Sailsbury Diff removal.

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Lee_D

Guest
Ok it's looking more and more like the Diff has to come out (see Whrirr 101
Diff thread).

Much talk is made of a speader (which I don't have) and some talk of prybars
(gemmi?).

Discuss.


Lee D


 
Lee_D wrote:

> Ok it's looking more and more like the Diff has to come out (see Whrirr
> 101 Diff thread).
>
> Much talk is made of a speader (which I don't have) and some talk of
> prybars (gemmi?).
>
> Discuss.
>
>
> Lee D


See workshop manual. You will note two recesses each side of the diff
housing opposite the pinion side. To remove the diff assembly it is
necessary to move these apart slightly using a some form of spreader. One
variety uses a screw between the end of a pair of pivoted arms with lugs to
go in the socket about half way along each arm. As the force needed is
considerable, the whole setup has to be pretty sturdy. Fine adjustment is
needed as it is important to only spread the housing just enough, overdo it
and you permanently distort the housing, converting it to scrap.
JD
 

"JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lee_D wrote:
>
>> Ok it's looking more and more like the Diff has to come out (see Whrirr
>> 101 Diff thread).
>>
>> Much talk is made of a speader (which I don't have) and some talk of
>> prybars (gemmi?).
>>
>> Discuss.
>>
>>
>> Lee D

>
> See workshop manual. You will note two recesses each side of the diff
> housing opposite the pinion side. To remove the diff assembly it is
> necessary to move these apart slightly using a some form of spreader. One
> variety uses a screw between the end of a pair of pivoted arms with lugs
> to
> go in the socket about half way along each arm. As the force needed is
> considerable, the whole setup has to be pretty sturdy. Fine adjustment is
> needed as it is important to only spread the housing just enough, overdo
> it
> and you permanently distort the housing, converting it to scrap.
> JD


And what a crap idea it is. The responsibility for this abominable creation
is the Dana Corporation of America. What WERE they thinking of? Why did they
not make the hole a few millimetres bigger?

Huw


 
Huw wrote:

> And what a crap idea it is. The responsibility for this abominable creation
> is the Dana Corporation of America. What WERE they thinking of? Why did they
> not make the hole a few millimetres bigger?


Presumably you are being tongue in cheek ?

Steve
 
JD wrote:
> Lee_D wrote:


> See workshop manual. You will note two recesses each side of the diff
> housing opposite the pinion side. To remove the diff assembly it is
> necessary to move these apart slightly using a some form of spreader. One
> variety uses a screw between the end of a pair of pivoted arms with lugs to
> go in the socket about half way along each arm.


Hence I made the tool, I used a dial gauge to measure the spread
accurately, and at 6 thou deflection, the diff gauge fell out into my
waiting hands. Others have used chains and twelve foot scaffolding
poles. Take your pick....

Steve
 
Steve Taylor <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz
funny about:
> JD wrote:
>> Lee_D wrote:

>
>> See workshop manual. You will note two recesses each side of the diff
>> housing opposite the pinion side. To remove the diff assembly it is
>> necessary to move these apart slightly using a some form of
>> spreader. One variety uses a screw between the end of a pair of
>> pivoted arms with lugs to go in the socket about half way along each
>> arm.

>
> Hence I made the tool, I used a dial gauge to measure the spread
> accurately, and at 6 thou deflection, the diff gauge fell out into my
> waiting hands. Others have used chains and twelve foot scaffolding
> poles. Take your pick....
>
> Steve


A scary movie.... (20 meg mind!)

http://www.zen79997.zen.co.uk/diff/diff.MOV

Lee D


 
On Friday, in article
<[email protected]>
[email protected] "Steve Taylor" wrote:

> JD wrote:
> > Lee_D wrote:

>
> > See workshop manual. You will note two recesses each side of the diff
> > housing opposite the pinion side. To remove the diff assembly it is
> > necessary to move these apart slightly using a some form of spreader. One
> > variety uses a screw between the end of a pair of pivoted arms with lugs to
> > go in the socket about half way along each arm.

>
> Hence I made the tool, I used a dial gauge to measure the spread
> accurately, and at 6 thou deflection, the diff gauge fell out into my
> waiting hands. Others have used chains and twelve foot scaffolding
> poles. Take your pick....



6 thou?

All that for just 6 bloody thou!?

It seems a tad excessive, doesn't it.
--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."
 
David G. Bell wrote:
> 6 thou?
>
> All that for just 6 bloody thou!?
>
> It seems a tad excessive, doesn't it.


Its a hell of a load on the case though to get that deflection, so the
bearings get a very hefty preload. Quite clever really.

Steve
 

"Steve Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Huw wrote:
>
>> And what a crap idea it is. The responsibility for this abominable
>> creation is the Dana Corporation of America. What WERE they thinking of?
>> Why did they not make the hole a few millimetres bigger?

>
> Presumably you are being tongue in cheek ?
>


Of course not. Do *you* think it is a good idea to have to use a case
expander to get the diff out?

Huw


 

"Steve Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> David G. Bell wrote:
>> 6 thou?
>>
>> All that for just 6 bloody thou!?
>>
>> It seems a tad excessive, doesn't it.

>
> Its a hell of a load on the case though to get that deflection, so the
> bearings get a very hefty preload. Quite clever really.
>


Clever? It's you that's joking now. You must be? It's a bloody abomination.
Lucky then that they are generally reliable and strong so they don't need
much attention normally.

Huw


 
Huw wrote:
they are generally reliable and strong so they don't need
> much attention normally.


You don't think that speaks for itself ?

Steve
 

"steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Huw wrote:
> they are generally reliable and strong so they don't need
>> much attention normally.

