Series 2 S3 dash in s2a

SeriesIIa69 · Apr 20, 2019

Hi. I am looking at buying a S2a that has a S3 dashboard. My question is if it’s possible to remove the s3 dash and restore the S2 dash. I am worried that they have made so much damage to fit the s3 dash that it’s not possible to restore back to the original.
Cheers
Niklas

Blackburn · Apr 20, 2019

Has it not just been fitted with a series 3 bulkhead?

Bobsticle · Apr 21, 2019

My 2a had a 3 bulkhead fitted along with the 3 dash.

The bulkhead is not the same so I plumped for a custom job. Totally over the top for a 2 but my own little creation.

SeriesIIa69 · Apr 21, 2019

Sound like a big job to get it back to the 2a dash. I can’t not buy it because of this as it’s in good condition and good price.

Blackburn · Apr 21, 2019

Robert Owen UK are making new series bulkheads.

Bobsticle · Apr 21, 2019

SeriesIIa69 said:
Sound like a big job to get it back to the 2a dash. I can’t not buy it because of this as it’s in good condition and good price.

Have a good look round it and make sure your happy that it’s not a series three with a few bits of 2a added. You could be buying a ringer. The present owner may be unaware of its true history.
Make sure the chassis is 2a and the rest of the bodywork hasn’t been doctored.

SeriesIIa69 · Apr 22, 2019

Bobsticle said:
Have a good look round it and make sure your happy that it’s not a series three with a few bits of 2a added. You could be buying a ringer. The present owner may be unaware of its true history.
Make sure the chassis is 2a and the rest of the bodywork hasn’t been doctored.

Hi
I have the history of the car and it started of as a 2a but I can’t tell if someone has done thing and just kept the registration on it. What is the best thing to look at to make sure it’s a 2a and not a fake? I am going to test drive it on the weekend and hoping to buy but this thing with the s3 dash makes me nervous

My Old Landy · Apr 22, 2019

SeriesIIa69 said:
Hi
I have the history of the car and it started of as a 2a but I can’t tell if someone has done thing and just kept the registration on it. What is the best thing to look at to make sure it’s a 2a and not a fake? I am going to test drive it on the weekend and hoping to buy but this thing with the s3 dash makes me nervous

I would walk away if it doesn't seem right. Can you take someone who knows about series LRs? Good luck!

ciderman · Apr 22, 2019

Have a look at the Chassis at the front, on the exhaust side- if the top is flat it is a series 2 - if it has a rounded fillet in the top centre- Series 3 .

Bobsticle · Apr 22, 2019

It’s a calculation of lots of things that don’t add up. Unfortunately Land Rover wasted very little and between the series 2 and 3 so many parts became intermingled. Some late 2a’s had the headlights in the wings some had a plastic expansion tank on the radiator etc etc. Many have been upgraded over the years and made to look like the newer series 3. Let’s face it how many people go for a facelift upgrade these days. Lots.
If it’s very cheap and your not after an original concourse vehicle it matters very little. What does matter that someone hasn’t scrapped an old S2 and nailed the plates to a handy S3. This could have been done at any time in its history so it’s important you protect yourself.
Try and find someone local that can cast an eye over it that knows series Land Rovers and can help you decide if enough of it is genuine.

Blackburn · Apr 22, 2019

Often dumb irons have been replaced or whole chassis.
Post some pictures up from all sides.

SeriesIIa69 · Apr 22, 2019

I have tracked down a previous owner and he said it has a replacement bulkhead as he liked the s3 dash better and I needed rust repair. Hope he is telling the truth.
Here are som pictures.

rob1miles · Apr 22, 2019

I think its suspect. That doesn't look like a aan S2 that's had a bulkhead changed, it looks like a single vehicle that's been that way for a while. Does the engine number match? It makes me even more suspisious that the seller or PO says they changed the bulkhead "because they preferred the S3 dash" . I can understand that being done in the 80's but recently doesn't ring true. My advice - check the chassis and bulkhead numbers and plates really carefully and the engine number. What engine and gear box does it have? If its an all-syncho box my money would be on it being a ringer.

