Sluggish starting..

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Codbasher

Codbasher

New Member
Posts
493
Location
Treuddyn, North Wales
Having real probs starting the old girl lately..

Bought a new battery as old one was giving up the ghost.

Fitted new one Ok for a couple of days, now she wont start again, turns over very slow, battery leads are getting very hot, no loose connections at either Battery or Starter.. Even leaving it on charge over night does not help.

Could it be the starter going duff, but when I do get it going she starts fine for the rest of the day??
 
Codbasher said:
Having real probs starting the old girl lately..

Bought a new battery as old one was giving up the ghost.

Fitted new one Ok for a couple of days, now she wont start again, turns over very slow, battery leads are getting very hot, no loose connections at either Battery or Starter.. Even leaving it on charge over night does not help.

Could it be the starter going duff, but when I do get it going she starts fine for the rest of the day??
Click to expand...

The ONLY reason the batery and starter leads heat up is RESISTANCE.
The heat created is in proportion to the square of the current times the RESISTANCE.
There are two causes of that resistance:

1. the actual cables involved cannot carry the current, so use bigger cables, or double them up. ALL the big cables including the earth straps carry the full load, so they ALL have to be up to the job, all the way from battery + back to battery -.

2. dirty connections at cable ends / terminals / clamps / and so on. Start at one end and take every one off, one after the other, and clean them properly till bright and shining, give a slight wipe with Vaseline, and put back securely.

Remember, if it gets HOT, it IS the problem!

Remember, HEAT = Amps squared times resistance.
If there is NO resistance, there is NO HEAT!!!!
No heat means NO LOSS of leccy!

There could be a moral in there ....

CharlesY
 
ffs charlesy ..; did you take a course on spinning stuff out? it took me a sentence to say what you needs two chapters to convey. albeit most of it will go straight over the heads of those that dint understand
 
slob said:
ffs charlesy ..; did you take a course on spinning stuff out? it took me a sentence to say what you needs two chapters to convey. albeit most of it will go straight over the heads of those that dint understand
Click to expand...

Well, I hear what you say, BUT, let's not underestimate any of our fellow LandyZoners. Some may not bother to read it, and that's fine by me. But I bet some will read, and start to see things they didn't see before. Learning is seldom bad.

Many of LandyZoners may not have a great time at their schools, but that doesn't mean they aren't as clever as the best of the rest.

So, if I can set it out plain and full, that I will do, and if even ONE LandyZoner reads it and learns a new fact, then it was worth it.

The principle of HEAT and RESISTANCE is so vital in cars because the volts are LOW meaning the currents are HIGH, and therein lies the HEAT problem.

It's one reason trucks use 24 volt systems, and houses use 240 volts.
To get one horsepower from 12 volts needs a current of over SIXTY amps. In a truck using 24 volts it would only need 30 amps, but in a house at 240 volts you would only need a little over THREE amps.

Now we know why pylons use 440,000 volts! It cuts the CURRENT way down, and so the losses to HEAT are greatly reduced.

CharlesY
 
CharlesY said:
Well, I hear what you say, BUT, let's not underestimate any of our fellow LandyZoners. Some may not bother to read it, and that's fine by me. But I bet some will read, and start to see things they didn't see before. Learning is seldom bad.

Many of LandyZoners may not have a great time at their schools, but that doesn't mean they aren't as clever as the best of the rest.

So, if I can set it out plain and full, that I will do, and if even ONE LandyZoner reads it and learns a new fact, then it was worth it.

The principle of HEAT and RESISTANCE is so vital in cars because the volts are LOW meaning the currents are HIGH, and therein lies the HEAT problem.

It's one reason trucks use 24 volt systems, and houses use 240 volts.
To get one horsepower from 12 volts needs a current of over SIXTY amps. In a truck using 24 volts it would only need 30 amps, but in a house at 240 volts you would only need a little over THREE amps.

Now we know why pylons use 440,000 volts! It cuts the CURRENT way down, and so the losses to HEAT are greatly reduced.

CharlesY
Click to expand...
Interesting
 
yer not wrong, i just think folk are more interested in getting their landies working than in the specifics of thermo-electro conductivity and and the techincal details. if yer keep it simple it dint fright them away from doing stuff.

if yer use too many big wurds some folk might see it as over complicated and run away. plus if they had a interest in the way it works they would shirley get a book or use google to further their knowledge.
 
slob said:
yer not wrong, i just think folk are more interested in getting their landies working than in the specifics of thermo-electro conductivity and and the techincal details. if yer keep it simple it dint fright them away from doing stuff.

if yer use too many big wurds some folk might see it as over complicated and run away. plus if they had a interest in the way it works they would shirley get a book or use google to further their knowledge.
Click to expand...

Sure!
But maybe I saved someone a trip to the technical section of the library!

As long as no harm is done ...

Blooming freezing up here ... minus 8 last night.

Cold today again.

Bbrrrrrrr.

CharlesY
 
ah get what yer saying. its just that i've known folks to shy away from simple jobs if you get all techincal on them.


fooking wur -12 last night
 
Never mind what anyone else thinks. Charles' explanation was very interesting. Was to me anyway, never did understand Physics and stuff at school. Mind you it's so long ago I can't remember if I went to school. Maybe they weren't invented when I was a lad and old shep was a pup.
 
bloat1992 said:
Codbasher said:
Having real probs starting the old girl lately..
quote]

Isnt that the norm with a series landy?
Click to expand...

I reckon it's the norm with ALL diesel engines in cold weather.
They all require tremendous temperatures to cause ignition, and that requires a whole list of things to happen, and if any one doesn't, the engine may not start. It may just pump out clouds of fuel vapour down the exhaust pipe.

My tractor has a KiGass starting aid. It is a great device.
You have a bloody big electric hot coil in the inlet manifold close to the inlet ports, and a little pump on the dash connected to a small tank of kerosene.

Stage one - Push big button and heat the coil for ten seconds till it is incandescent.

Stage two - pull out pump plunger, then shove it in smartly. This sprays a tablespoonful of kerosene over the red hot coil in the inlet manifold. There is an audible WHUMP! as the kero ignites.


Stage Three - turn the starter as soon as possible, so the pistons suck in all that lovely hot blazing kero ... a quick start is a cert!

All the parts are freely available from tractor dealers.
CharlesY
Click to expand...
 
Jeez Charlsey you talking about TVO Fergies??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


I understand what you are saying about resistance etc, but how come WHEN i do get her started she will start fine all day?? My first thought was maybe the oil was thick as hell, but it aint.
 
CharlesY said:
My tractor has a KiGass starting aid. It is a great device.
You have a bloody big electric hot coil in the inlet manifold close to the inlet ports, and a little pump on the dash connected to a small tank of kerosene.

Stage one - Push big button and heat the coil for ten seconds till it is incandescent.

Stage two - pull out pump plunger, then shove it in smartly. This sprays a tablespoonful of kerosene over the red hot coil in the inlet manifold. There is an audible WHUMP! as the kero ignites.

Stage Three - turn the starter as soon as possible, so the pistons suck in all that lovely hot blazing kero ... a quick start is a cert!
Click to expand...

the starting aid on me perkins 4203 works abit like that but just runs a bit of diesel from the return line to the coil in the inlet manifold, doesnt go off with a "whump" but ignites well enough!
 
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