Series master cylinders

grindermods · Sep 25, 2023

Hello all

Just wondering about master cylinders.
Got a 1967 series11a lwb with servo. the brake master cylinder clearly has a bigger bore than the clutch.

But all the items on ebay are listed as being clutch or brake. Implying they are are same.

Also my brake master uses a bigger uninion on the out line. So i would at least have to cut it off and change it to smaller type?

Any thoughts or recommendations appreciated.
Cheers

lynall · Sep 25, 2023

grindermods said:
Hello all

Just wondering about master cylinders.
Got a 1967 series11a lwb with servo. the brake master cylinder clearly has a bigger bore than the clutch.

But all the items on ebay are listed as being clutch or brake. Implying they are are same.

Also my brake master uses a bigger union on the out line. So i would at least have to cut it off and change it to smaller type?

Any thoughts or recommendations appreciated.
Cheers

Remote servo?

kermit_rr · Sep 25, 2023

There were 2 types of early brake cylinder, cv and cb (which has a hex end cap)
The cv type i think it's the same as the clutch

Turboman · Sep 25, 2023

grindermods said:
Hello all

Just wondering about master cylinders.
Got a 1967 series11a lwb with servo. the brake master cylinder clearly has a bigger bore than the clutch.

But all the items on ebay are listed as being clutch or brake. Implying they are are same.

Also my brake master uses a bigger uninion on the out line. So i would at least have to cut it off and change it to smaller type?

Any thoughts or recommendations appreciated.
Cheers

That is probably a CB type master cylinder. If you can post a picture of the cylinder, with the top plate of the pedal box off, we can confirm.
Do you have a remote servo fitted? And what engine does the vehicle have? And do you think this is the original engine fitted in the vehicle?

steve2286w · Sep 25, 2023

Have you single or dual line brakes, if you need to buy choose wisely

Turboman · Sep 25, 2023

steve2286w said:
Have you single or dual line brakes

View attachment 298707 View attachment 298708

Neither of those is anything like what my '67 2a 109" had.

Mine had the remote fluid reservoir, separate pipes to a CB type master, which fed the remote servo and the brakes, and a CV type master which fed the clutch slave cylinder.

Your pics look like what I would expect to find on a 4 cylinder Series 3.

Wildefalcon · Sep 25, 2023

That's the S3 parts book.

kermit_rr · Sep 25, 2023

This is the CB type

grindermods · Sep 25, 2023

Cheers for quick response.

Yes its got a remote servo. And its a 6cylinder petrol. I presume its orginal engine?!?!

Turboman · Sep 25, 2023

grindermods said:
Cheers for quick response.

Yes its got a remote servo. And its a 6cylinder petrol. I presume its orginal engine?!?!

Mine was also a 6 cylinder, and that is what I expected to see.
CB type master cylinder on the brakes, if the brakes are original, it will have the 3" wide twin leading shoe drums on the front.
That set up needs the CB type master, to provide enough flow of fluid to the servo assisted larger brakes.
If you need to replace the brake parts, you will also need the 3" wide shoes, and the right slave cylinders, which are also specific to those brakes.
Worth it, though, 6 cylinder is a lovely drive, and stops very well if you can get it all set up properly.

Do you know what make the remote servo is?

And do you think the servo is working?

grindermods · Sep 25, 2023

Turboman said:
Mine was also a 6 cylinder, and that is what I expected to see.
CB type master cylinder on the brakes, if the brakes are original, it will have the 3" wide twin leading shoe drums on the front.
That set up needs the CB type master, to provide enough flow of fluid to the servo assisted larger brakes.
If you need to replace the brake parts, you will also need the 3" wide shoes, and the right slave cylinders, which are also specific to those brakes.
Worth it, though, 6 cylinder is a lovely drive, and stops very well if you can get it all set up properly.

Do you know what make the remote servo is?

And do you think the servo is working?

Only just got the s11a. First job was get her running which was really easy. Needed a dizzy and cap and leads. All in a box that came with it! Then i fudged a hif48 carb on. Orginal was missing. Side question? What should it have. Any how she started lovely and soon ran clean. ( i had poured diesel in all the pots)

How would i know if the servo was working?

So since it runs next i would like.to get clutch working. Unfortunately it has been in a pedal pressed down postion. Guess this has done the clutch pressure plate springs no good. Bit hopefully will function enough for a field test drive to see what gearbox is like?

Bit bonkers.....but....as the clutch master cylinder is seized.....ive connected the clutch slave cylinder to the servo. Its pumped fluid through and bled up ok. But the clutch does not spring back by its self? Was hoping to drive round the field with it?

Turboman · Sep 25, 2023

grindermods said:
Only just got the s11a. First job was get her running which was really easy. Needed a dizzy and cap and leads. All in a box that came with it! Then i fudged a hif48 carb on. Orginal was missing. Side question? What should it have. Any how she started lovely and soon ran clean. ( i had poured diesel in all the pots)

How would i know if the servo was working?

So since it runs next i would like.to get clutch working. Unfortunately it has been in a pedal pressed down postion. Guess this has done the clutch pressure plate springs no good. Bit hopefully will function enough for a field test drive to see what gearbox is like?

