Rivinut

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Richard Brookman wrote:

> Well, it's got to support a rear ladder which will take my weight, so M500
> sounds right :)
>
> ISTR the holes I drilled originally were about 5mm, if that makes sense.
> This is a new fitting, though, so I can drill to suit.

This doesn't sound like a particularly robust method for mounting a
ladder which has to take the weight of a person+what they're carrying.
What are you drilling into? (if Steve can't find his M6/M8 ones give
me a shout and I can post you some, I wouldn't like to go much smaller)

Regards

William MacLeod

 
>>> don't they need a square hole? If not, what stops the bugger going
>>> round
>>> inside when you try to remove the bolt?
>>By then its clamped like buggery to the panel....
>
> hmmmm.
> --
> Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
> "My centre is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent.
> I shall attack. - Marshal Foch (1851 - 1929)

I'll second that - the base plate for the capstan winch on my series 1 was
fastened to the front cross member in this manner. After 20 years there was
no way the friction of the rivnut in the hole was any match for the friction
of the rusty bolt thread. At least carefully grinding the bolt heads and
then the rivnut itself left the original hole the right size to take another
rivnut. I think you need to think of them as "one time only".

Nick


 
....and [email protected] spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...


> Richard Brookman wrote:
>
>> Well, it's got to support a rear ladder which will take my weight,
>> so M500 sounds right :)
>>
>> ISTR the holes I drilled originally were about 5mm, if that makes
>> sense. This is a new fitting, though, so I can drill to suit.
>
> This doesn't sound like a particularly robust method for mounting a
> ladder which has to take the weight of a person+what they're carrying.
> What are you drilling into? (if Steve can't find his M6/M8 ones give
> me a shout and I can post you some, I wouldn't like to go much
> smaller)
>
> Regards
>
> William MacLeod

Well, it's what the ladder (LR part) came with, and it stood up to my
<cough> stone clambering up and down. The ladder has a top bracket that
fits over the top edge of the door, so that takes the majority of the
weight. There are two fasteners to hold the top in position and two just
below the number plate light to do likewise for the bottom. I'll go and
measure it up shortly.

--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)


 
....and Steve Taylor spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...


> Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>>> So the nuts and bolt methods is pretty good....
>>
>> but only if you can get access to the other side of the panel.
>
> No, you pull it all from the front, not squashing it from the back
> aces.
>>
>> don't they need a square hole? If not, what stops the bugger going
>> round inside when you try to remove the bolt?
> By then its clamped like buggery to the panel....
>
> Steve

Problem with rivnuts is that if you drill the hole even fractionally too
large, there is no friction on the riv bit (of the rivnut) and you can't
stop it turning as you extract the bolt. I damaged two of them in trying
(mole grips etc) and ended up having to strip out the door lining and fit a
proper bolt through. The location of the holes is behing the door lock, so
I ended up soldering the bolt to a length of stiff wire to get it into the
right position. Whole job took most of a day. That's why I need to do it
right next time!

--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)


 
On 12 Jan 2006 06:29:39 -0800, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>This doesn't sound like a particularly robust method for mounting a
>ladder which has to take the weight of a person+what they're carrying.

Swot Land Rover designed. Mine on the 200tdi Disco was the same.
Ladder was quite fine - hinges took a pounding, though...

.... not that I'm, erm...

 
....and Mother" <"@ {mother} @ spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...


> On 12 Jan 2006 06:29:39 -0800, "[email protected]"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> This doesn't sound like a particularly robust method for mounting a
>> ladder which has to take the weight of a person+what they're
>> carrying.
>
> Swot Land Rover designed. Mine on the 200tdi Disco was the same.
> Ladder was quite fine - hinges took a pounding, though...
>
> ... not that I'm, erm...

well, no, erm, me neither...

--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)


 
On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 20:02:38 -0000, "Richard Brookman"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> Swot Land Rover designed. Mine on the 200tdi Disco was the same.
>> Ladder was quite fine - hinges took a pounding, though...
>>
>> ... not that I'm, erm...
>
>well, no, erm, me neither...

