roll cage help

hi does anyone know what spec a roll cage needs to be for competition. for example diameter of tube etc. not that i ever want to try it out! :5bbiggrinjester:

approx. 44 mm 2.5 mm wall thickness, cold drawn seamless Mildsteel or T45 CroMoly tubing

Manufacturers - Custom Cages Ltd, UK

and/or if you are going to take it to a serious(competition level)degree then when you apply for your RAC comp licence they will issue you with a 'blue book'....the most boring book ive ever read lol...but itl give you more specs and regs than you ever thought possible

I was trying to get some Red band 52mm but when I asked my local supplier they suddenly said they couldn't get it. where aboust do you guys get your redband from anywhere near Luton??? I fancy getting out the bender again and making a cage for my 90. Jai

Depends what club you are competing with.

Davec said:

Depends what club you are competing with.

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No it doesn't. The minimum MSA spec is BS1387 (known as 'blue band') 48mm outside diameter with a 3.2mm wall thickness. BS1387 is usually sold with a nominal bore of 40mm.

You can go with CDS (cold draw seamless), which is ligher and stronger but more expensive. In this case you can use 2.5mm wall tube but the outside diameter is the same.

It is also worth noting that there is a difference between tube and pipe. Pipe is measure by internal diameter and tube is measured by external diameter. This is the reason why you need a tube bender or at least tube mandrels when building a cage. You will find that the inside of the bends will flatten if the incorrect mandrel is used.

If in doubt, buy a weld together kit from QT or North Off Road.

andyb66 said:

If in doubt, buy a weld together kit from QT or North Off Road.

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I'd agree with the above suggestion But I definately wouldn't use QT Services unless you like been ripped off and robbed blind. North off road are slightly better but not much. There are plenty of other cage fabricators out there producing kits, using the same spec tubing for a lot less money.

Just two names that came to mind....without having a Google

Oooo, Whitbread Off Road as well.

andyb66 said:

No it doesn't. The minimum MSA spec is BS1387 (known as 'blue band') 48mm outside diameter with a 3.2mm wall thickness. BS1387 is usually sold with a nominal bore of 40mm.

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That assumes he is talking about an MSA Affliated Club, although I would go with one that isn't.

Davec said:

That assumes he is talking about an MSA Affliated Club, although I would go with one that isn't.

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If they run motorsport competitions then they all are. Organisations like the ALRC just add their own additional regulations. The MSA is the base line.

The original poster asked about a cage for competition.

There is no legal requirement to be part of the MSA, there are other organisations (I believe grass tracking uses a different organisation) and there is nothing to stop you running competitions with no affiliation, I know a group who did it for some years, although they are now part of the MSA. I should imagine insurance is difficult if you are not.

I seem to have got a bit side tracked.
The reason I originally asked about what club he was looking at is that over the years I have come across many people who feel there is no point in joining a club until they are ready to compete, and build the vehicle from information they have got second or third hand, then join and find they've been given wrong info or not told of a rule change and have spent time and money building a vehicle that doesn't comply.
It is then always the clubs fault!

Davec said:

I have come across many people who feel there is no point in joining a club until they are ready to compete, and build the vehicle from information they have got second or third hand, then join and find they've been given wrong info or not told of a rule change

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Then they are foolhardy people

If you intend to compete then it is best to talk to the scrutineer for the club that runs the event you wish to enter. IME they are always ready to help and give advice. I think they would rather do that than explain to someone who has spend a fair bit of cash that their vehicle doesn't met spec.

(as an aside. IIRC the Grass track governing body is GRASA (?). One of my customers is a member. As Trials Sec for my local club we were discussing the minimum number officals required for an event. You should see the list of people they have to provide to satisfy the HSE and the insurer. Just because they are not MSA! )