Stage 1 conversion to disk brakes

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On or around Fri, 17 Feb 2006 20:18:02 +0000 (UTC), Simon Isaacs
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>specially as a cracked disc is an MOT failure......

with good reason, as a disc that breaks in service could kill you. I drive
around in various old heaps, but generally the brakes and tyres are OK.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 
On 2006-02-18, beamendsltd <[email protected]> wrote:

> Being serious, if you go off road in muddy/gritty conitions with
> drum brakes they really should be cleaned internally afterwards -
> well, that's the theory........

Indeed, which was my point, although I made it in a rather roundabout
manner.. Force of habit!

So that's another disadvantage to drums, having to clean inside the
bloody things after off-roading :-/

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:15:33 +0000, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On or around Fri, 17 Feb 2006 07:46:49 +1100, JD <jjd@NOSP_Mtpgi.com.au>
>enlightened us thusly:
>
>>I agree entirely. The only advantages of discs are that they have less
>>maintenance (self adjusting), and recover from water more rapidly, plus
>>they are easier and cheaper to overhaul. Discs invariably have boosters,
>>and if you find the pedal pressure is excessive on your drum brakes, add a
>>booster before you compare with discs.
>>But in satisfactory condition and properly adjusted, there is nothing wrong
>>with series brakes.
>
>
>You missed the one about discs cooling better - which AIUI is the main
>advantage.

Unfortunatly they also heat up much quicker than drum brakes in the
first place. And when they're too hot, boy, are you f**ked.

Alex
 
Ian Rawlings wrote:

> So that's another disadvantage to drums, having to clean inside the
> bloody things after off-roading :-/

Drill a couple of holes in the backing plate and just hose them out with
a high-pressure hose. No disassembly required.


--
EMB
 
On or around Sat, 18 Feb 2006 20:17:48 +0000, Alex
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:15:33 +0000, Austin Shackles
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On or around Fri, 17 Feb 2006 07:46:49 +1100, JD <jjd@NOSP_Mtpgi.com.au>
>>enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>>I agree entirely. The only advantages of discs are that they have less
>>>maintenance (self adjusting), and recover from water more rapidly, plus
>>>they are easier and cheaper to overhaul. Discs invariably have boosters,
>>>and if you find the pedal pressure is excessive on your drum brakes, add a
>>>booster before you compare with discs.
>>>But in satisfactory condition and properly adjusted, there is nothing wrong
>>>with series brakes.
>>
>>
>>You missed the one about discs cooling better - which AIUI is the main
>>advantage.
>
>Unfortunatly they also heat up much quicker than drum brakes in the
>first place. And when they're too hot, boy, are you f**ked.

only, probably, 'cos of greater mass to heat in the drum. If you once get a
drum hot enough to fade, it's gonna take a while to cool down again and may
even put the linings on fire.

Interestingly, just fitted EBC green pads to the front of the minibus.
initial bite is not quite as impressive as standard ones in good condition
(although they may not be fully bedded in yet) but once they warm up a bit
they stop pretty impressively. considerably more actual stopping power than
the rather iffy looking standard pads I removed from it, which were not more
than half worn.


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
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....and Austin Shackles spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...

>>> You missed the one about discs cooling better - which AIUI is the
>>> main advantage.
>>
>> Unfortunatly they also heat up much quicker than drum brakes in the
>> first place. And when they're too hot, boy, are you f**ked.
>
> only, probably, 'cos of greater mass to heat in the drum. If you
> once get a drum hot enough to fade, it's gonna take a while to cool
> down again and may even put the linings on fire.

Also, when discs/drums heat up, they expand. With discs, this tends to
increase the pressure of the pads on the discs. With drums, they are
expanding away from the shoes. I don't know if this makes much difference
in the real world (tm) but it's a factor in favour of disks from a
theoretical viewpoint.

--
Rich
==============================

There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary
and those who don't.


 
Richard Brookman <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny
about:
> Also, when discs/drums heat up, they expand. With discs, this tends
> to increase the pressure of the pads on the discs. With drums, they
> are expanding away from the shoes. I don't know if this makes much
> difference in the real world (tm) but it's a factor in favour of
> disks from a theoretical viewpoint.

