running your car on vegtable oil

Game over for Vegetable Oil / Cooking oil as fuel.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageImport_ShowContent&id=HMCE_PROD1_024771&propertyType=document


HMRC have reissued their note on how to pay tax on your veg oil (ie make it legal to put into your tank.

Basically they have closed this 'loophole' and they say it's because vegoil aint good enough to burn.

Sorry guys...

Tana.

What is the duty rate on cooking oil?

On its own, straight vegetable oil does not meet the biodiesel specification, because it is not a "diesel quality" fuel in the meaning given in HODA (2) (a) and clarified in the guidance (Business Brief 10/05) we have issued. We consider that vegetable oils require further treatment before meeting the "diesel quality" criterion.
We have concluded that vegetable oil (whether used or unused) must be processed by a method that converts the vegetable oil into a fuel suitable for use in a diesel engine - the only method we are currently aware of is the transesterification process. The reduced duty rate for biodiesel was set to provide for the additional cost of producing the fuel against the cost of producing ordinary diesel and to reflect the environmental benefits of this fuel.
We consider that the intention of the law is to give the reduced rate to fuel produced from vegetable oil and not to vegetable oil itself.
Cooking oil on its own is a fuel substitute and attracts the sulphur-free duty rate which is currently 47.10 pence per litre.

I have been running a ford focus TDi zetec on pure veg oil for about 3 moths, at first I added the oil to the diesel in a 40 to 60 ratio, but later found that the car would run just as good using oil 90% without any problem. I understand that in the Czech Republic many motorists are using rape seed oil without any diesel being added atall.

Now however, I have a Landrover Freelander TD4 with a BMW common rail engin. I tried running the car on just veg oil but I have probels starting, but once the car was warmed up the engine would run perfectly, however the fuel pump could not handle the thicker oil viscosity. I am now running the vehicle on a 30% veg oil to 70% diesel and the car has not shown any problems and seems to run perfectly, certainly the fuel pump has no problem with the mixture's viscosity whatsoever.

My question, does anyone with a better understanding of the Common Rail engine design know if I am inviting trouble from unknown mechanical difficulties that could arise by using a limited mixture of 100% veg oil within the common rail engine?

Sharon

there seems to be lots of differing views on using WVO and SVO in whatever percentages.
50/50 svo derv, seems ok, assuming you dont live in the artic circle.

there are lots of variables too. the injection pump type is prob the most important. bosch seems ok generally, whilst the lucas cav is known to cause problems. in this case the oil must be heated, hence the 2 tank system.

the age of the vehicle is another problem. cars prior to approx c1990 had rubber parts that the oil can damage. later models are safe.
another worry is warranties. i would have no problem using say 50/50 oil in my old disco, but i would only use 5% in my focus tdi.
ps. the ford handbook is confusing too, 1 page says only use derv. another page says u can use 95/5.

pps, i would have no worries using 100% wvo in an old diesel passat. worth 200 quid for example. its all about cost/benefit. if the old passat blows up who cares?

there is no real reason why later tdi diesels cant use svo etc.. but the oil must be heated as you have already discovered. the viscosity must be changed to be more like derv. heating does this.
filters must be checked and cleaned/changed regular. pref fit extra filters. heated ones are best.
some old puegeots (?) had water heated ones, u can use those.

the big problem is that almost no one has done high oil mileage in these newer tdi cars so we dont know what the long term damage could be.


the german company elsbett can supply/fit the best conversion kits. but they are expensive. 750-1500 quid.
http://www.elsbett.com/engl/index.htm
this company doesnt reccommend lucas cav pumps, and mainly use a 2 tank system. in certain cases they even suggest using a percentage mixture.

Hi everyone well i reduced the mix over xmas to only 20% as my car was not starting to well it turned out to be just the starter motor going to slow so fitted a new 1,i have run my old bus for nearly nine months now and all my work mates still take the micky,not happy about the goverment and cost of taxation on svo, we should be able to drive on any mixes as its at our own peril,i will have to post the pictures of the heat exchanger i fitted it has made a big difference to the running of the engine better and smother acceleration and of course the engine is quieter,i would be very cautious about running common rail td4 engine on svo on a high mix as i dont think the injectors will like it long term,i know the td5 suffers but they are different injectors,who really knows keep on trucking talk soon tiga.

there is a good book to read, has everything including mechanical gismo istructions to build mixing machines. Book called 'From the fryer to the fuel tank: The complete guide to using vegetable oil as an alternative fuel'. Publishers are Greenteach. I think its american which surprised me a tad. can order it over amazon. not a bad read

http://www.journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

why spend money on a book? all the info you need is here. for anyone using wvo/svo/biodiesel or thinking about it, this site is the essential starting point.

yes I have been running on WVO waste veg oil from the local take away for 3 weeks. I purchased the Disco to do just that. It works just fine.

how are you prepping it? or are you just using straight from the fryer?
have you modded the disco?
more info would be very helpful. thx.

just boil it up in a pot for about 10 minutes then filter it thrugh cloth 3 times then straight into the tank by its self. somtimes she has trouble with the thikness and definatly going to organise a way of pree heating the oil

cotton seed is the best and thinest I have used.
some other oils have been thined out with 20% diesel

I clogged up the flow of fuel from the tank/filter and had nothing coming
down the line but put diesel in and it fixed the problem.