Bit bonkers.....but....as the clutch master cylinder is seized.....ive connected the clutch slave cylinder to the servo. Its pumped fluid through and bled up ok. But the clutch does not spring back by its self? Was hoping to drive round the field with it?

Servo test, engine off, pump the brake pedal a few times, then start the engine with your foot on the brake pedal. You will feel the pedal go down if the servo is working. You need the whole system assembled and bled up before doing this.

Original brake servo on mine was a Clayton Dewandre inline unit. I don't think Clayton Dewandre are around now, but you might be able to get a seal kit.

Carb, I think, would originally have been a Solex, although not certain, someone else may remember.

Clutch, the clutch itself may be fine, it could be the hydraulics are shot, or the slave pushrod may have gone through the arm.

If that was mine, I would be looking to restore it as much as possible to original condition. Bodges are OK for testing, but in good original condition one of those is probably worth about 20 grand now, and a fantastic thing to own and drive as well.

steve2286w · Sep 25, 2023

Wildefalcon said:
That's the S3 parts book.

My bad

grindermods · Sep 25, 2023

Turboman said:
Servo test, engine off, pump the brake pedal a few times, then start the engine with your foot on the brake pedal. You will feel the pedal go down if the servo is working. You need the whole system assembled and bled up before doing this.

Original brake servo on mine was a Clayton Dewandre inline unit. I don't think Clayton Dewandre are around now, but you might be able to get a seal kit.

Carb, I think, would originally have been a Solex, although not certain, someone else may remember.

Clutch, the clutch itself may be fine, it could be the hydraulics are shot, or the slave pushrod may have gone through the arm.

If that was mine, I would be looking to restore it as much as possible to original condition. Bodges are OK for testing, but in good original condition one of those is probably worth about 20 grand now, and a fantastic thing to own and drive as well.

Cheers. Yes using the brake pedal as a clutch pedal is definitely a temporary job. It then made me relise the clutch was in pedal pressed postion. Managed to move it back up into the slave using a spanner as a lever. Im just getting to know the old girl pocking around to see what ive got. Before making a plan for restoration.
Did you see the attched pic on previous post of servo.

Cheers

grindermods · Sep 25, 2023

grindermods said:
Cheers. Yes using the brake pedal as a clutch pedal is definitely a temporary job. It then made me relise the clutch was in pedal pressed postion. Managed to move it back up into the slave using a spanner as a lever. Im just getting to know the old girl pocking around to see what ive got. Before making a plan for restoration.
Did you see the attched pic on previous post of servo.

Cheers

She been parked for 20 years but thankfully inside so does.have some.good points.

Turboman · Sep 26, 2023

grindermods said:
Cheers. Yes using the brake pedal as a clutch pedal is definitely a temporary job. It then made me relise the clutch was in pedal pressed postion. Managed to move it back up into the slave using a spanner as a lever. Im just getting to know the old girl pocking around to see what ive got. Before making a plan for restoration.
Did you see the attched pic on previous post of servo.

Cheers

I have now. That is a Clayton Dewandre servo. I had a look on the net last night, and you can get seal kits for them.
It may not even need one, they are pretty robust units, and were fitted on Rolls Royce, as well as many other vehicles.

grindermods · Sep 26, 2023

Turboman said:
I have now. That is a Clayton Dewandre servo. I had a look on the net last night, and you can get seal kits for them.
It may not even need one, they are pretty robust units, and were fitted on Rolls Royce, as well as many other vehicles.

Brill. Thanks for the id. On the servo. I own part of a rolls royce!

Turboman · Sep 26, 2023

grindermods said:
Brill. Thanks for the id. On the servo. I own part of a rolls royce!

Not sure if it was the same model of Servo that was fitted on Rollers, but some were made by Clayton Dewandre.
A six cylinder 109" is quite a prestigious motor in it's own right.
The late Queen Elizabeth had one, it was supposed to be a favourite of hers among her many cars, and she was pictured driving it around her estates herself.

grindermods · Sep 26, 2023

Turboman said:
Not sure if it was the same model of Servo that was fitted on Rollers, but some were made by Clayton Dewandre.
A six cylinder 109" is quite a prestigious motor in it's own right.
The late Queen Elizabeth had one, it was supposed to be a favourite of hers among her many cars, and she was pictured driving it around her estates herself.

Cheers. Thats quite motavating. Hopefully this winter will give me the time to make the old girl prestigious. Not so dignified with no doors or floors! Although the rest is complete and i do have the doors.

Turboman · Sep 26, 2023

grindermods said:
Cheers. Thats quite motavating. Hopefully this winter will give me the time to make the old girl prestigious. Not so dignified with no doors or floors! Although the rest is complete and i do have the doors.

The best thing about doing up old Land Rovers is that almost all the parts are available, and there is a huge range of aftermarket parts, independent suppliers, people that recondition engines, etc.

Have a look in the Member's Vehicles and Projects area of the forum. There are at least 2 people working on 6 cylinders at the moment, but I think one has decided to fit a different engine.

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