>
> You don't think that speaks for itself ?
>


No!
There are tens and hundreds of thousands of different reliable diffs in all
kind of vehicles that don't need case expanders to remove.

Huw


 
Huw wrote:
> "steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Huw wrote:
>> they are generally reliable and strong so they don't need
>>> much attention normally.

>> You don't think that speaks for itself ?
>>

>
> No!
> There are tens and hundreds of thousands of different reliable diffs in all
> kind of vehicles that don't need case expanders to remove.


Different ? You reckon ?

Steve
 
steve <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
>>> You don't think that speaks for itself ?
>>>

>>
>> No!
>> There are tens and hundreds of thousands of different reliable diffs
>> in all kind of vehicles that don't need case expanders to remove.

>
> Different ? You reckon ?
>
> Steve


Well I think I've now got my head around the principle. The expander is not
as I thought to afford enough space to get the crown wheel out but infact to
release the preload which is generated by the case it's self (in the
horizontal pane) and the correct shimming of the bearings to sort out the
Diff backlash. In effect shoehorning the diff in and out, but the amount of
actual movement is minimal.

I've probably been told that twice today but until you actually work it out
in your own mind then it's meaningless or it was to me...

I've also got my head around the crushable collapseable doofer to again set
up the preload of the pinion... I had to do a similar thing (minus the
collapseable bit) when I assembled the IIa/Jag auto conversion transfer
case.

I can now see the logic in Steves hypothasis and understand that the design
whilst frustrating to the technical lego experts like myself is actually a
positive... several hours ago I was cossing it somewhat though.

There has to be some strength in this principle as it's pretty much the only
off the shelf Landrover Diff people flock to when uprating drivetrains, such
as myself fitting a Sailsbury axle on my swb IIa when insalling the Jag
lump. I was ignorant as to why they were better but now feel I've seen the
light.

Having also done further reading I wish Landrover had fitted some of the LSD
/ Lockers available from Dana range which would have further improved the
standard performance of the marque, but I suppose it's a bit like the
Freelander and Low ratios, how many will actually ever really need it.

Lee D


 
Huw wrote:
> "Steve Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Huw wrote:
>>
>>> And what a crap idea it is. The responsibility for this abominable
>>> creation is the Dana Corporation of America. What WERE they
>>> thinking of? Why did they not make the hole a few millimetres
>>> bigger?

>>
>> Presumably you are being tongue in cheek ?
>>

>
> Of course not. Do *you* think it is a good idea to have to use a
> case expander to get the diff out?
>
> Huw



Well, could at least one of you explain the pros & cons of either?

--

Subaru WRX 'get behind me you weak minded fools'[
Range Rover 4.6 HSE 'comfy ride to hell'
KTM 520, 'not for the faint hearted as they say.........'

We might be going on a summer holiday, the Greece Ball rally!!!!


 
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 23:14:55 +0100, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Well I think I've now got my head around the principle.


I'm a bit lost on them too.

When you pull yours apart you'll have to let me know and ill pop round
and have a gander.
I often dont understant stuff properly till ive seen it being pulled
to pieces!

are 101 diffs a different ratio to 109 salisburies then? I can find
you a 109 salisbury axle.
 
Tom Woods <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny
about:
> I'm a bit lost on them too.
>
> When you pull yours apart you'll have to let me know and ill pop round
> and have a gander.
> I often dont understant stuff properly till ive seen it being pulled
> to pieces!
>
> are 101 diffs a different ratio to 109 salisburies then? I can find
> you a 109 salisbury axle.


Stage 1 (109) 3.56:1
Nearly all other 109's 4.7:1
101 5.57:1

Thanks for the thought though.

Lee D


 
On or around Fri, 30 Jun 2006 12:17:47 +0100, "Huw"
<hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:

>> and you permanently distort the housing, converting it to scrap.
>> JD

>
>And what a crap idea it is. The responsibility for this abominable creation
>is the Dana Corporation of America. What WERE they thinking of? Why did they
>not make the hole a few millimetres bigger?


have to agree with Huw, there. There's no good reason for making an
aperture which is fractionally too small. and IIRC the difference is really
small, not more than about 1 or 2mm.

what I don;t know is why people don't, instead of ****ing around with
stretching the casing, take and angle grinder to the edges of the hole and
make it the mm or so wider that it needs to be. Is there any good reason
not to?
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"
George Orwell (1903 - 1950) Animal Farm
 

"Nige" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Huw wrote:
>> "Steve Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Huw wrote:
>>>
>>>> And what a crap idea it is. The responsibility for this abominable
>>>> creation is the Dana Corporation of America. What WERE they
>>>> thinking of? Why did they not make the hole a few millimetres
>>>> bigger?
>>>
>>> Presumably you are being tongue in cheek ?
>>>

>>
>> Of course not. Do *you* think it is a good idea to have to use a
>> case expander to get the diff out?
>>
>> Huw

>
>
> Well, could at least one of you explain the pros & cons of either?
>


Cons of Salisbury [Dana] axle....... case needs expanding to remove diff
Pros of other axles....... case does not need expanding to remove diff.

Huw


 

"steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Huw wrote:
>> "steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Huw wrote:
>>> they are generally reliable and strong so they don't need
>>>> much attention normally.
>>> You don't think that speaks for itself ?
>>>

>>
>> No!
>> There are tens and hundreds of thousands of different reliable diffs in
>> all
>> kind of vehicles that don't need case expanders to remove.

>
> Different ? You reckon ?
>
> Steve


I have many tractors of many brands with diffs in front and back axles, all
of which have cast iron housings and none of which need expanders
[obviously] and all of which are reliable. There is no reason that Dana
could not make a reliable axle that didn't need the case stretching to
service certain components.

Huw


 
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