software for designing a wiring loom

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T

Tom Woods

Guest
I'm rewiring the 101 and i'm trying to plan my wiring loom before i
start rather than doing it all ad-hoc.
I'm hoping that this way i can order enough bits of differently
coloured wire such that i can tell what is what later - and not over
order too much and spend all my cash!.

Can anybody recommend some software that is free (or very cheap) that
i can use to plan my wiring.

I'd basically like it to keep all my lines tidy and sort out the
labelling.

I've been googling but i cant seem to find anything good.

The best ive got is a bit of GPL software called 'Dia', which works -
but it is really hard to get all the wires tidy and labelled and i
seem to be spending ages just reaaranging things to get new bits in.

Ta
 
Tom Woods wrote:
> I'm rewiring the 101 and i'm trying to plan my wiring loom before i
> start rather than doing it all ad-hoc.
> I'm hoping that this way i can order enough bits of differently
> coloured wire such that i can tell what is what later - and not over
> order too much and spend all my cash!.
>
> Can anybody recommend some software that is free (or very cheap) that
> i can use to plan my wiring.
>
> I'd basically like it to keep all my lines tidy and sort out the
> labelling.


3D cad system ? Free ? Try Alibre ( http://www.alibre.com ), free but
cut down - on special offer this month, only 600 quid for the pucker
version - bastards charged me 850 the month before, it has full 3D
sketching capability. I have a CAD model of a 101 ambi in my system at
work, but I haven't used it for this kind of thing.

Each wire can be a part for a "Bill of materials" list which you can
export/import into Excel or OpenOffice.

Steve
 
On Mon, 15 May 2006 21:30:57 +0100, Steve
<[email protected]> wrote:

>3D cad system ? Free ? Try Alibre ( http://www.alibre.com ), free but
>cut down - on special offer this month, only 600 quid for the pucker
>version - bastards charged me 850 the month before, it has full 3D
>sketching capability. I have a CAD model of a 101 ambi in my system at
>work, but I haven't used it for this kind of thing.
>
>Each wire can be a part for a "Bill of materials" list which you can
>export/import into Excel or OpenOffice.


Sounds like it might be a bit complicated for me but im downloading it
to try.
I only really need 2D!

 

"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm rewiring the 101 and i'm trying to plan my wiring loom before i
> start rather than doing it all ad-hoc.
> I'm hoping that this way i can order enough bits of differently
> coloured wire such that i can tell what is what later - and not over
> order too much and spend all my cash!.
>

Have you spoken to Autosparks?

http://www.autosparks.co.uk/store/landrover/types.asp?t=forwardcontrol&l=123

IME (with other classics, not Land Rovers), they're one of the most
genuinely helpful and knowledgeable suppliers you could wish to deal
with. They will customise looms exactly as you require, and make a much
neater job than you can easily achieve yourself.

They're only a few minutes from M1 J25, so worth calling in to see them,
especially to top up with odd connectors and so on.


--
Kevin Poole
**Use current month and year to reply (e.g. [email protected])***
Car Transport by Tiltbed Trailer - based near Derby

 
On Tue, 16 May 2006 08:07:21 +0100, "Autolycus"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> I'm rewiring the 101 and i'm trying to plan my wiring loom before i
>> start rather than doing it all ad-hoc.
>> I'm hoping that this way i can order enough bits of differently
>> coloured wire such that i can tell what is what later - and not over
>> order too much and spend all my cash!.
>>

>Have you spoken to Autosparks?
>
>http://www.autosparks.co.uk/store/landrover/types.asp?t=forwardcontrol&l=123
>
>IME (with other classics, not Land Rovers), they're one of the most
>genuinely helpful and knowledgeable suppliers you could wish to deal
>with. They will customise looms exactly as you require, and make a much
>neater job than you can easily achieve yourself.
>
>They're only a few minutes from M1 J25, so worth calling in to see them,
>especially to top up with odd connectors and so on.


I've looked at their looms for series vehicles before, and their loom
will work out more expensive than making my own.
I want so many customisations that i might as well do my own in a
way!. I'm fitting fuse boxes and relays where they wernt before and
building in a lot more stuff than is stock.
 
"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I've looked at their looms for series vehicles before, and their loom
> will work out more expensive than making my own.
> I want so many customisations that i might as well do my own in a
> way!. I'm fitting fuse boxes and relays where they wernt before and
> building in a lot more stuff than is stock.


Put in some over-capacity on the permanent live and switched live loom.
Once you get into the "I'll add this and that" scenario it's easy to run out
of live terminals to feed everything from and you'll end up having to splice
into feeds that you've already neatly fitted. I know! Some sort of live
bus-bar for both permanent and switched might never get used, but as sure as
sh*t stinks you'll discover that you need another live when you haven't got
one easily accessible.

Steve


 
In message <[email protected]>
"Steve" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > I've looked at their looms for series vehicles before, and their loom
> > will work out more expensive than making my own.
> > I want so many customisations that i might as well do my own in a
> > way!. I'm fitting fuse boxes and relays where they wernt before and
> > building in a lot more stuff than is stock.

>
> Put in some over-capacity on the permanent live and switched live loom.
> Once you get into the "I'll add this and that" scenario it's easy to run out
> of live terminals to feed everything from and you'll end up having to splice
> into feeds that you've already neatly fitted. I know! Some sort of live
> bus-bar for both permanent and switched might never get used, but as sure as
> sh*t stinks you'll discover that you need another live when you haven't got
> one easily accessible.
>
> Steve
>
>


Putting on my ex-Wiremans hat..... and ex-Rists hat too...

Vehicle harnesses are not simple things, as designed for vehicles,
even for basic harnesses like Series/101's etc. There's splices
and centre-taps all over the place, and it's not just a case of
"ah! there's 12V there so I'll tap into it", a lot of thought
and sums go into dealing with failure modes, current ratings and
not starting fires etc. In fact vehicle harnesses are unique in
allowing more that 2 cables on a terminal and that sort of thing
- if you did that on control cabinet you'd be shot, possibly after
being sacked....

I'd start with a schematic of your vehicle on paper, and start
"at the corners", working back, via the dash, to the battery/
alternator. As you progress you can add up currents etc to
decide on which size cable to use, or if another seperate
feed/earth is required. Ideally you need to allow for water etc
causing short term shorts and crossovers between circuits, but
that's probably over the top for what you are wanting to do.
There are some legal things that you might like to take into
account, such as a single failure should not cause all the
lights to go out (diagonal opposite corners should remain
illuminated) etc

When you get back to the dash, you can work out which switches
can be fed from where, and after a few interations you should
end up with (notionaly) one lead to the battery/alternator.

Getting the cable lengths right is never easy, not least
as you have to remember to leave slack to allow for vibration,
re-fitting of units (bulbs etc) and avoiding chaffing and
heat. Until you've built the first one! Again though, starting
"at the corners" and working back to the dash, building the
harness (cables in and out and all about) as you go with
"definately over length" cables will avoid embarassing moments.
OK, so you will waste quite a lot of cable by the time you
get to the dash as it's a one-off, but then when you buy more
than a few metres it's often cheaper (or more cost effective,
anyway) to buy a reel. Idealy, each cable sould be a different
colour/tracer combination, but that's not practical even
on a small harness, so the un-attached ends should be marked
with labels (a pain in the bum) or idents which indicate where
they came *from* (not too).

Use proper terminal crimps, fited with a proper crimping tool
(widely available these days for not much money) - *never* use
Scotch Locks...and don't solder anything. A proper cable stripper
will save a lot of grief later. Avoid using ty-wraps to hold
you new harness together - use sprial-wrap or split convolute
tube if at all possible and/or harness tape.

It sounds like a load of grief, but if you plan it well it's
not that bad a job, but pretty time-consuming. The harness is
the first part fitted to a body in the factory, obvioulsy
much easier to do, but retro fitting isn't that bad [1].

Richard

1[1] excludes Bentley's, Range Rovers and the like - it
takes two people just to lift some of the harnesses fitted
to the likes of those vehicles.
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 
beamendsltd wrote:

<snipped good stuff>


...which is why I favour using relays everywhere, with low current
switching and heavy distribution cables for 12V.

Is that a sensible approach ?


Steve

 
Steve Taylor <[email protected]> wrote:

> beamendsltd wrote:
> ..which is why I favour using relays everywhere, with low current
> switching and heavy distribution cables for 12V.
>
> Is that a sensible approach ?


While the idea of a big power bus with each item dropped
from it locally feels good in a nice protected environment
on a vehicle I'd worry about position on relays. Keeping
them up and out of the damp could end up making the loom
more complicated that wiring each item back to the central
switch gear.

Also keeping the load well distributed across a lot of
fuses means that you minimise the disruption caused by
any one fault.

eg: Having the reversing light fuse and the reversing light
relay down by the reversing lights might make for a neat,
modular system but on that night, when the sleet is coming
past horizontally and I didn't see the damn pile of bricks,
I'm going to regret it.

nigelH



*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
 
thanks Richard, points noted!

working from the corners sounds like a plan.

I didnt know about the diagonally opposite thing - my landies have not
been rewired like that and im not sure who would check it? (i do have
every complete set of lights in the landy on a different fuse)

I was going to buy some reels of cable - VWP sell small reels so i was
thinking of lots of short reels in am many different colours as i
needed (hence my planning.)
A proper crimping tool and stripper was on my list too.

