Range Rover 4.6 HSE Porous Block

Hi all,

I have just had a major failure of my engine (4.6) due to the porous
block issue. There were no indications whatsoever until the pinking
started very swiftly followed by my gliding to a halt on the hard
shoulder. Isn't it bizarre that these engines don't have a water level
indicator?

After some advice on the way forward. Some thoughts as follows (not
saying that I'll follow these through - just thinking at this stage):

1. Complain and seek some contribution from specialist that serviced
the vehicle at 72k just 4 weeks ago and were asked to look for possible
water leak but forund nothing.

2. Complain and seek some contribution from Land Rover. No doubt they
would deny there was a problem despite a large number of individuals
suffering the same fate - any independent Land Rover specialist can
confirm this. Has anyone else had any joy persuing Land Rover in court
for a clearly defective design?

3. Have engine repaired at cost of approx 3k.

4. Buy uprated engine from someone like RPI Engineering.

5. Have Chevy LS1/06 engine fitted. See http://www.chevroletls1.com
Anyone know someone who could fit this if I went down this route?

The car is in immaculate condition so I will be putting it back on the
road.

Regards and thanks in advance for contributions.

AlanC

In message <[email protected]>
"AlanC" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I have just had a major failure of my engine (4.6) due to the porous
> block issue. There were no indications whatsoever until the pinking
> started very swiftly followed by my gliding to a halt on the hard
> shoulder. Isn't it bizarre that these engines don't have a water level
> indicator?
>
> After some advice on the way forward. Some thoughts as follows (not
> saying that I'll follow these through - just thinking at this stage):
>
> 1. Complain and seek some contribution from specialist that serviced
> the vehicle at 72k just 4 weeks ago and were asked to look for possible
> water leak but forund nothing.
>

I can't see it would be fair to blame them, apart from a very slight
drop in water level it's usually impossibe to tell there is a
problem until something lets go big-time.

> 2. Complain and seek some contribution from Land Rover. No doubt they
> would deny there was a problem despite a large number of individuals
> suffering the same fate - any independent Land Rover specialist can
> confirm this. Has anyone else had any joy persuing Land Rover in court
> for a clearly defective design?

I don't know about anyone winning, but doubtless plenty have
complained to LR.

>
> 3. Have engine repaired at cost of approx 3k.

Don't! Buy a new block/short engine/engine.

>
> 4. Buy uprated engine from someone like RPI Engineering.

That's always an option.

>
> 5. Have Chevy LS1/06 engine fitted. See http://www.chevroletls1.com
> Anyone know someone who could fit this if I went down this route?
>

That would put an awful load on your transmission that it's not
designed for - it has been done, but why spoil a good car? "Refined"
is not a word that I'd associate with those engines (in Defenders,
anyaway).

> The car is in immaculate condition so I will be putting it back on the
> road.
>
> Regards and thanks in advance for contributions.
>
> AlanC
>

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive

beamendsltd wrote:

> That would put an awful load on your transmission that it's not
> designed for - it has been done, but why spoil a good car? "Refined"
> is not a word that I'd associate with those engines (in Defenders,
> anyaway).

I'll second Richard's comment about overloading the transmission, but I
beg to differ about the refinement - the current Chevrolet V8s are a
world different from their predecessors.

--
EMB

"beamendsltd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:c8cfea5e4e%[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>
> "AlanC" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have just had a major failure of my engine (4.6) due to the porous
> > block issue. There were no indications whatsoever until the pinking
> > started very swiftly followed by my gliding to a halt on the hard
> > shoulder. Isn't it bizarre that these engines don't have a water level
> > indicator?
> >
> > After some advice on the way forward. Some thoughts as follows (not
> > saying that I'll follow these through - just thinking at this stage):
> >
> > 1. Complain and seek some contribution from specialist that serviced
> > the vehicle at 72k just 4 weeks ago and were asked to look for possible
> > water leak but forund nothing.
> >
>
> I can't see it would be fair to blame them, apart from a very slight
> drop in water level it's usually impossibe to tell there is a
> problem until something lets go big-time.
>
> > 2. Complain and seek some contribution from Land Rover. No doubt they
> > would deny there was a problem despite a large number of individuals
> > suffering the same fate - any independent Land Rover specialist can
> > confirm this. Has anyone else had any joy persuing Land Rover in court
> > for a clearly defective design?
>
> I don't know about anyone winning, but doubtless plenty have
> complained to LR.

And as far as I am aware, only won if it failed whilst still under warranty.

> > 3. Have engine repaired at cost of approx 3k.
>
> Don't! Buy a new block/short engine/engine.

And then live with the ticking time-bomb under the bonnet, just waiting to
happen again! Landrover have never modified the block in any way to prevent
this issue from reoccurring, they go by the theory that by the time it
happens it'll be out of any warranty!

