Series tyres / rims, tubeless or not?

C

ChelseaTractor

Guest

• Aug 17, 2005

• #1

I decided I needed to replace my tyres, and found some well priced
tubeless, which I now have on my old inner tubes & rims. After several
years without punctures on my old tyres, I have suffered five in the
the past 2 months.

The boys at my local tyre shop say it's the rims (which are pretty
rusty inside, I admit), and I should replace them with tubeless rims.
But if the problem is the rims, why only now with the new tyres?

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Aug 17, 2005

• #2

On or around 17 Aug 2005 01:36:05 -0700, "ChelseaTractor"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>I decided I needed to replace my tyres, and found some well priced
>tubeless, which I now have on my old inner tubes & rims. After several
>years without punctures on my old tyres, I have suffered five in the
>the past 2 months.
>
>The boys at my local tyre shop say it's the rims (which are pretty
>rusty inside, I admit), and I should replace them with tubeless rims.
>But if the problem is the rims, why only now with the new tyres?

get the tyres off, give the rims a damned good clean, and preferably pain
'em inside as well.

Loose rust flakes cna be sharp; replacing tyres can loosen flakes...

You can put "Wolf" rims on it, of course, which will let you run tubeless if
you want. Cleaning the rims whoudl work equally well. Decent tyre-fitter
should have done that, of course, rather than leave crud in there to wear
holes in the tubes.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
Robert Frost (1874-1963) from Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening

 

R

Richard Brookman

Guest

• Aug 17, 2005

• #3

so ChelseaTractor was, like...
> I decided I needed to replace my tyres, and found some well priced
> tubeless, which I now have on my old inner tubes & rims. After
> several years without punctures on my old tyres, I have suffered five
> in the the past 2 months.
>
> The boys at my local tyre shop say it's the rims (which are pretty
> rusty inside, I admit), and I should replace them with tubeless rims.
> But if the problem is the rims, why only now with the new tyres?

Generally, most tubeless tyres should not be fitted with tubes at all AIUI.
The inside of the tyre can abrade the tube and lead to - well, several
punctures in 2 months... If you've invested in new tyres, go the whole hog
and get tubeless rims as well.

--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Aug 17, 2005

• #4

In message <[email protected]>
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> On or around 17 Aug 2005 01:36:05 -0700, "ChelseaTractor"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >I decided I needed to replace my tyres, and found some well priced
> >tubeless, which I now have on my old inner tubes & rims. After several
> >years without punctures on my old tyres, I have suffered five in the
> >the past 2 months.
> >
> >The boys at my local tyre shop say it's the rims (which are pretty
> >rusty inside, I admit), and I should replace them with tubeless rims.
> >But if the problem is the rims, why only now with the new tyres?
>
> get the tyres off, give the rims a damned good clean, and preferably pain
> 'em inside as well.
>
> Loose rust flakes cna be sharp; replacing tyres can loosen flakes...
>
> You can put "Wolf" rims on it, of course, which will let you run tubeless if
> you want. Cleaning the rims whoudl work equally well. Decent tyre-fitter
> should have done that, of course, rather than leave crud in there to wear
> holes in the tubes.

Noting that Wolf rins are available in tubed or tubeless format.
Personaly I always have tubes as well on my vehicles - the only proviso
being that "the little rubber grommety thing" (which most tyre places
have never heard of) must be fitted round the valve. I've not had
any problem with punctures, but then Kevin The Tyre always cleans
the rims with a soft wire brush and air line before fitting.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems

 

A

AJH

Guest

• Aug 17, 2005

• #5

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 11:55:32 +0100, "Richard Brookman"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Generally, most tubeless tyres should not be fitted with tubes at all AIUI.

My understanding also, but this was largely die to poorer heat
dissipation from the tube.

>The inside of the tyre can abrade the tube and lead to - well, several
>punctures in 2 months...

The army smothered mine with chalk, as a lubricant I suppose, I caught
my first puncture for years last month, a piece of loose rust had
gradually abraded a hole in the tube.

I prefer tubless where ever possible nowadays as if they do puncture
they go down more gently.

AJH

 

R

Roger & Lorraine Martin

Guest

• Aug 17, 2005

• #6

>
> Noting that Wolf rins are available in tubed or tubeless format.
> Personaly I always have tubes as well on my vehicles - the only proviso
> being that "the little rubber grommety thing" (which most tyre places
> have never heard of) must be fitted round the valve. I've not had
> any problem with punctures, but then Kevin The Tyre always cleans
> the rims with a soft wire brush and air line before fitting.
>
> Richard
> --
As the saying goes "never leave home without".....an inner tube in
your tyre and a spare one in the box. You can fix 99% of punctures
with a tube, even if the sidewall has been staked you can improvise
a patch and use a tube to get going.

