>

>Check the old unit for a bluey colour on the starter teeth,As this is a sign
>of a faulty ignition switch.
<Curious>

What causes blueing when ignition switch is faulty?

David

 

D

Dave

Guest

• Nov 21, 2005

• #17

Thanks Richard. Will have a look and see whats what next time I do a
really cold start.

David

 

B

bones

Guest

• Nov 21, 2005

• #18

"rads" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:45:49 -0000, "bones"
> <snip>
>
>>Check the old unit for a bluey colour on the starter teeth,As this is a
>>sign
>>of a faulty ignition switch.
> <Curious>
>
> What causes blueing when ignition switch is faulty?
>
> David
>
>

It's the drive overheating if the starter is just spinning in mesh,Caused by
a sticking or faulty ignition switch.Or starter relay problem.

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Nov 21, 2005

• #19

On or around Mon, 21 Nov 2005 13:56:47 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>The following post says his light is always dimly on - again it could be
>alternator (though they usual fail completely pretty quickly after giving
>such a "warning"), but sounds more like a slipping belt (they don't
>necesserily squeal when slipping) - indeed mine did it on Saturday,
>due to a small leak from the water pump (which I'd known about for
>months) truning into a rather bigger leak..... I don't know what the
>world is comming to, a water pump that only lasts 248,000 miles.

bah. replacement one on the 300 TDi did about 10 months and maybe 10K
miles. I've sent it back.

back to alternator... light always on dimly is a sign of a failing diode
set, ISTR. light on dimly when there's a lot of electrical load but off
again without is more likely slipping belt.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Ask yourself whether you are happy, and you cease to be so."
John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873)

 

E

EMB

Guest

• Nov 21, 2005

• #20

Jon wrote:

> EMB, thanks. Is the One-way clutch the same as the solenoid that
> Richard talks about in his reply?

No it's not. Logic says that if the solenoid isn't working, then the
contacts do not close, so the starter acnnot spin over. However if the
solenoid works and the starter spins, then the pinion must be engaging
but not transmitting drive. The only thing that causes this is the
one-way clutch.




--
EMB