Am i better off using preinsulated crimp terminals or the uninsulated
ones that have a seperate sleeve, and a different crimper (as already
used on my loom).

I was straying towards the latter.

I was also planning on making a lot of bits modular - such as my
dashboard.VWP sell multi-connectors that use crimps, so if i could run
everything on my dash through a few of them it would be good. I've had
no speedo for ages in the 101 and I couldnt actually remove the dash
properly without cutting the odd bit of wiring loom (and chiselling
off the screws which were put in before the windscreen!)

The only thing i cant find for sale is like steve suggests a +ve
'bus-bar" or any sort of simple thing i can use to connect multiple
feeds.
VWP also sell cheap fuse boxes that have either multiple blade
terminals coming off each fuse or linked fuses (so you can have a
block for ign live and ablock for perm live) which is annoying.

In my landy i have got various earth points which are a nut through
things that i have connected to via ring terminals. I could do with a
few insulated ones of these for positve supplies.
 
Tom Woods wrote:

> The only thing i cant find for sale is like steve suggests a +ve
> 'bus-bar" or any sort of simple thing i can use to connect multiple
> feeds.


Should be easy enough to make - all you need is a copper or brass strip
with some holes in it, fastenened a waterproof box.

Steve
 
In message <[email protected]>
Steve Taylor <[email protected]> wrote:

> beamendsltd wrote:
>
> <snipped good stuff>
>
>
> ..which is why I favour using relays everywhere, with low current
> switching and heavy distribution cables for 12V.
>
> Is that a sensible approach ?
>


Perfectly - just not viable on volume production, in fact it's
a sort of electromachanical version of a CAN bus! If you got
really carried away you could have a lamp indicating the stauts
of every circuit by monitoring the relay's state....... now that
would be fun!

>
> Steve
>


Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 
In message <[email protected]>
Tom Woods <[email protected]> wrote:

> thanks Richard, points noted!
>
> working from the corners sounds like a plan.
>
> I didnt know about the diagonally opposite thing - my landies have not
> been rewired like that and im not sure who would check it? (i do have
> every complete set of lights in the landy on a different fuse)
>


No one I should think - it's just a thought.

> I was going to buy some reels of cable - VWP sell small reels so i was
> thinking of lots of short reels in am many different colours as i
> needed (hence my planning.)
> A proper crimping tool and stripper was on my list too.
>
> Am i better off using preinsulated crimp terminals or the uninsulated
> ones that have a seperate sleeve, and a different crimper (as already
> used on my loom).
>
> I was straying towards the latter.


It depends on how water-tight you want to make it I suppose.

>
> I was also planning on making a lot of bits modular - such as my
> dashboard.VWP sell multi-connectors that use crimps, so if i could run
> everything on my dash through a few of them it would be good. I've had
> no speedo for ages in the 101 and I couldnt actually remove the dash
> properly without cutting the odd bit of wiring loom (and chiselling
> off the screws which were put in before the windscreen!)
>
> The only thing i cant find for sale is like steve suggests a +ve
> 'bus-bar" or any sort of simple thing i can use to connect multiple
> feeds.


I take him as meaning just a nice big cable.

> VWP also sell cheap fuse boxes that have either multiple blade
> terminals coming off each fuse or linked fuses (so you can have a
> block for ign live and ablock for perm live) which is annoying.
>
> In my landy i have got various earth points which are a nut through
> things that i have connected to via ring terminals. I could do with a
> few insulated ones of these for positve supplies.


Maplin do such things I seem to recall - basically a rubber bobbin
with a stud sticking out of each end.

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay
 
On Tue, 16 May 2006 11:39:17 +0100, Tom Woods
<[email protected]> wrote:

>The only thing i cant find for sale is like steve suggests a +ve
>'bus-bar" or any sort of simple thing i can use to connect multiple
>feeds.



I retrieved a busbar from a skip recently, solid copper 25mm by 6mm
with brass nuts and bolts, I've just had a search for it an can't find
it amongst all the other junk I've saved. If I find it you're welcome
to it but I suggest any industrial electrician will have them.

If you look at

http://www.hvwooding.co.uk/busbarproduction.html

and the busbar in the top right of the biggest image that's what I am
talking about, a bit heavy duty for 12V.