 

E

EMB

Guest

• Aug 17, 2005

• #7

beamendsltd wrote:

> Noting that Wolf rins are available in tubed or tubeless format.
> Personaly I always have tubes as well on my vehicles - the only proviso
> being that "the little rubber grommety thing" (which most tyre places
> have never heard of) must be fitted round the valve.

Based on my experience on what appear to be Wolf rims (not readily
available here but I have a set that arrived on a vehicle) - If the
correct inner tube is used (with a TR15 valve) the grommet thing it not
needed - it is only used to adapt TR13 valves to the 5/8" hole used in
these rims.

--
EMB

 

W

[email protected]

Guest

• Aug 18, 2005

• #8

I wouldn't recommend using Wolf rims on a series, I believe you would
find that the studs aren't long enough to even pull flush to the wheel
nut. My experiance anyway with Wolf rims on a late 80's 110. New
studs are rather steep at around ten pounds each....

Regards

William MacLeod

 

C

ChelseaTractor

Guest

• Aug 18, 2005

• #9

> The boys at my local tyre shop say it's the rims (which are pretty
> rusty inside, I admit), and I should replace them with tubeless rims.
> But if the problem is the rims, why only now with the new tyres?

Thanks folks. Confusingly, I had a chat with my friendly local LR parts
supplier, and he said there is no such thing as a (specifically)
tubeless rim. He suggests just pulling out inner tube, and maintains
that the valve "grommet thingy" will work on my old bog standard rims.
Is he right? I guess I'll go and find out, but meanwhile, opinions are
welcome.

 

E

EMB

Guest

• Aug 18, 2005

• #10

ChelseaTractor wrote:
>>The boys at my local tyre shop say it's the rims (which are pretty
>>rusty inside, I admit), and I should replace them with tubeless rims.
>>But if the problem is the rims, why only now with the new tyres?
>
>
> Thanks folks. Confusingly, I had a chat with my friendly local LR parts
> supplier, and he said there is no such thing as a (specifically)
> tubeless rim. He suggests just pulling out inner tube, and maintains
> that the valve "grommet thingy" will work on my old bog standard rims.
> Is he right? I guess I'll go and find out, but meanwhile, opinions are
> welcome.
>
He's wrong, it's dangerous. More on this tomorrow (my time) when I'm
not on the wrong end of a hard day's work, my business partner's brother
hasn't just died, and I'm not drinking scotch.

--
EMB

 

C

ChelseaTractor

Guest

• Aug 18, 2005

• #11

Thanks EMB. The guys at the tyre shop agree with you; the ridge inside
the tubeless rim prevents a tubeless tyre falling off if punctured.

So my only options are to change the tyres or the rims. :-(

 

C

ChelseaTractor

Guest

• Aug 18, 2005

• #12

....if Wolf rims dont fit the Series 3 studs, any suggestions for cheap
/ used tubeless rims?

 

B

beamendsltd

Guest

• Aug 18, 2005

• #13

In message <[email protected]>
"ChelseaTractor" <[email protected]> wrote:

> ...if Wolf rims dont fit the Series 3 studs, any suggestions for cheap
> / used tubeless rims?
>

Most of the White/Grey/Silver modulars and eight-spoke wheels are
either tubeless or available in that flavour.

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Aug 18, 2005

• #14

On or around 17 Aug 2005 16:15:22 -0700, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>I wouldn't recommend using Wolf rims on a series, I believe you would
>find that the studs aren't long enough to even pull flush to the wheel
>nut. My experiance anyway with Wolf rims on a late 80's 110. New
>studs are rather steep at around ten pounds each....
>

odd, seeing as the wolf ones are pressed steel. mebbe the offset is
different, or they don't sit right on drum brakes? I can't see the actual
material being that much thicker - I put 8-spokes on my 1985 110, which are
a thick (compared with standard wheels) material, but the nuts/studs were
fine.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine... War is hell"
Gen. Sherman (1820-1891) Attr. words in Address at Michigan Military
Academy, 19 June 1879.