There is definately a trend emerging here. Most of the Welsh contingent are
well versed in brake fade. Austin is still looking for the mecca of pads and
our last trip through Wales with the Caravan to Bass camp left me cursing
Welsh mountains.

It's got to be the mountains and nowt to do with the amount of beer and
sausages. Series Brakes are fine in these here parts ;-)

Lee
--
www.lrproject.com



 
Lee Hi,

Here in Greece we also tend to prefer disk brakes since our country is
extremely hilly and mountaineous road full of inclines and turns are the
standard with very scarce straight and level roads.

In addition to the inclines and road tweasts you have to also account for
the legendary Greek summer heat (ambient temperatures of about 40 to 42
degrees Celsius being a standard during mid July to mid September.

So fade resisting brakes are required for sure.

Take care
Pantelis


"Lee_D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Richard Brookman <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny
> about:
> > Also, when discs/drums heat up, they expand. With discs, this tends
> > to increase the pressure of the pads on the discs. With drums, they
> > are expanding away from the shoes. I don't know if this makes much
> > difference in the real world (tm) but it's a factor in favour of
> > disks from a theoretical viewpoint.
>
> There is definately a trend emerging here. Most of the Welsh contingent
are
> well versed in brake fade. Austin is still looking for the mecca of pads
and
> our last trip through Wales with the Caravan to Bass camp left me cursing
> Welsh mountains.
>
> It's got to be the mountains and nowt to do with the amount of beer and
> sausages. Series Brakes are fine in these here parts ;-)
>
> Lee
> --
> www.lrproject.com
>
>
>


 
On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 00:01:28 -0000, Lee_D wrote:

> There is definately a trend emerging here. Most of the Welsh contingent
> are well versed in brake fade.

Well I have yet to see water supplies at the top of Welsh passes for
vehicles to top up their brake cooling tanks. Saw this in China. Every
truck and bus would stop, fill up the large roof mounted tank and then
leave two trickles of water behind them as they decended the pass. These
where long passes though 20 to 30 miles of steady down, 2nd or 3rd gear
grind going up...

Having faded the brakes on the Mondeo going down Hartside I'm now use the
waggly lever thing in the middle a bit more to take the load of the
brakes of what ever I'm driving.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
On or around Sun, 19 Feb 2006 00:01:28 -0000, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Richard Brookman <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny
>about:
>> Also, when discs/drums heat up, they expand. With discs, this tends
>> to increase the pressure of the pads on the discs. With drums, they
>> are expanding away from the shoes. I don't know if this makes much
>> difference in the real world (tm) but it's a factor in favour of
>> disks from a theoretical viewpoint.
>
>There is definately a trend emerging here. Most of the Welsh contingent are
>well versed in brake fade. Austin is still looking for the mecca of pads and
>our last trip through Wales with the Caravan to Bass camp left me cursing
>Welsh mountains.
>
>It's got to be the mountains and nowt to do with the amount of beer and
>sausages. Series Brakes are fine in these here parts ;-)

gotta say, the only things I've faded brakes on are suboptimal in some way,
like badly worn and thus thin discs, or siezed calipers causing excess drag
and therefore heat.

The minibus brakes weren't fading, they were just not as good as I'd like.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"There is plenty of time to win this game, and to thrash the Spaniards
too" Sir Francis Drake (1540? - 1596) Attr. saying when the Armarda was
sighted, 20th July 1588
 
On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 19:05:39 +0000, Austin Shackles wrote:

> gotta say, the only things I've faded brakes on are suboptimal in some
> way, like badly worn and thus thin discs, or siezed calipers causing
> excess drag and therefore heat.

Another car had a siezed caliper, so much so that you couldn't get the
car above 30mph... Unfortunately I had to get somewhere and had to stop
about every 10 mins for that brake to cool down. The red glow from the
disc the first time I stopped was a little alarming, no sign of fade
though. Yes the other three wheels where normal but remember the drag was
stopping the car going above 30...

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 17:07:30 +0000, Ian Rawlings
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On the way home his brakes were shot, and he found that the shoes were
>completely screwed when he took the drums off. He reckons they were
>about half-worn when he'd started out that morning.

My mate can beat that. I think we did the pads during the week and
then went offroading the next weekend. It started grinding the next
day and we found that he worn the pads right down to the metal.

The pads came from paddocks and they replaced them for free when we
next went!

 
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