AJH
 
On Mon, 15 May 2006 21:23:35 +0100, Tom Woods
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I'm rewiring the 101 and i'm trying to plan my wiring loom before i
>start rather than doing it all ad-hoc.
>I'm hoping that this way i can order enough bits of differently
>coloured wire such that i can tell what is what later - and not over
>order too much and spend all my cash!.
>
>Can anybody recommend some software that is free (or very cheap) that
>i can use to plan my wiring.
>
>I'd basically like it to keep all my lines tidy and sort out the
>labelling.
>
>I've been googling but i cant seem to find anything good.
>
>The best ive got is a bit of GPL software called 'Dia', which works -
>but it is really hard to get all the wires tidy and labelled and i
>seem to be spending ages just reaaranging things to get new bits in.


When I rewired my SIIa I decided to make my own loom so i could wire
it how i wanted it, with the extras. As for diagrams I laid down the
circuit diagram using Microsoft Visio. The loom layout and wire
listings i did the old fashioned way - using pencil and paper.

Alex
 
On or around Tue, 16 May 2006 10:58:21 +0100, beamendsltd
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Putting on my ex-Wiremans hat..... and ex-Rists hat too...
>
>There are some legal things that you might like to take into
>account, such as a single failure should not cause all the
>lights to go out (diagonal opposite corners should remain
>illuminated) etc


modern ones (well, actually, modern ones use CANbus and suchlike, don't
they?) but fairly modern ones have separate fuses and circuits for L and R
sidelights and rearlights, plus separate fuses for each di and each main.
mind you, the whole f**kin' lot goes through the lighting switch, do it only
needs that to burn out and hey presto, no lights at all. by rights, you
should have 2 separate circuits and 2 separate switches to the sidelights
and headlights, but they almost all don't. I bet they would on an
aeroplane... must be some reason for aeroplanes having about 57 switches on
a bloody great panel above the pilot's head.

excellent post BTW. I've often contemplated rebuilding looms on old,
knackered stuff and always chickened out.

The other thing you didn't mention is that to get it "right" you need to
look up the list of what colour wire does what, and buy wires of all manner
of pretty colours...

either that or do it like the aircraft and have all the wires the same
colour identified by those little numbers and letters... but the pretty
colours route is good 'cos then you can take the colour scheme from the
wiring diagram and replicate it.

I can rememeber a few of 'em: lighting supply is white/blue, main beam is
blue/white, dip beam blue/red for example. however, on the newer stuff, the
blue/red only goes as far as the fusebox then it splits into 2 colours for
LH and RH dip.

and I've no doubt there are several systems, all different, too - I think
the japanese ones are all different colours, for example, and they use
different connectors, too.

vehicle wiring products is the place to go for crimps and crimp tools and so
forth.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"
George Orwell (1903 - 1950) Animal Farm
 
On or around Tue, 16 May 2006 11:39:17 +0100, Tom Woods
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>I didnt know about the diagonally opposite thing - my landies have not
>been rewired like that and im not sure who would check it? (i do have
>every complete set of lights in the landy on a different fuse)


If you go back to the series II, you'll find it had 2 fuses. series IIIs
started off with 4 fuses, and a modern (pre bus-type) RR or disco has about
37.

the requirements have got more complicated as well as more stuff being added
that needs fuses, the only good thing is that it's not all retrospective...

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"
George Orwell (1903 - 1950) Animal Farm
 
On Tue, 16 May 2006 16:22:59 +0100, Alex <[email protected]>
wrote:

>When I rewired my SIIa I decided to make my own loom so i could wire
>it how i wanted it, with the extras. As for diagrams I laid down the
>circuit diagram using Microsoft Visio. The loom layout and wire
>listings i did the old fashioned way - using pencil and paper.


Ive just started playing with visio to see if it will do the job..


 
On Tue, 16 May 2006 20:25:57 +0100, Tom Woods
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tue, 16 May 2006 16:22:59 +0100, Alex <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>When I rewired my SIIa I decided to make my own loom so i could wire
>>it how i wanted it, with the extras. As for diagrams I laid down the
>>circuit diagram using Microsoft Visio. The loom layout and wire
>>listings i did the old fashioned way - using pencil and paper.

>
>Ive just started playing with visio to see if it will do the job..
>


Well, if you have the electrical symbols stencils you've got a head
start, although i still had to make some custom symbols. It does have
the advantage that once you've connected everything up you can move
things around and the wires move with it. I suppose you could use that
feature to do a loom layout as well.

Alex
 
Austin Shackles wrote:

> either that or do it like the aircraft and have all the wires the same
> colour identified by those little numbers and letters... but the pretty
> colours route is good 'cos then you can take the colour scheme from the
> wiring diagram and replicate it.


There is nothing so nice as a properly wired loom with everything
labelled from end, and identified with non-removable lettered and
numbered coloured rings (in resistor colour code), it just looks RIGHT.

None of this multicoloured mess....

Steve
 
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