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Servo Assisting the Clutch - 300Tdi / R380.

Discussion in 'General Land Rover Forum' started by Disco1BFG, Jun 5, 2016.

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  1. Disco1BFG

    Disco1BFG Well-Known Member

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    A little while ago, I had asked if anyone had servo assisted the clutch on a 300TDi. The simple answer seemed to be no, but that some folk were interested.:)

    There are some folk on other forums who have done this, but, apart from a single thread on difflock.com, there seems to be a lack of useable information out there...

    Well, I have now done it to SWMBO's D1, and, to start at the end, its rather good, pedal effort has been reduced from about 18Kg static, to about 7Kg static - measured in a rather Heath Robinson fashion :confused:with a spring balance, as shown below:-

    1.jpg

    A more empirical measure is that its now possible to disengage the clutch using finger pressure alone - without breaking the finger in question:D

    This has been done with ( a Chinese copy of ) an "MG" 2.3:1 ratio brake servo from the bay of fleas ( £90 ) and various pipe nuts, a tee piece for the vacuum pipe work, and miscellaneous bolts etc, all in for less than £100, and about an afternoon to fit it, and bleed it. I also changed the fluid whilst I was at it, as it probably would have been daft not to - the original fluid was well past its sell by date. 2.jpg

    The supplied bracket, once de-burred, ( or should that be un-sharpened:rolleyes: ), was fitted as shown, by drilling through the inner wing, and bolting through - with a good coating of anti corrosion wax.
    4.jpg


    The actual servo didn't come with any nuts to hold it to the bracket (?!!?!), and they are 5/16" UNF ( as befits an MG, I suppose ) - but I had some in stock from my old Triumph days.....
    Had to move the glow plug relay to make enough space for the large 7" can of the servo. Servo came with a bundy pipe, and I used this to make the two pipes for the circuit:- As I made them, the Master to servo pipe is 535mm long, and the servo to original clutch pipework pipe is 720mm long.

    If there is a problem with this servo, its that the pipe unions are 5/16" for 3/16" pipe, and the LR clutch pipework is 7/16" for 1/4 pipe work - thankfully adapting nuts are available from the well known auction site - but it would be better to have bought a servo tapped for 7/16", and use 1/4 pipe throughout. I couldn't find one. If this creates any problems, I'll re-tap the servo, and upsize the pipework. 3.jpg

    The ( plain steel tube ) support shown here is necessary to maintain the angle of the servo as per the instructions downloaded from the evilbay listing. (I'll paint it later ! ) Bleeding the extended circuit took a while, and with no (servo) assistance, the clutch effort is essentially the same. (HEAVY!) Once the engine is running effort drops very quickly, and its a whole lot easier to operate. Bite point remains unchanged.

    Whilst its early days for the mod, we're very pleased so far. Highly recommended for anyone with a requirement for a lighter clutch.
     

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  2. Brown

    Brown Well-Known Member

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    Now that's an interesting use for an MG servo. Was there any particular reason why you picked that model of servo? Some people fit the Redbooster, but I see it's £375 nowadays which could be quite offputting.

    Good job, anyway!
     
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  3. Flossie

    Flossie Well-Known Member

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    Nice write up!
    Been waiting for this.
    Tell me, do you think fitting one behind the intercooler (only clear ish space I have on the 110) would work? Bearing in mind the long pipe runs.
     
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  4. Discokids

    Discokids Well-Known Member

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    Looks good, I'd like to do this, my clutch is fairly heavy (200tdi / lt77) although my disco is ok (300tdi) I may make up a gauge like yours and measure all my clutches, just for laughs.
     
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  5. Disco1BFG

    Disco1BFG Well-Known Member

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    Thanks!:)

    Chose this servo largely because it was the largest one I was confident would fit in the space available. Only other place I could think of was the NS "battery" space, which we want for.... yep you guessed it, a second battery !! We wanted the highest ratio, for the greatest assistance, to fit on the OS inner wing... and the 2.3 was it !

    This is a "short term" "cheap ish" fix for the vehicle until I convert it to auto. SWMBO has some health issues, and the clutch was far too heavy for her. ( and, TBH, for me too - I don't "do" manuals due disability :rolleyes:).

    I didn't know if the Red Booster could be fitted to a D1, so I emailed them, back in January - they still haven't replied, so, I was dammed if I was "giving" them £375, plus fitting for the privilege of ignoring me!!:rolleyes:o_O
     
  6. Disco1BFG

    Disco1BFG Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. HTH:)

    The long pipe runs might affect the amount of assistance you would actually feel, but I doubt it would be by much. This is why we went for the 2.3, over the 1.9 - that and the fact the 3.6 ( the next "size" up ) would probably make the clutch silly light, AND use/need a lot more quantity of vacuum, as to cause other issues. We are still undecided if we'll need a vacuum tank in the installation... or not... :confused:

    If you look on the thread I linked to previously on difflock.com - a guy on there managed to get a 1.9:1 on the OS inner wing of a 90, and it seemed to fit quite well... here's the thread - pictures are about half way down the page...:)

    http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=52395&sid=731f953ed68cab38df960c7de03954a4

    I can measure the actual size of this one if it would help...:)
     
  7. Disco1BFG

    Disco1BFG Well-Known Member

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    It was easy to do - bleeding the extended circuit was the worst, I.E. most boring, part - even with a vacuum bleeder :rolleyes: - rest was pretty simple.

