Several questions about a '95 Disco

Hey everyone. My girlfriend has a '95 Disco w/ the 3.9L V8. It's been
quite a long time since she's had the tranny oil(s) changed; actually
she doesn't even know the last time they were changed. The car used to
belong to her father, and she bought it from him about three years ago,
and she is unsure of the maintenance. Anyway, today she called our
local Land Rover dealer to inquire about a tranny and/or differential
flush and refill. They told her they won't flush it, but will refill
at a cost of $300! The reason they don't flush it? "It keeps the
'good' debris in there." This sounds like complete BS to me...never
before have I heard this. I don't work on Land Rovers, I'm familiar
with aircooled VWs and watercooled Mazdas. So I have a few more
questions for you:

1.) Who can and shouldn't flush and/or refill the driveline fluids?
What needs to be changed flushed, etc.? Is this true that you
shouldn't flush the tranny to keep 'good debris' in there?

2.) Also, even more concerning, the power steering has been making a
TERRIBLE racket lately. It groans and moans and whines and just sounds
absolutely horrible whenever you turn the wheel off center. When
idling, it whines much more than usual. I checked the power steering
fluid level and found it quite low, so I filled it. This seemed to fix
the problem, but there is apparently a massive leak somewhere, and the
noise is back four days later even worse. Land Rover said "if the leak
is in the box, it will cost $600 to replace, if it's the lines, about
$210 apiece." Thoughts? BTW, we are located in Albuquerque NM.

I apologize if this is the wrong board for this kind of stuff, but
there doesn't seem to be a specific board for Discos.
Thanks for any help

~Anthony

On or around 15 Dec 2004 22:05:37 -0800, "Anthony"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

> They told her they won't flush it, but will refill
>at a cost of $300! The reason they don't flush it? "It keeps the
>'good' debris in there." This sounds like complete BS to me...never
>before have I heard this. I don't work on Land Rovers, I'm familiar
>with aircooled VWs and watercooled Mazdas. So I have a few more
>questions for you:
>
>1.) Who can and shouldn't flush and/or refill the driveline fluids?
>What needs to be changed flushed, etc.? Is this true that you
>shouldn't flush the tranny to keep 'good debris' in there?

sounds like bollox. However... the ZF 4-speed auto can only be completely
drained by taking it out - the torque converter can't be drained in situ and
has a fair bit of oil in it.

proper drain and refill involves removing the sump and changing the filter
screen. The other oils (transfer case, diffs, front swivel housings) all
drain and can be refilled. The front swivels can be filled with "one-shot"
grease instead. If they are, there should be labels on the vehicle
somewhere saying so, and they're not supposed to need attention.

>2.) Also, even more concerning, the power steering has been making a
>TERRIBLE racket lately. It groans and moans and whines and just sounds
>absolutely horrible whenever you turn the wheel off center.

sounds common. I've had ones do this for ages. whines are usually the pump
cavitating due to low fluid, the groaning noise when turning the wheel seems
to be something "they all do, guvnor" - doesn't seem to be worth doing
anything about. The leak however needs fixing, or it'll cost you a lot in
fluid; sadly, steering boxes are expensive, if that's where it's leaking.
In the UK a visible fluid leak will fail the annual test.

In message <[email protected]>
"Anthony" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hey everyone. My girlfriend has a '95 Disco w/ the 3.9L V8. It's been
> quite a long time since she's had the tranny oil(s) changed; actually
> she doesn't even know the last time they were changed. The car used to
> belong to her father, and she bought it from him about three years ago,
> and she is unsure of the maintenance. Anyway, today she called our
> local Land Rover dealer to inquire about a tranny and/or differential
> flush and refill. They told her they won't flush it, but will refill
> at a cost of $300! The reason they don't flush it? "It keeps the
> 'good' debris in there." This sounds like complete BS to me...never
> before have I heard this. I don't work on Land Rovers, I'm familiar
> with aircooled VWs and watercooled Mazdas. So I have a few more
> questions for you:
>
> 1.) Who can and shouldn't flush and/or refill the driveline fluids?
> What needs to be changed flushed, etc.? Is this true that you
> shouldn't flush the tranny to keep 'good debris' in there?
>

Changing fluids at the specified intervals is definately a Good Thing,
particularly the main gearbox as ATF has a limited life. If by
"flushing" you mean cleaning out with some sort of degreaser, then
I'd tend to agree that, unless there is some debris present that
needs removing, then that is unnecessary - a change will suffice.