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Aug 18, 2005

• #15

On or around 18 Aug 2005 02:04:22 -0700, "ChelseaTractor"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>> The boys at my local tyre shop say it's the rims (which are pretty
>> rusty inside, I admit), and I should replace them with tubeless rims.
>> But if the problem is the rims, why only now with the new tyres?
>
>Thanks folks. Confusingly, I had a chat with my friendly local LR parts
>supplier, and he said there is no such thing as a (specifically)
>tubeless rim.

Series rims and steel 110 rims are tube-type, because the centres are
rivetted into the rim, therefore, they're not guaranteed to be air-tight.
The Wolf rims as discussed are welded construction, and thus should be
air-tight. Tubeless rims also normally have a ridge around the inside,
where the tyre bead seats, I think this is supposed to make the tyre
unseating slightly less likely, in the event of a deflation. Chances are,
it doesn't work.

Your parts-bloke is not completely correct, although for standard steel LR
wheels, he is. You should have tubes in all standard steel wheels ('cept
for one specifically known to be tubless type).

Whoever made the comment about tubeless tyres is also right up to a point -
tubeless tyres have a sealing bit around the edge of the bead, and some have
internal ridges which can wear through the tube. Mind, I've seen 'em marked
"tubeless" and then "on tube-type rim, use inner tube".
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine... War is hell"
Gen. Sherman (1820-1891) Attr. words in Address at Michigan Military
Academy, 19 June 1879.

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Aug 18, 2005

• #16

On or around Thu, 18 Aug 2005 16:11:23 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>In message <[email protected]>
> "ChelseaTractor" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> ...if Wolf rims dont fit the Series 3 studs, any suggestions for cheap
>> / used tubeless rims?
>>
>
>Most of the White/Grey/Silver modulars and eight-spoke wheels are
>either tubeless or available in that flavour.
>

's true. And similar money to the wolf ones, at that.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine... War is hell"
Gen. Sherman (1820-1891) Attr. words in Address at Michigan Military
Academy, 19 June 1879.

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Aug 18, 2005

• #17

On or around Thu, 18 Aug 2005 22:49:03 +1200, EMB <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>ChelseaTractor wrote:
>>>The boys at my local tyre shop say it's the rims (which are pretty
>>>rusty inside, I admit), and I should replace them with tubeless rims.
>>>But if the problem is the rims, why only now with the new tyres?
>>
>>
>> Thanks folks. Confusingly, I had a chat with my friendly local LR parts
>> supplier, and he said there is no such thing as a (specifically)
>> tubeless rim. He suggests just pulling out inner tube, and maintains
>> that the valve "grommet thingy" will work on my old bog standard rims.
>> Is he right? I guess I'll go and find out, but meanwhile, opinions are
>> welcome.
>>
>He's wrong, it's dangerous. More on this tomorrow (my time) when I'm
>not on the wrong end of a hard day's work, my business partner's brother
>hasn't just died, and I'm not drinking scotch.

bummer about the partner. Don't overdo the scotch, you'll regret it in the
morning
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine... War is hell"
Gen. Sherman (1820-1891) Attr. words in Address at Michigan Military
Academy, 19 June 1879.

 

E

EMB

Guest

• Aug 18, 2005

• #18

Austin Shackles wrote:

> bummer about the partner. Don't overdo the scotch, you'll regret it in the
> morning

Thanks Austin. And I didn't overdo it - I was just unwinding at the end
of what had been a fairly arduous day. This morning the sun is shining,
there isn't a cloud in the sky and winter appears to have left us at
least for a while.


--
EMB

 

E

EMB

Guest

• Aug 18, 2005

• #19

Austin Shackles wrote:
> Tubeless rims also normally have a ridge around the inside,
> where the tyre bead seats, I think this is supposed to make the tyre
> unseating slightly less likely, in the event of a deflation. Chances are,
> it doesn't work.

It works resonabley well - yess they fall of if driven totally flat, but
without the ridge they fall off when the pressure gets much below
about 15psi (voice of experience here - I had a play with some tubeless
205R16's on a set of SWB rims a while back just to see what would happen).


--
EMB

 

L

Larry

Guest

• Aug 18, 2005

• #20

Unless he wants you to be a regular customer ..


--
Larry
Series 3 rust and holes


"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around 17 Aug 2005 01:36:05 -0700, "ChelseaTractor"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
.. Cleaning the rims whoudl work equally well. Decent tyre-fitter
> should have done that, of course, rather than leave crud in there to wear
> holes in the tubes.
> --
> Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
> "The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep,
> And miles to go before I sleep."
> Robert Frost (1874-1963) from Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening