Started the axle strip down...

Of this here front Sailsbury axle on Morph. Interestingly LRS local non
franchised were less than keen to take it on. Legs have quoted between £500
and £750 depending on if in needed a Pinion and Crown wheel, only problem
being the expence and getting him there.

So today having finished contoring myself to put the new Air con pipe on the
Disco (LPG vaporisors in the way) , I finally plucked up the courage to take
a look at Morph.

The Diff pan came off simple enough, I was expecteding very stubborn bolts
here (I'll no doubt have to pay somewhere along the line!). Then I jacked up
the wheel and rotated the Diff and the noise still seemed to be coming from
the Pinion area with a definate rumble felt in the casing as the wheel was
rotated. All the teeth appear in good condition as good as you can check
visibly anyway.

I had a couple of goes at undoing the pinion flange nut.... here we go I
thought, nothing.... if anything all I was doing was causing Morph to rock
too and fro so I fabruicated myself a tool to hold the flange still and
bolted it to the flange the other end wedged against the ground, after a
little click the nut turned nicely... clearly not torqued up because this is
how you set the preload of the pinion bearings on reassembly. So quite
pleased with that progress I packed up for the day to fetch the mini-me's
from school .

Now that may not seem like alot of work but to behonest It's been haunting
me since I first figured out the Diff / bearings were suspect. Now
realisitically I recon on a part day per side of the axle to remove the
swivel seal, swivel pins, Track rod arms and then I'm ready to pull the old
diff out.

First I need to get a dial guage to check the backlash in the diff before
pulling it out too (NOTE TO SELF!).

I'll let you all know how I progress.

Lee D

Lee_D wrote:

>
> First I need to get a dial guage to check the backlash in the diff before
> pulling it out too (NOTE TO SELF!).

Can lend you one if you need it.

Steve

Steve Taylor <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz
funny about:
> Lee_D wrote:
>
>>
>> First I need to get a dial guage to check the backlash in the diff
>> before pulling it out too (NOTE TO SELF!).
>
> Can lend you one if you need it.
>
> Steve

Am I right i thinking I'll need the spreader too to get it out, not just put
it back? Could pick up the bits at the same time then when ready.

H'mmm I best look up these parts too save dawdleing

Lee

Lee_D wrote:

> Am I right i thinking I'll need the spreader too to get it out, not just put
> it back? Could pick up the bits at the same time then when ready.

Yes.

I have found some of the corpse of my late, lamented diff spreader. I'll
try and patch it up later, though we are recovering from the great storm
of Heywood MKII on Sunday (2-4" of water in cellar)

Steve

Steve Taylor <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz
funny about:
> Lee_D wrote:
>
>> Am I right i thinking I'll need the spreader too to get it out, not
>> just put it back? Could pick up the bits at the same time then when
>> ready.
>
> Yes.
>
> I have found some of the corpse of my late, lamented diff spreader.
> I'll try and patch it up later, though we are recovering from the
> great storm of Heywood MKII on Sunday (2-4" of water in cellar)
>
> Steve

I've got a Hippo if it'll help!

Lee

Lee_D <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz
funny about:
> Steve Taylor <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz
> funny about:
>> Lee_D wrote:
>>
>>> Am I right i thinking I'll need the spreader too to get it out, not
>>> just put it back? Could pick up the bits at the same time then when
>>> ready.
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> I have found some of the corpse of my late, lamented diff spreader.
>> I'll try and patch it up later, though we are recovering from the
>> great storm of Heywood MKII on Sunday (2-4" of water in cellar)
>>
>> Steve
>
> I've got a Hippo if it'll help!
>
> Lee

Diffs out, no need for the spreader, came out a treat and landed safely on a
caravan step with a couple of carpet mats to prevent any damage... unlikely
as the steps plastic. I way only going to pull the half shafts but carried
on.

I've now removed the Pinion and the pinion bearing seats from the diff case.
The face of the inner bearing has begun to disintergrate in one faily
substatial patch and another smaller patch begining. Odd given this bearing
is well lubricated but thats life. I just need to get the bearing off the
pinion and new one pressed on and we should fingers crossed be rumble free.
I can only hope!

Lee D

On or around Sat, 22 Jul 2006 17:53:08 +0100, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>Diffs out, no need for the spreader, came out a treat and landed safely on a
>caravan step with a couple of carpet mats to prevent any damage... unlikely
>as the steps plastic. I way only going to pull the half shafts but carried
>on.

in view of the way the axle works, I'd be a bit worried about the fact that
it didn't need spreading, meself. doesn't that mean it's not preloaded as
it should be?
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Too Busy: Your mind is like a motorway. Sometimes it can be jammed by
too much traffic. Avoid the jams by never using your mind on a
Bank Holiday weekend.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

Austin Shackles wrote:

> in view of the way the axle works, I'd be a bit worried about the fact that
> it didn't need spreading, meself. doesn't that mean it's not preloaded as
> it should be?

It does - but with new bearings everything will be different and some
judicious re-shimming will be required.

--
EMB

EMB <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
> Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> in view of the way the axle works, I'd be a bit worried about the
>> fact that it didn't need spreading, meself. doesn't that mean it's
>> not preloaded as it should be?
>
> It does - but with new bearings everything will be different and some
> judicious re-shimming will be required.

Think Shoehorning rather than falling on the floor. Certainly no where near
as tough as I'd anticipated

Lee D

Lee_D wrote:
>
> Think Shoehorning rather than falling on the floor. Certainly no where near
> as tough as I'd anticipated

Not really a surprise with a knackered bearing.


--
EMB

EMB wrote:

> Lee_D wrote:
>
>>
>> Think Shoehorning rather than falling on the floor. Certainly no where
>> near as tough as I'd anticipated
>
>
> Not really a surprise with a knackered bearing.

Except that Lee only reports the pinion bearings as having failed, I
think.

You're right though - there is or was something wrong with the diff.
support bearings either incorrectly adjusted initially, worn or the
cup seats in the hosuing worn or any combination of the three.

Dougal wrote:
> EMB wrote:
>
>> Lee_D wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Think Shoehorning rather than falling on the floor. Certainly no
>>> where near as tough as I'd anticipated
>>
>>
>>
>> Not really a surprise with a knackered bearing.
>
>
> Except that Lee only reports the pinion bearings as having failed, I think.
>
> You're right though - there is or was something wrong with the diff.
> support bearings either incorrectly adjusted initially, worn or the cup
> seats in the housing worn or any combination of the three.

Now that the wine's worn off ....

Another area of possible concern would be the diff. support bearing
cones having turned on the diff. housing. Check there, too.

The shims should have protected the housing from any rotation of the
diff. support bearing cups.

The pinion bearing damage you report sounds like fatigue. It could
have been initiated by debris getting rolled into the tracks. It's not
a lubrication issue: that looks very different.

Dougal <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> uttered summat worrerz
funny about:
> Now that the wine's worn off ....
>
> Another area of possible concern would be the diff. support bearing
> cones having turned on the diff. housing. Check there, too.
>
> The shims should have protected the housing from any rotation of the
> diff. support bearing cups.
>
> The pinion bearing damage you report sounds like fatigue. It could
> have been initiated by debris getting rolled into the tracks. It's not
> a lubrication issue: that looks very different.

I'm quite happy that the diff and case are fine.. the noise from the bearing
rumble was definately sourced at the failed bearing. I'll post the piccys
later, at the mo I'm in the middle of some study and just taking a breather.

Lee D

Lee_D wrote:

> Dougal <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> uttered summat worrerz
> funny about:
>
>>Now that the wine's worn off ....
>>
>>Another area of possible concern would be the diff. support bearing
>>cones having turned on the diff. housing. Check there, too.
>>
>>The shims should have protected the housing from any rotation of the
>>diff. support bearing cups.
>>
>>The pinion bearing damage you report sounds like fatigue. It could
>>have been initiated by debris getting rolled into the tracks. It's not
>>a lubrication issue: that looks very different.
>
> I'm quite happy that the diff and case are fine.. the noise from the bearing
> rumble was definately sourced at the failed bearing. I'll post the piccys
> later, at the mo I'm in the middle of some study and just taking a breather.
>
> Lee D

What is being suggested - helpfully I must add! - is that you
probablly have two problems:

The pinion bearing which caused you to open the axle up in the first
instance and the lack of diff. bearing support preload which resulted
in you being able to take the diff. out without stretching the case.

It may be a case that the diff. support bearing preload was never
right and if the diff case (where the bearing cone back faces seat),
axle housing (where the bearing cups seat - separated by shims) and
bearings themselves are OK this seems likely.

What we're suggesting, in the nicest possible way, is that having
sorted the pinion bearings you should also attend to the preload issue
on the diff. support bearings even though they weren't the source of
the rumble.

Dougal wrote:

> What we're suggesting, in the nicest possible way, is that having sorted
> the pinion bearings you should also attend to the preload issue on the
> diff. support bearings even though they weren't the source of the rumble.

Lee,

Yes, what he says is dead on. I'd worry too.

Steve

Steve Taylor <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz
funny about:
> Dougal wrote:
>
>> What we're suggesting, in the nicest possible way, is that having
>> sorted the pinion bearings you should also attend to the preload
>> issue on the diff. support bearings even though they weren't the
>> source of the rumble.
>
> Lee,
>
> Yes, what he says is dead on. I'd worry too.
>
> Steve

I stopped worrying when I realised I'd talked myself out of your axle/diff
rolling programme! Remember, i've seen the length of the gutters you made
for me remember, I reckon an Inch must be smaller up there ;-)

All concern duely noted and logic will be applied on replacement...

... so how many times should I hit the diff with a lump hammer before it fits
back in do you think?

;-)

Seriously appreciated!

Lee D

Lee_D wrote:

> I stopped worrying when I realised I'd talked myself out of your axle/diff
> rolling programme! Remember, i've seen the length of the gutters you made
> for me remember, I reckon an Inch must be smaller up there ;-)

Just rewmember the 'kers fitted my ambi - you of course have a weird
extra long one by all accounts....

Steve

Lee_D wrote:
> I stopped worrying when I realised I'd talked myself out of your axle/diff
> rolling programme!
I have a donor axle now...
Sure ???
Steve

steve <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
> Lee_D wrote:
>> I stopped worrying when I realised I'd talked myself out of your
>> axle/diff rolling programme!
> I have a donor axle now...
> Sure ???
> Steve

Report immediately to the nearest branch of Screwfix and ask for some Rivet
counters mouth wash.

What is the world coming to ;-)

Is that spreader looking any healthier for the refit with shimmed to take up
any slack?


Lee D

Lee_D wrote:

> .. so how many times should I hit the diff with a lump hammer before it fits
> back in do you think?
>
> ;-)

None - do it properly with a bunch of shims, a micrometer and a
spreader. The effort will be worth it in long term reliability.


--
EMB