> 2.) Also, even more concerning, the power steering has been making a
> TERRIBLE racket lately. It groans and moans and whines and just sounds
> absolutely horrible whenever you turn the wheel off center. When
> idling, it whines much more than usual. I checked the power steering
> fluid level and found it quite low, so I filled it. This seemed to fix
> the problem, but there is apparently a massive leak somewhere, and the
> noise is back four days later even worse. Land Rover said "if the leak
> is in the box, it will cost $600 to replace, if it's the lines, about
> $210 apiece." Thoughts? BTW, we are located in Albuquerque NM.

Have a look at the bottom of the steering box - the usual culprit
is the seal on the output ("sector") shaft. If that is leaking,
then it is possible (but unlikely) that replacing the seal will
fix it. Usually, however, the seal will have cut a groove in the
shaft making seal repacement a very short-term repair!
That would leave three options - a new unit, a reconditioned unit,
or repair. To repair it would require a seal kit (2 actually) and
a new sector shaft - or perhaps even better get the shaft repaired
by someone who does hydraulic rams etc - if its done right it should
then last forever.

>
> I apologize if this is the wrong board for this kind of stuff, but
> there doesn't seem to be a specific board for Discos.
> Thanks for any help

You are indeed in the right place, though it is a bit UK oriented.

>
> ~Anthony
>

Richard

--
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Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems

beamendsltd <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:f55c1d1e4d%[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>
> "Anthony" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Hey everyone. My girlfriend has a '95 Disco w/ the 3.9L V8. It's been
> > quite a long time since she's had the tranny oil(s) changed; actually
> > she doesn't even know the last time they were changed. The car used to
> > belong to her father, and she bought it from him about three years ago,
> > and she is unsure of the maintenance. Anyway, today she called our
> > local Land Rover dealer to inquire about a tranny and/or differential
> > flush and refill. They told her they won't flush it, but will refill
> > at a cost of $300! The reason they don't flush it? "It keeps the
> > 'good' debris in there." This sounds like complete BS to me...never
> > before have I heard this. I don't work on Land Rovers, I'm familiar
> > with aircooled VWs and watercooled Mazdas. So I have a few more
> > questions for you:
> >
> > 1.) Who can and shouldn't flush and/or refill the driveline fluids?
> > What needs to be changed flushed, etc.? Is this true that you
> > shouldn't flush the tranny to keep 'good debris' in there?
> >
>
> Changing fluids at the specified intervals is definately a Good Thing,
> particularly the main gearbox as ATF has a limited life. If by
> "flushing" you mean cleaning out with some sort of degreaser, then
> I'd tend to agree that, unless there is some debris present that
> needs removing, then that is unnecessary - a change will suffice.
>
> > 2.) Also, even more concerning, the power steering has been making a
> > TERRIBLE racket lately. It groans and moans and whines and just sounds
> > absolutely horrible whenever you turn the wheel off center. When
> > idling, it whines much more than usual. I checked the power steering
> > fluid level and found it quite low, so I filled it. This seemed to fix
> > the problem, but there is apparently a massive leak somewhere, and the
> > noise is back four days later even worse. Land Rover said "if the leak
> > is in the box, it will cost $600 to replace, if it's the lines, about
> > $210 apiece." Thoughts? BTW, we are located in Albuquerque NM.
>
> Have a look at the bottom of the steering box - the usual culprit
> is the seal on the output ("sector") shaft. If that is leaking,
> then it is possible (but unlikely) that replacing the seal will
> fix it. Usually, however, the seal will have cut a groove in the
> shaft making seal repacement a very short-term repair!
> That would leave three options - a new unit, a reconditioned unit,
> or repair. To repair it would require a seal kit (2 actually) and
> a new sector shaft - or perhaps even better get the shaft repaired
> by someone who does hydraulic rams etc - if its done right it should
> then last forever.

Before you spend big money, try some "seal swell" stuff - bound to be
available from a decent motor factor or whatever you call them over there.
Worked for me on a then 10 year old 110, although it took a while. (Several
weeks in fact)

2 years later, the box was still dry! Also bleed the box to get any air
out - if there is air present, chances are you have a poor hose connection
somewhere, the crimps are known to loosen as the hose ages. Again, changing
a duff hose helped solve the problem for me.

Mike.