> > 4. Buy uprated engine from someone like RPI Engineering.
>
> That's always an option.

Best option by far is to repair by fitting top-hat liners. Chances are
you'll exchange your block for one already done as opposed to having your
own block back. Some firms offering this service are better than others, I'd
suggest talking to V8 developments or ACR in the first instance, but be
aware an exchange block is around £900, and you still have the cost of the
rest of the engine rebuild parts & labour on top of that. I'd stay well
clear of progress engineering though, just had a block that they did fail,
due to incorrect fitment of the liners.
For any engines I build that require re-linered blocks, these are the two
companies that I now deal with, and their work is excellent. RPI, as far as
I am aware, only supply original blocks so there is always the danger of it
failing again in the future.

> > 5. Have Chevy LS1/06 engine fitted. See http://www.chevroletls1.com
> > Anyone know someone who could fit this if I went down this route?
> >
>
> That would put an awful load on your transmission that it's not
> designed for - it has been done, but why spoil a good car? "Refined"
> is not a word that I'd associate with those engines (in Defenders,
> anyaway).

LS1 is a lovely engine, nice and smooth power delivery, but as Richard says,
your transmission will "spit the dummy"!


Badger.
B.H.Engineering,
Rover V8 engine specialists.
www.bhengineering.co.uk
www.roverv8engines.com

Guys,

Thanks for all the advice. Badger - until Oct 04 I was flying Nimrods
from RAF Kinloss, I'm now down in Cheltenham - where exactly are you
located?

The more I look into this the more I'm leaning towards an engine from
V8 developments. As has been stated, why replace a engine with a known
liner problem with another? Anyone any experience with V8
developments? I've e-mailed them but no repsonse as yet. I should get
the opportunity to call them tomorrow as I travel to the Goodwood
Revival.

Keep the advice/tips coming.

Regards

AlanC

"AlanC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Guys,
>
> Thanks for all the advice. Badger - until Oct 04 I was flying Nimrods
> from RAF Kinloss, I'm now down in Cheltenham - where exactly are you
> located?

Upper Hempriggs, 2 miles from Kinloss, just round the corner from "Thumper",
if you know who I mean. Spent many a happy year working on the line at
Kinloss, before they screwed up all the shifts, then I ran the engine test
bed at Lossie until I got seriously disillusioned and took redundancy.

> The more I look into this the more I'm leaning towards an engine from
> V8 developments. As has been stated, why replace a engine with a known
> liner problem with another? Anyone any experience with V8
> developments? I've e-mailed them but no repsonse as yet. I should get
> the opportunity to call them tomorrow as I travel to the Goodwood
> Revival.

Don't bother e-mailing them, they take forever to return any mails. Phone
them and ask for Ray. See what sort of price they want and let me know, it
may be cheaper to send your engine to me and get me to do the rebuild with
one of their blocks, believe it or not! Their workmanship in terms of the
re-linering the block is excellent.
Badger.

Hi Badger,

I do indeed know 'Thumper' and where he lives so I know roughly where
you are. No doubt our paths crossed as I signed over another broken
aircraft ;-)

V8 Developments have not replied to my e-mail so I phoned them this
morning and will almost certainly be having my car taken up to them.
I've looked into the LS1 option with all the mods etc that that route
would involve and the price would be well over 12k. I think it would
result in an awesome car but the cost is excessive and I dread to think
what the insurance company would do to the premium.

Anyway, I'll report back on what I have done, at what cost and what the
results are.

Top tip, if your P38 is using water (a small amount) then look at
getting the liners changed as when it all goes horribly wrong things
happen very quickly - not helped by the fact that Land Rover failed to
fit a water level warning indicator.

Happy motoring

AlanC

Badger wrote:
> "AlanC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Guys,
> >
> > Thanks for all the advice. Badger - until Oct 04 I was flying Nimrods
> > from RAF Kinloss, I'm now down in Cheltenham - where exactly are you
> > located?
>
> Upper Hempriggs, 2 miles from Kinloss, just round the corner from "Thumper",
> if you know who I mean. Spent many a happy year working on the line at
> Kinloss, before they screwed up all the shifts, then I ran the engine test
> bed at Lossie until I got seriously disillusioned and took redundancy.
>
> > The more I look into this the more I'm leaning towards an engine from
> > V8 developments. As has been stated, why replace a engine with a known
> > liner problem with another? Anyone any experience with V8
> > developments? I've e-mailed them but no repsonse as yet. I should get
> > the opportunity to call them tomorrow as I travel to the Goodwood
> > Revival.
>
> Don't bother e-mailing them, they take forever to return any mails. Phone
> them and ask for Ray. See what sort of price they want and let me know, it
> may be cheaper to send your engine to me and get me to do the rebuild with
> one of their blocks, believe it or not! Their workmanship in terms of the
> re-linering the block is excellent.
> Badger.