Indeed, as the twenty seven 8" x 10" colour glossy photographs with
circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining
what each one was to be used as evidence against us, proves... :)


--
Kid, have you rehabilitated yourself?
 
....and Mother" <"@ {mother} @ spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...


> On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 20:02:38 -0000, "Richard Brookman"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> Swot Land Rover designed. Mine on the 200tdi Disco was the same.
>>> Ladder was quite fine - hinges took a pounding, though...
>>>
>>> ... not that I'm, erm...
>>
>> well, no, erm, me neither...
>
> Indeed, as the twenty seven 8" x 10" colour glossy photographs with
> circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining
> what each one was to be used as evidence against us, proves... :)

<fx> ba-dah dum dum...</fx>

--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)


 
NW wrote:
>
> I'll second that - the base plate for the capstan winch on my series 1 was
> fastened to the front cross member in this manner. After 20 years there was
> no way the friction of the rivnut in the hole was any match for the friction
> of the rusty bolt thread. At least carefully grinding the bolt heads and
> then the rivnut itself left the original hole the right size to take another
> rivnut. I think you need to think of them as "one time only".

Stainless ones are ok - they come undone properly even after extended
service in the wet and mud.

--
EMB
 
Richard Brookman wrote:

> Problem with rivnuts is that if you drill the hole even fractionally too
> large, there is no friction on the riv bit (of the rivnut) and you can't
> stop it turning as you extract the bolt.

Buy the proper size drill bit to go with them - they are supposed to fit
in an oddball sized hole - IIRC 8.6mm for M6 rivnuts, and 10.6 for M8 ones.

--
EMB
 
Richard Brookman wrote:

> ...and Steve Taylor spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...
>
>>Austin Shackles wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>So the nuts and bolt methods is pretty good....
>>>
>>>but only if you can get access to the other side of the panel.
>>
>>No, you pull it all from the front, not squashing it from the back
>>aces.
>>
>>>don't they need a square hole? If not, what stops the bugger going
>>>round inside when you try to remove the bolt?
>>
>>By then its clamped like buggery to the panel....
>>
>>Steve
>
>
> Problem with rivnuts is that if you drill the hole even fractionally too
> large, there is no friction on the riv bit (of the rivnut) and you can't
> stop it turning as you extract the bolt. I damaged two of them in trying
> (mole grips etc) and ended up having to strip out the door lining and fit a
> proper bolt through. The location of the holes is behing the door lock, so
> I ended up soldering the bolt to a length of stiff wire to get it into the
> right position. Whole job took most of a day. That's why I need to do it
> right next time!
>

There are many variants of these around some of which have non-round or
serrated bodies to avoid this problem - Böllhoff do a hexagonal body for
example:
http://www.bollhoff.com/web/germany/en/web.nsf/HTML/r_plus.html
http://www.bollhoff.com/web/germany/en/web.nsf/HTML/r_sonderausfuehrungen.html
as do Avdel:
http://www.avdel.textron.com/brochures/threaded_inserts/html_tables/9498.htm
It's not so easy to make the hole though.

Avoid the varieties with thin outer flanges e.g. thin sheet Nutsert:
http://www.avdel.textron.com/brochures/threaded_inserts/html_tables/9658.htm
- they need an essentially flat surface and have no tolerance of
oversize or out-of-round holes.
You're far batter with a variety that does not end up flush with the
surface if you can tolerate that:
http://www.avdel.textron.com/brochures/threaded_inserts/html_tables/9408.htm

If you have trouble with the insert rotating as you tighten the bolt,
temporarily fit a spring washer against the outer face of the insert and
behind something that will act as a counterhold (this could be the
bracket that you are attaching) while you tighten the bolt. Once the
insert has been compressed, dismantle, remove washer and reassemble.
 
Hi Steve

Im still trying to get this bloody snorkel fitted...

Ive got the rivnut, bolt and nut in place now, but when im unscrewing the
nut, the whole rivnut is turning....

Any ideas?

Mark.

9090


"Steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mother wrote:
>
> > It's a rivet _and_ a nut. IOW, you put it in like a rivet, however
> > the head, instead of being a little round hole, is actually threaded -
> > to make a nut.
> >
> >
>
> And you set them with nut and bolt. Put the nut right down the bolt to
> the head and right through the rivnut, then unscrew the nut down the
> bolt, while holding the head of the bolt steady. The nut pulls the core
> of the rivnut against the panel and locks it.
>
>
> Steve


 
Mark Solesbury wrote:
> Hi Steve
>
> Im still trying to get this bloody snorkel fitted...
>
> Ive got the rivnut, bolt and nut in place now, but when im unscrewing the
> nut, the whole rivnut is turning....
>
>

This of course is why you really need the ('kin) expensive setting tool.
Phew, er, can you nip the edge of the rivnut without marring the
paintwork ? Stick a piece of masking tape round it to protect the surface.

Failing that, where are you ?

Steve
 

"Mark Solesbury" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> WTF is a rivinut, and how do you install them?
>
> All i want to do is fit a snorkel!
>
> Mark
> 9090

Hello again.

Something strange happened to me today. I happened to call into a Main
Dealer to ask about servicing, and happened to mention the need of a rivnut
installation....

1 land rover mechanic, and the correct tool, and both rivnuts were in.

And they didnt charge me. It is good to know that there are some half decent
dealers out there! They were just happy to help.

Or was it because their eyes lit up when i mentoned it needs the cambelt
doing and a service..............................

Mark
9090


 
Mark Solesbury wrote:
>They were just happy to help.
>
> Or was it because their eyes lit up when i mentoned it needs the cambelt
> doing and a service..............................

Naaaaahh.

Steve
 
On 2006-01-13, Mark Solesbury <[email protected]> wrote:

> Or was it because their eyes lit up when i mentoned it needs the cambelt
> doing and a service..............................

I'd imagine that helped, a 24,000 mile service and a cambelt
replacement cost me £1,000 recently.

The brakes still pull to the right despite them stripping and cleaning
the fronts and finding stuck pistons and leaky seals. I suspect it's
the rears, the rear driver's side locks up a long time before the
passenger side when I leap on the pedal.

Blasted fecking confounded heap of ol' junk!

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
Mark Solesbury wrote:
>They were just happy to help.
>
> Or was it because their eyes lit up when i mentoned it needs the cambelt
> doing and a service..............................

Naaaaahh.

Steve
 
Mark, don't try the nut n bolt method if your going any bigger than M4
you'll never get enough pressure to crush the nutsert witihout maybe
snapping the bolt.

These are very common in sheet metal work, I'm sure if you find a local one
they would gladly put these in for you, if not for free than for a
reasonable fee.

I would go for M6 as these are the most common ones found on LR, they keep
the roof over your head.

Unfortunately the tools are very expensive I am lucky enough to use them at
work and have battery and manual options, petty your not near Wolverhampton.

HTH, Roy.

"Mark Solesbury" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> WTF is a rivinut, and how do you install them?
>
> All i want to do is fit a snorkel!
>
> Mark
> 9090
>
>


 
Bollhoff now have a min order £75 so unless you need loadsa rivnuts forget
it ;-(

Roy.

"Dougal" <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Richard Brookman wrote:
>
>> ...and Steve Taylor spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...
>>
>>>Austin Shackles wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>So the nuts and bolt methods is pretty good....
>>>>
>>>>but only if you can get access to the other side of the panel.
>>>
>>>No, you pull it all from the front, not squashing it from the back
>>>aces.
>>>
>>>>don't they need a square hole? If not, what stops the bugger going
>>>>round inside when you try to remove the bolt?
>>>
>>>By then its clamped like buggery to the panel....
>>>
>>>Steve
>>
>>
>> Problem with rivnuts is that if you drill the hole even fractionally too
>> large, there is no friction on the riv bit (of the rivnut) and you can't
>> stop it turning as you extract the bolt. I damaged two of them in trying
>> (mole grips etc) and ended up having to strip out the door lining and fit
>> a proper bolt through. The location of the holes is behing the door
>> lock, so I ended up soldering the bolt to a length of stiff wire to get
>> it into the right position. Whole job took most of a day. That's why I
>> need to do it right next time!
>>
>
> There are many variants of these around some of which have non-round or
> serrated bodies to avoid this problem - Böllhoff do a hexagonal body for
> example:
> http://www.bollhoff.com/web/germany/en/web.nsf/HTML/r_plus.html
> http://www.bollhoff.com/web/germany/en/web.nsf/HTML/r_sonderausfuehrungen.html
> as do Avdel:
> http://www.avdel.textron.com/brochures/threaded_inserts/html_tables/9498.htm
> It's not so easy to make the hole though.
>
> Avoid the varieties with thin outer flanges e.g. thin sheet Nutsert:
> http://www.avdel.textron.com/brochures/threaded_inserts/html_tables/9658.htm
> - they need an essentially flat surface and have no tolerance of oversize
> or out-of-round holes.
> You're far batter with a variety that does not end up flush with the
> surface if you can tolerate that:
> http://www.avdel.textron.com/brochures/threaded_inserts/html_tables/9408.htm
>
> If you have trouble with the insert rotating as you tighten the bolt,
> temporarily fit a spring washer against the outer face of the insert and
> behind something that will act as a counterhold (this could be the bracket
> that you are attaching) while you tighten the bolt. Once the insert has
> been compressed, dismantle, remove washer and reassemble.


 
In message <[email protected]>
"LR90" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Bollhoff now have a min order £75 so unless you need loadsa rivnuts forget
> it ;-(
>
> Roy.

<shameless plug>

We have various nutserts in stock - 22p to 54p depending on size,
M5 and M8 and (I think) M10, the others I've not noted their size but
could probably work it out. They are widely used on late model vehicles
for holding on mud flaps, side steps etc.

</shameless plug>

Richard


>
> "Dougal" <DougalAThiskennel.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Richard Brookman wrote:
> >
> >> ...and Steve Taylor spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...
> >>
> >>>Austin Shackles wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>So the nuts and bolt methods is pretty good....
> >>>>
> >>>>but only if you can get access to the other side of the panel.
> >>>
> >>>No, you pull it all from the front, not squashing it from the back
> >>>aces.
> >>>
> >>>>don't they need a square hole? If not, what stops the bugger going
> >>>>round inside when you try to remove the bolt?
> >>>
> >>>By then its clamped like buggery to the panel....
> >>>
> >>>Steve
> >>
> >>
> >> Problem with rivnuts is that if you drill the hole even fractionally too
> >> large, there is no friction on the riv bit (of the rivnut) and you can't
> >> stop it turning as you extract the bolt. I damaged two of them in trying
> >> (mole grips etc) and ended up having to strip out the door lining and fit
> >> a proper bolt through. The location of the holes is behing the door
> >> lock, so I ended up soldering the bolt to a length of stiff wire to get
> >> it into the right position. Whole job took most of a day. That's why I
> >> need to do it right next time!
> >>
> >
> > There are many variants of these around some of which have non-round or
> > serrated bodies to avoid this problem - Böllhoff do a hexagonal body for
> > example:
> > http://www.bollhoff.com/web/germany/en/web.nsf/HTML/r_plus.html
> > http://www.bollhoff.com/web/germany/en/web.nsf/HTML/r_sonderausfuehrungen.html
> > as do Avdel:
> > http://www.avdel.textron.com/brochures/threaded_inserts/html_tables/9498.htm
> > It's not so easy to make the hole though.
> >
> > Avoid the varieties with thin outer flanges e.g. thin sheet Nutsert:
> > http://www.avdel.textron.com/brochures/threaded_inserts/html_tables/9658.htm
> > - they need an essentially flat surface and have no tolerance of oversize
> > or out-of-round holes.
> > You're far batter with a variety that does not end up flush with the
> > surface if you can tolerate that:
> > http://www.avdel.textron.com/brochures/threaded_inserts/html_tables/9408.htm
> >
> > If you have trouble with the insert rotating as you tighten the bolt,
> > temporarily fit a spring washer against the outer face of the insert and
> > behind something that will act as a counterhold (this could be the bracket
> > that you are attaching) while you tighten the bolt. Once the insert has
> > been compressed, dismantle, remove washer and reassemble.
>
>

--
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