SeriesIIa69 · Apr 22, 2019

rob1miles said:
I think its suspect. That doesn't look like a aan S2 that's had a bulkhead changed, it looks like a single vehicle that's been that way for a while. Does the engine number match? It makes me even more suspisious that the seller or PO says they changed the bulkhead "because they preferred the S3 dash" . I can understand that being done in the 80's but recently doesn't ring true. My advice - check the chassis and bulkhead numbers and plates really carefully and the engine number. What engine and gear box does it have? If its an all-syncho box my money would be on it being a ringer.

Sorry I was not clear in what I wrote.
First owner 1969-1993
Second owner 1993-2006 he told me it has been changes as first owner did like s3 dash.
Third owner 2006-2019 that is now trying to sell it.

My detective skills have not been able to find first owner. Not likely to find him.
The car is sold in Sweden and has always been in Sweden so I have the vin numbers that it came with 1969. It’s a 2.25 diesel.
Thanks for all the info. I am collecting as much as I can before going to see it on Saturday.

Bobsticle · Apr 23, 2019

Check the engine. If it has strengthening ribs on the sides of its lower half it is a 'five bearing' model. These are series 3.
Check the front of the chassis before the spring mounts (dumb irons). The VIN number is 'sometimes' stamped into the steel but not always.
Check the engine number and the gearbox number. There is lots of information on dating the numbers.
Check the VIN plate on the inside of the bulkhead behind the gear sticks.
Ask him why the deep series 2 sills have been changed for series 3 narrow sills as the 3s do not easily fit on a 2 bodywork and check they dont fit properly on the brackets.
Try and find out why the series 3 hand throttle was kept. You wouldnt bother re fitting it with the bulkhead unless you had a reason.
The rear door is also from a 3 with its slot to carry the door stay. See if the holes are there that fix the missing stay to the door frame. If they are the tub is also from a series 3.

To be honest the pictures look like a series 3 that has the identity papers of a series 2.

Many people upgraded their old series 2 in the early days as the 3s were more modern and more expensive. People dont convert a rare and comparatively expensive 2 into a cheaper 3 these days.

SeriesIIa69 · Apr 23, 2019

Did manage to find one more owner. Good detective work.

It’s a series 3 -82 that he bought and used the series 2a vin number. Saad that it’s a fake as the 3 as it is today is not a bad car.

rob1miles · Apr 23, 2019

Glad you got to the bottom of this, it would have been a difficult vehicle to insure and sell. And a reminder to eveyone to post on here if they are suspicsious. Crazy thing is that an S3 and an S2A are not much different in value but an S3 faked as an S2a is near worthless. Sellet would be best advised to get it back on the S3 vin.

SeriesIIa69 · Apr 23, 2019

rob1miles said:
Glad you got to the bottom of this, it would have been a difficult vehicle to insure and sell. And a reminder to eveyone to post on here if they are suspicsious. Crazy thing is that an S3 and an S2A are not much different in value but an S3 faked as an S2a is near worthless. Sellet would be best advised to get it back on the S3 vin.

If I can get it cheap as hell I would like to try to change it back to S3 vin. Problem is how to find the old VIN number.

Bobsticle · Apr 23, 2019

Good work.
You probably wouldn’t have had any trouble but the risk is being involved in a bad accident and your insurance company not covering any costs outweigh the savings. You would be wide open to prosecution.

SeriesIIa69 · Apr 23, 2019

Bobsticle said:
Good work.
You probably wouldn’t have had any trouble but the risk is being involved in a bad accident and your insurance company not covering any costs outweigh the savings. You would be wide open to prosecution.

Hard decision. If I buy it I will try to register it back to a S3 82 instead.

I will go and look at it anyway and see.

Thanks everyone for your great advice.

Series 2 S3 dash in s2a

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