    :cool:As for the gauge, well, you can try mine when i come and see you:D

    I'll even bring, hang the expense, me patented "bit of wood" wiv the "tapered end" :D:D
     
  8. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Well-Known Member

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    Well done, mate. Great thread. That's a very tempting idea.
     
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  9. Brown

    Brown Well-Known Member

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    If you look at the use of remote brake servos in cars from the 1960s and 70s they seem to be all over the place and often not near the mater cylinder at all, added to which customisers sometimes hide them away in wheel arches or inside the dashboard for that 'clean' engine bay look, I doubt whether the length of pipe runs makes that much difference. Remember the fashion for having pigtails in brake pipes? It all adds up to more tubing and I doubt whether there was much significant reduction in performance.
     
  10. Disco1BFG

    Disco1BFG Well-Known Member

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    I think I agree that the (extra) length of the pipes is borderline irrelevant - the bundy supplied with the servo was about 5 feet in length - which would mean that the total run of pipe to and from the servo would be double this - in turn meaning that the servo could be more or less anywhere on a 'fender. My experience, however, would mean that I would carefully consider the hassle of bleeding such a long circuit before installation.... I would suggest that a pressure bleeder would be more or less essential with the longer pipe runs.:)
     
  11. Disco1BFG

    Disco1BFG Well-Known Member

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    I have attached the instructions for the servo installation for your delectation :D - they give all the angles the installation scheme must comply with, and also suggest, on page 5, the use of banjo's to make the installation more compact - not really necessary in a D1, but it might help fit it in a 'fender.

    In terms of putting it near your intercooler - should be Ok if it doesn't block the airflow, but .... you could always upgrade to a full width, which would free up the space taken by said original intercooler :D

    Go on!!, you know it makes sense:D:D:D
     

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  12. Kwakerman

    Kwakerman Well-Known Member

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    Good effort and well done in taking the plunge and having a go, cant really say that I've noticed the clutch is that heavy on my Defender 300/R380but then again my heavy legs and 'big bones build' probably compensate for it.:rolleyes:
     
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  13. Discokids

    Discokids Well-Known Member

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    [QUOTE="Disco1BFG,

    I'll even bring, hang the expense, me patented "bit of wood" wiv the "tapered end" :D:D[/QUOTE]

    Ooh-er :eek:

    Not sure whether to be exited or very, very afraid.:p
     
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  14. Disco1BFG

    Disco1BFG Well-Known Member

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    Thanks:)

    I think, excepting medical issues, ( of which we both have plenty, :(:eek: ), it seems to quite a personal "thing" as to whether the clutch is heavy or not - well, that and old age :D

    18Kg as measured didn't seem too bad, in isolation, but 7 is much, much better:)
     
  15. Flossie

    Flossie Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that chap!
    The reasoning behind the intercooler position is that I do have a full width one so there is a little void there, everywhere else is taken with diesel heaters and block heaters, snorkel pipework etc etc.
    The measurements will be useful thanks.
     
  16. Flossie

    Flossie Well-Known Member

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    Im useless on a pooter! Clicked on your thingy and my phone says file downloaded after a few secs but then says 'can not open file'
    Doh!!!
    Are the measurements in there?
     
  17. Disco1BFG

    Disco1BFG Well-Known Member

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    Some measurements are in there, yes... I'll try and measure this one and put them up when I can ( busy taking SMWBO back and forth to the quack ATM )

    You might not have the right app for .pdf files on your phone.... maybe... got access to an ordinary 'puter? ( well, not an ordinary one, either Mac or Linux, not **** windross )

    You'll find the link in the flea bay listing for item # 401124837973

    Just in case, here it is....

    http://www.mossmotors.com/graphics/products/PDF/981-173.pdf
     
  18. Disco1BFG

    Disco1BFG Well-Known Member

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    Ah! good man, me too - can't beat them ( its on the list to do to SWMBO's D1 too!) Routing the pipework would certainly be interesting - is there any space under the wing you could get to more easily ? I can't see any real issue with the position, unless it got too hot during low speed use???
     
  19. Al2O3

    Al2O3 Well-Known Member

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    I've saved those instructions for future reference. :)
    Flossie, I think you'll just need to download a PDF reader on to your phone.
     
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  20. Disco1BFG

    Disco1BFG Well-Known Member

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    Cool!:cool::)
    My Samsung phone didn't come with one - thinks its called polaris or something ??:)
     
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