Question on timing and stuff...

Hi guys,

Changed the timing belt and noticed that the cam mark was slightly out. I put it all back together with the marks as they were (looks like one tooth out) and now there appears to be a rattle/knock noise that comes and goes. It's more prominent when the motor is cold once run a bit it goes away... I am now wondering if I didn't tighten the belt enough and if I am going to go back in there can I "just" move the cam to line up with the mark if I have the locking pins in place in the fuel sprocket and flywheel? I have included a photo of the cam and marks...

Anything else I should check? And how many kms do you think I can do? We are in the middle of El Salvador and first wanted to find a spot to work on it in Costa Rica...It's not idling rough, its pulling good and no more smoke than "normal". So not sure what the problem could be other than not tight enough timing belt.
... on the plus side replacing the crank sprocket oil seal did fix my oil leak

Thanks in advance for the help,
Gary
www.adventure-continued.com

That doesn't look too bad to me but then again the picture has been taken at a slight angle so parallax error could be causing that effect. If you look square on would moving the pulley by one tooth actually make it align properly, if so then it should be re-timed and use the correct markings. Whatever you do, do not loosen the three pulley bolts on the cam sprocket as they set the camshaft to pulley relationship. You will need to release the belt tension and remove the belt to reset the cam timing. You need to get the basics sorted first before you look deeper.

That does look a little out to me. When I retimed mine, I found the best way was to slid a finger down the side of the marking and see which pulley tooth it lined up with.

Then the GF produced a makeup compact and I used the mirror off that. MUCH easier to see when the parallax error is removed.

For me though as long as it's within a half tooth I wouldn't worry over much. They are not super critical on timing, and yes you may lose a little power but it's only going to be a couple of percent at a half tooth out.

Agreed, it doesn't look too bad, especially if you try to visualise it from straight on. If it's running well I'd just keep a weather ear open for strange noises for a while ...

Paul D said:

Agreed, it doesn't look too bad, especially if you try to visualise it from straight on. If it's running well I'd just keep a weather ear open for strange noises for a while ...

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That's exactly the problem Paul, I wouldn't have worried too much if it was out a little as it pulls good and doesn't smoke more than normal.

I guess the big issue is the strange noise when idling it kind of sounds like a slapping or knocking noise, I've heard engine knock before and it doesn't sound like that... I thought maybe for a moment that I hadn't tightened the belt properly or perhaps didn't tighten the tensioner enough as it didn't make the noise immediately. It took a few days to show itself. Also at higher idle speeds the sound goes away and when I take my foot from the gas the noise starts again. Since I changed the oil seals could it also be that the crank pully is not 100% aligned with the other pulls anymore? I didn't want to take a hammer to it when I slipped it back onto the crank shaft...

I guess it's a bit hard to diagnose 10,000kms away without hearing or seeing anything but any hints or advice I would appreciate.. maybe I could take a video and post it on YouTube or something...

The trouble with odd rattles and knocks is they always seem to happen when you've fixed one thing, thus making it quieter, so you hear something else ... and immediately think you've not actually properly fixed whatever it was ...

I don't think I'd worry about the timing, but I would look at the other bearings and pulleys along the auxiliary belt .. Alternator, waterpump, powersteering pump, belt tensioner etc etc .. All can develop those kinds of noises, a broken ball in one, a worn set of balls or races in another. I'd take the aux belt off and check each one in turn, starting with the water pump pulley (Mine recently did it) checking that the pullet and pump rotate freely without any wobble at all. Similarly the belt tensioner should ratate extremely freely without any wobble. Alternator should rotate a little less freely, but listen for crunchy noises when rotating it and that the pulley doesn't wobble ... Same with PS pump, free to rotate with a push but shouldn't rotate ... Even the viscous fan might cause odd noises if the bearing goes on it ..

Basically check out anything that rotates or moves, and that it only moves in the plane it should do ..

Thanks again Paul,

I took a small video and posted it up to youtube. It's definitely a new noise not something that was there and we didn't hear it. I am hyper sensitive to all noises anyway especially after 50k and over 500 days driving through the Americas. That noise developed a couple days after the belt change, after taking it for a test run and hearing nothing to what you can hear in the video.



My biggest problem is obtaining parts - The only thing I can think of is that I did something wrong or not 100% right. I know the timing is slightly out but that won't have us stuck, a bad bearing in the wrong place or snapped timing belt will...

thanks again for the advice, any more would be equally appreciated!

Just out of interest did you use a flywheel locking pin or line the timing marks up by eye?

Marmaduke said:

Just out of interest did you use a flywheel locking pin or line the timing marks up by eye?

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Hi marmaduke, i bought the tool kit with locking pins and other special tools, that's what came out when locking the flywheel and putting the fuel pump locking tool in, woodruff key was at 12 o'clock.
The real issue now is the noise though, it kinda scares me since we are in El Salvador with only 2 weeks on our visa and 2 more countries to go through (Honduras and Nicaragua)

What is the noise giving you cause for concern. That doesnt sound overly bad to me..? Or perhaps I'm used to mine rattling too much.

chris-the-gerbil said:

What is the noise giving you cause for concern. That doesnt sound overly bad to me..? Or perhaps I'm used to mine rattling too much.

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Err wow ours never knocked and thwapt so much before...I can't believe that the noise doesn't jump out at you

Since I love a good challenge figured you all would love to get in on the fun too.... Today I started the Defender up and no funny noise at all... not quite believing my ears I decided to film it for prosperity sake and also to make sure I wasn't going mad..err madder...

Ignore the slight chirp of the aux belt, that's "normal"... Compare this to the video from yesterday and you can definitely make out the differences.. but what the heck is it?

er ... yeah, I see (hear) what you mean ..

No idea, mate, no idea .. Hope that helps ... sorry ...