I have changed the front filter with clear filters so I can see the flow.
that way I know whats happening .

thx for all the info, very interesting.
what are the ambient temps around your part of the world? sounds a bit warmer than the UK?
pre heating the oil is certainly pretty essential. maybe say 3 filters in line will help too?
keep us informed of your progress please.
many thx.

25-35 C av summer temp

I use two clear plastic disposable petrol filters in parrallel for volume
$3 off the shelf generic small car petrol type.
works great.

hi
was watching myth busters and top gear re-runs and you can run on veg oil but it has to be used veg oil as a lot of the sticky semmi solids disipate when used at frying temps. Have a word with local chippy coz mine was selling his to recycler for £2 for a milk churn full. he aint gettin it anymore i am lol.

white spirit is good idea though to thin it dawn
regards

Problem here in France is that Veg oil is approx the same price as diesel(65p litre) so why bother!+No Fish & Chip shops either......booooo!
Currently conducting a few experiments with Acetone as an aditive-Let you know how I get on!!!!

Hi, I'm still running my series 3 stage 1 Land Rover on vegetable oil, it's been about 4 years now, and I haven't had any problems.
I replaced the steel fuel tank with a stainless steel one, I made up using a 50 litre laundry tub, I put a heat exchanger in the tank I got from a scrap metal dealer , it came off an old air conditioner unit and it has 40 foot of 3/8" copper pipe, it's connected to the heater hoses using 2 T pieces .
It works extremely well and heats the oil up so I can switch over from diesel in under 5 minutes from starting up.
The switch over and return line switch over are controlled by two 3 port ball valves located inside the cab.
Try to avoid a steel tank, not only do they rust but they eventually cause a polymerization reaction with the oil which will flake off the sides and top of the tank and clog up your filters.
It runs a lot better on straight vegetable oil than it does on diesel, much quieter also.
Kind regards...Ron

thx for the update. all good stuff to know.
heres a nice link.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/working_lunch/6146580.stm

discoverytrail said:

hi
was watching myth busters and top gear re-runs and you can run on veg oil but it has to be used veg oil as a lot of the sticky semmi solids disipate when used at frying temps. Have a word with local chippy coz mine was selling his to recycler for £2 for a milk churn full. he aint gettin it anymore i am lol.

white spirit is good idea though to thin it dawn
regards

Click to expand...

I saw that Myth Busters show here and I was a bit disappointed with their test with the hydrogen electrolyser, A friend and me built a similar unit and fitted it on another friends Ford Falcon, we chose him to test it because he is so fastidious about recording his fuel consumption. He travelled about 1,000 km using this system to supplement his petrol consumption, it was not designed to replace his petrol as a primary fuel. He phoned recently to report his fuel savings were about 25%, this is a lot better than I expected.
The big difference between our system and the one on Myth Busters; is we used about 29% caustic soda in de-ionised water as the electrolyte, the current passing through this electrolyte is about 18 amps, and it fizzes up like a glass of water with about 10 Alka Seltzers in it.The unit I saw on Myth Busters only produced a few bubbles.
I will be making a larger unit for the Land Rover, not so much to save fuel,(it costs me virtually nothing to run it anyway) which will happen, but to increase the horse power.
When I have it up and running, I'll let you know the result.
Kind regards...Ron.

i saw a bit of a prog on telly erlier this year called it's not easy being green, the bloke on that got oil from the chippy, heated it and put it through two filter stages, added some chemical to it (cant remember what it was now) and ran his landy, 90 or 110 i think, on the neat result, which cost around a tenner for a 25ltr drum including government ripoff if memory serves. he called it bio deisel which i think you can now buy in some places. i've also seen on the web a gas conversion kit for deisels but apparently it's still illegal for a company to fit, although it's ok if you do it yourself!!

been running on part veg oil for about 2 months running fine tesco does a good deal on it gets 15 litres veg oil for £7.78 people may find better deals but it beats paying 91 pence a litre for deisel it does smell abit though but car dosent seam to mind it been freezing weather here but still starting in the early mornings

just be warned, now the colder weather is coming in, veggie oil congeals and blocks filters, if i werre you i would stick with pure diesel through the cold weather