Series 3 series 3 diesel smoking

Hi everyone,

sorry for posting yet another thread about smoking diesel engine...

I recently bought a 'smoking' Series 3 thinking that I can easily fix it. (I know...) :-\

Changed the timing chain and sprockets (old timing, cam or pump, was out by a tooth!)
The pump drive gear master spline is now in line at 20 deg as it should (was about 45 deg before)
New serviced CAV pump now fitted.
so I thought I fixed it...
it start a little better (but not well when cold) and still smoke, less but still a lot. and needs some hand throttle until warm.
I had to advance the pump timing quite a bit despite the chain timing improvement.
I guess next step will be injectors and lift pump but I am a bit doubtful now...
Although the lift pump seems strange in a way that the manual lever seem to loose resistance after a couple of pump... so I assume it may be gone.

The smoke is blue and black, but smells of diesel rather than oil, and quite puffy.
there is no fumes coming from rocket cover breather of oil filler when cap is removed

I have also been wondering wether the throttle cable needs to be synced between pump and butterfly...?

any hep would be greatly appreciated...

Have you checked the injectors ?
Check the injector spray pattern and if good have you got the kit to check the injector pop off pressures ? They should pop off at around 130bar. Do not rely on so called diesel refurbishing companies to get the pressures correct, I have had a set that smoked and when checked varied from 110 to 170 bar. Whilst the injectors are out make sure all the sealing washers are out as I have seen engines with two and three old seals in there, if the seals are not to badly stuck they should come out with a pencil.
Butterfly flap is at best a disaster. I binned mine on a series three and blanked of the spindle position. Vacuum was then altered by fitting an electric vacuum pump triggered from the brake light switch, checkout eBay to see if a guy in Holland still sells them. Mine was a Hella U28. Two hours to fit and with all above done.NO SMOKE

divie said:

Have you checked the injectors ?
Check the injector spray pattern and if good have you got the kit to check the injector pop off pressures ? They should pop off at around 130bar. Do not rely on so called diesel refurbishing companies to get the pressures correct, I have had a set that smoked and when checked varied from 110 to 170 bar. Whilst the injectors are out make sure all the sealing washers are out as I have seen engines with two and three old seals in there, if the seals are not to badly stuck they should come out with a pencil.
Butterfly flap is at best a disaster. I binned mine on a series three and blanked of the spindle position. Vacuum was then altered by fitting an electric vacuum pump triggered from the brake light switch, checkout eBay to see if a guy in Holland still sells them. Mine was a Hella U28. Two hours to fit and with all above done.NO SMOKE

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thank you. I have a spare set of injectors tested 'ok' by CJ Diesel, so will fit them next. I've ordered a lift pump too.
are you saying that there could be a correlation between throttle butterfly /pump lever position that can cause heavy smoke?

Have you done a compression test on the engine?

tottot said:

Have you done a compression test on the engine?

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nope, would like to eliminate the 'easy ones' first...
are you thinking oil?
would it breath out oil fumes if that was the case?

Easy enough to do a compression test, testers can be had for £ 40 ish. You are wasting time/money on other items if compression is not decent.
Poor sealing of the piston will result in heavy breathing. Poor valves and valve stem fit and seals tends to result in the symptoms you have, a mix of oil and unburnt fuel smoke with puffing. As the engine gets up to temp smoke clears some. [ getting up to temp on the gauge at stand still in not good enough, you have to drive it ]

I 'll change injectors next as I have a set anyway, and I guess compression have to be the next thing.

tottot said:

Easy enough to do a compression test, testers can be had for £ 40 ish. You are wasting time/money on other items if compression is not decent.
Poor sealing of the piston will result in heavy breathing. Poor valves and valve stem fit and seals tends to result in the symptoms you have, a mix of oil and unburnt fuel smoke with puffing. As the engine gets up to temp smoke clears some. [ getting up to temp on the gauge at stand still in not good enough, you have to drive it ]

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I agree it should be done, but the smoke is blue and doesn't smell like oil, unburnt diesel is probably the best description. not really that puffy, just a lot of it.

+1 to compression test. You are looking for differences more than absolute values. Very hard to diagnose from exhaust if one cylinder is doing something different to the others. You can (I have) had one cylinder burning oil and another low on comp producing white smoke. Wasted time trying to work it out. Did a compression test and stripped the engine down the next day, over 100 psi difference between cylinders: broken rings and scored bores. Its a Perkins with dry-liners so I could rebuild it.

Had similar to above with my series 3. Two crappy pistons. If there is not enough compression with a diesel the charge will not ignite [ compression ignition remember ] or ignite fully at the right time.

ideally you should use dti to set exhaust peak when fitting chain gears. Don't forget the bushing for the fuel injection pump drive can wear badly which effectively retards pump timing relative to crank and cam. As for butterfly open it wide and check if smoke improves

adrian hogg said:

ideally you should use dti to set exhaust peak when fitting chain gears. Don't forget the bushing for the fuel injection pump drive can wear badly which effectively retards pump timing relative to crank and cam. As for butterfly open it wide and check if smoke improves

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did all that, changed chain etc. timing is now spot on. a little play on drive gear but not too bad.
did the butterfly test last night, no major difference.

tottot said:

Had similar to above with my series 3. Two crappy pistons. If there is not enough compression with a diesel the charge will not ignite [ compression ignition remember ] or ignite fully at the right time.

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thank you. I fear that...
has anyone have experience of similar smoking due to poor injectors?

Are all the heater plugs working ok, have you the original ones that work in series or the later mod parallel wired ones fitted

A very poor injector [ one that has a poor spray pattern to the point of dribbling ] will cause smoke but it will be white and stink of diesel.

steve2286w said:

Are all the heater plugs working ok, have you the original ones that work in series or the later mod parallel wired ones fitted

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I think so yes, starts ok but needs a good 20s preheat when cold... is that normal?

tottot said:

A very poor injector [ one that has a poor spray pattern to the point of dribbling ] will cause smoke but it will be white and stink of diesel.

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well the smoke definitely stinks of diesel but it's kind of blueish

Which points to a mix of diesel and oil.

so I was in the process of changing the injectors, and found that there is no bottom 'seat' in cal 4 (where the steel washer seats.
what happened there? is that part of the hot spot? has it moved?

There should be special copper washers in there , it’s not a hot spot