"Anthony" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hey everyone. My girlfriend has a '95 Disco w/ the 3.9L V8. It's been
> quite a long time since she's had the tranny oil(s) changed; actually
> she doesn't even know the last time they were changed. The car used to
> belong to her father, and she bought it from him about three years ago,
> and she is unsure of the maintenance. Anyway, today she called our
> local Land Rover dealer to inquire about a tranny and/or differential
> flush and refill. They told her they won't flush it, but will refill
> at a cost of $300! The reason they don't flush it? "It keeps the
> 'good' debris in there." This sounds like complete BS to me...never
> before have I heard this. I don't work on Land Rovers, I'm familiar
> with aircooled VWs and watercooled Mazdas. So I have a few more
> questions for you:
>
> 1.) Who can and shouldn't flush and/or refill the driveline fluids?
> What needs to be changed flushed, etc.? Is this true that you
> shouldn't flush the tranny to keep 'good debris' in there?
>
> 2.) Also, even more concerning, the power steering has been making a
> TERRIBLE racket lately. It groans and moans and whines and just sounds
> absolutely horrible whenever you turn the wheel off center. When
> idling, it whines much more than usual. I checked the power steering
> fluid level and found it quite low, so I filled it. This seemed to fix
> the problem, but there is apparently a massive leak somewhere, and the
> noise is back four days later even worse. Land Rover said "if the leak
> is in the box, it will cost $600 to replace, if it's the lines, about
> $210 apiece." Thoughts? BTW, we are located in Albuquerque NM.
>
> I apologize if this is the wrong board for this kind of stuff, but
> there doesn't seem to be a specific board for Discos.
> Thanks for any help
>
> ~Anthony

As others have said, if you mean flush with some sort of cleaning fluid I
don't think that is ever done. If you wanted a LR dealer to change all your
fluids I'm not too surprised at $300 considering the labor
rates/time/materials involved. If you just want the tranny changed you
might call some of the quick lube places like Speedy. Some of these have a
machine that connects into the transmission oil cooler lines. This setup is
supposed to remove essentially 100% of the old oil. Might not be able to
hook it up to the LR though.
As for the steering box, I'd try the pour-in sealer as well. Don't think it
can hurt and it may even work. As one person suggested, you might get away
with just changing a seal. If the shaft is worn you can sometimes get a
seal which is 1/2 the thickness of the original. This puts the sealing
material onto a new portion of the shaft. Hoses sometimes spring pinhole
leaks that are hard to see unless you look carefully while the engine is
running. I'd suggest you look everywhere around the box while you
girlfriend turns the wheel from lock to lock, engine running of course.
Good luck.

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:05:37 -0600, Anthony wrote
(in article <[email protected]>):

> Hey everyone. My girlfriend has a '95 Disco w/ the 3.9L V8. It's been
> quite a long time since she's had the tranny oil(s) changed; actually
> she doesn't even know the last time they were changed. The car used to
> belong to her father, and she bought it from him about three years ago,
> and she is unsure of the maintenance. Anyway, today she called our
> local Land Rover dealer to inquire about a tranny and/or differential
> flush and refill. They told her they won't flush it, but will refill
> at a cost of $300! The reason they don't flush it? "It keeps the
> 'good' debris in there." This sounds like complete BS to me...never
> before have I heard this. I don't work on Land Rovers, I'm familiar
> with aircooled VWs and watercooled Mazdas. So I have a few more
> questions for you:
>
> 1.) Who can and shouldn't flush and/or refill the driveline fluids?
> What needs to be changed flushed, etc.? Is this true that you
> shouldn't flush the tranny to keep 'good debris' in there?
>
> 2.) Also, even more concerning, the power steering has been making a
> TERRIBLE racket lately. It groans and moans and whines and just sounds
> absolutely horrible whenever you turn the wheel off center. When
> idling, it whines much more than usual. I checked the power steering
> fluid level and found it quite low, so I filled it. This seemed to fix
> the problem, but there is apparently a massive leak somewhere, and the
> noise is back four days later even worse. Land Rover said "if the leak
> is in the box, it will cost $600 to replace, if it's the lines, about
> $210 apiece." Thoughts? BTW, we are located in Albuquerque NM.
>
> I apologize if this is the wrong board for this kind of stuff, but
> there doesn't seem to be a specific board for Discos.
> Thanks for any help
>
>> Anthony
>

For the power steering pump look at the hose clamps. My mechanic said the
ones Rover uses aren't very good. I had a major leak and that is all it was.
Also it doesn't use power steering fluid. At least on my '96 it uses Dexron.

Good luck.

Hud

On or around Thu, 16 Dec 2004 21:09:44 -0600, Disco Duck <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>
>For the power steering pump look at the hose clamps. My mechanic said the
>ones Rover uses aren't very good. I had a major leak and that is all it was.
>Also it doesn't use power steering fluid. At least on my '96 it uses Dexron.

mopst automotive power steering systems IME use ATF in one form or another.
They're also for the most part less fussy about which than the gearboxes
are.

The main box on 5-speeds (LT77s or R380s) also uses Dexron II, but it's
popular in the UK to fill it with fully-syntehtic SAE75 gear oil. Not so
good in extreme cold weather, as it's a bit thicker, so makes for sluggish
changes when the oil's cold.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"There are three sorts of people in the world - those who can count,
and those who can't" (Anon)