Probably a really stupid question but.....

Hi folks,
First post here so please be kind. I have a couple of series 3's, one a petrol 2.25 I use from time to time and the other, which I bought many years ago (15 plus!) with a view to renovating has sat in my garage waiting time for me to have a crack at it, the engine a 2.5 n/a diesel effectively blew up when I was driving it home and it has sat in my garage ever since through divorce and re-marriage, hell and high water. Well the time has come to finally start having at go at picking up the rebuild. One of the things I also did many years ago was buy a new 2.5 block as I was able to pick up a new old stock short engine very reasonably priced with the intention of fitting all the usable ancillaries etc. from the old engine. I had a new Turner engineering head made up to replace the old cracked cylinder head and after doing some work on the body work myself things ground to a halt through personal upheavals. I now have the new engine block on a stand and I am starting to strip out, clean and relocate on the new engine all the decent bits I can salvage from the old one. I have though hit a snag. I just don't know how to remove the DPS pump from the timing cover. All the other pulleys came off with ease but the DPS pulley baffles me. The workshop manual I have seems rather vague. The pulley turns in both directions and so the nut goes around with the pulley and so I am at a loss as to how to dismantle the final pulley in the timing cover and withdraw the DPS pump. The timing cover has a fault in as much as one of the mounting studs near the sump has a crack in it and so I need to source and rebuild the timing cover. I may have found a timing cover which will replace the damaged one. Any kind soul out there able to give me the heads up on what I need to do to remove the pulley/DPS pump?
I was, probably am still a bit naive as regards all things engines but when I bought this vehicle originally I thought what better way to learn than to jump in and have a go and what better vehicle to learn on than an old landy. I have to admit that indeed I've learnt a lot since owning this, not least a lot of interesting swear words but somehow they don't seem to help!

What's a DPS?

Not entirely sure what the initials stand for but it is how it is described in the workshop manual. It is connected to and distributes the fuel between the injectors.

NickRJ said:

It is connected to and distributes the fuel between the injectors.

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So the fuel injection pump? Not sure on yours but normally you unbolt the pump and take the pump and pulley off in one.

EDIT: ignore that it would appear they don't on LR 2.5N/A, is yours like this? Is there a hole in the timing case behind the pulley that one of the holes in the pulley will line up with so you can put a drill bit through to hold the pulley whilst un doing the nut?

Yup, mine is just like that. I couldn't see any holes behind the tapped holes in the pulley when I rotated it and so I did try threading a bolt into one of the holes in the pulley wheel and holding it firmly while putting a spanner on the nut. Result a bent bolt!. The bent bolt did unscrew from the hole without any damage to the parts but I'm still no further forward with understanding how to dismantle it. The workshop manual seems to imply that you undo the three nuts on the pump which are attached to the studs in the rear of the timing case housing but apart from loosening up the pump it doesn't come out and wiggling it backwards and forwards seems to show that it is fixed to the spindle which the pulley nut is screwed down onto, if that makes sense?

The defender manual and the sherpa manual show the use of a special tool to remove pulley.

Thank you Blackburn. I wonder if the special tools or some equivalent will still be available. I would be perfectly happy to have a crack at making something to do the job if only I knew how the special tool worked on this particular pulley as it is different from the others which only rotated in one direction. Not sure I can glean how it operates from the drawing in the manuals.

I completely stripped and rebuilt one of those engines in my 110, now powered by a 200tdi.
It was 14 yrs ago and all I can remember buying was a 41mm ? Socket for the crank pulley bolt.
I can't remember how I locked the FIP (fuel injection pump) but I can remember that I didn't have any special tool. Knowing me I probably jammed the pulley with a cold chisel or something placed between the pulley teeth and the timing case. I did borrow a kit of some sorts to set the pump timing when it all went back together though.

And all the pulley's will rotate both ways. Not sure what you mean.

Ignore that, I've just re-read the manual as shown in your first attached file above, the special tool is only used to pull the pulley off the shaft after the retaining nut is removed. At item no.5 under the heading Remove timing belt and pulleys it says "Slacken and remove the distributor pump timing pulley nut".It doesn't mention the special tool for this. My problem is that the nut simply goes around with the shaft when you get a spanner on it. The special tool only comes into play two steps later. If I can get the nut off I think the pulley will come quite easily as the others did without needing to resort to special tools, it's just that nut that has me scratching my head.

Flossie said:

I completely stripped and rebuilt one of those engines in my 110, now powered by a 200tdi.
It was 14 yrs ago and all I can remember buying was a 41mm ? Socket for the crank pulley bolt.
I can't remember how I locked the FIP (fuel injection pump) but I can remember that I didn't have any special tool. Knowing me I probably jammed the pulley with a cold chisel or something placed between the pulley teeth and the timing case. I did borrow a kit of some sorts to set the pump timing when it all went back together though.

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Isn't there a fly wheel locking bar/tool that fits into the starter ring and bolts to the bell housing for the engine dosen't turn. Got them for american engines

Flossie, thanks for that but somehow or other the other nuts all came off when I got a spanner on them and I've managed to remove the timing casing with the distributor pump/FIP attached to it . Maybe the other pulleys were easier because the engine was seized. I guess it may be a case of brute strength, I've not got huge quantities of that these days, or ignorance, my cup runneth over, which will sort it out in the end. I've now got the replacement timing case on order so hopefully if I do break anything it won't be anything expensive like the Distributor pump/FIP. Thor 1950, nice idea but with the timing case off the engine now I can't look to the flywheel for help....I did say I was engine naive didn't I

The pump pulling tool, 18G 1457 is for sale here:

https://www.dingocroft.co.uk/acatalog/Engine_tools1-p2.html

Might be worth trying to borrow one first at that price

NickRJ said:

Flossie, thanks for that but somehow or other the other nuts all came off when I got a spanner on them and I've managed to remove the timing casing with the distributor pump/FIP attached to it . Maybe the other pulleys were easier because the engine was seized. I guess it may be a case of brute strength, I've not got huge quantities of that these days, or ignorance, my cup runneth over, which will sort it out in the end. I've now got the replacement timing case on order so hopefully if I do break anything it won't be anything expensive like the Distributor pump/FIP. Thor 1950, nice idea but with the timing case off the engine now I can't look to the flywheel for help....I did say I was engine naive didn't I

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I believe you pull the starter and it slips in the starter hole and uses the same bolt holes as the starter

Wireman.......ouch. That's a lot of dosh for a one off job. Not least because the reason I now have the time to play with this is that I was made redundant, looks like borrowing may be the only option if brute strength doesn't work, if I can find anyone who has one. After Flossie's post it looks as though there may be a way around it without the special tool. Cold chisels I have a plenty, I used one to take the crank bolt off as that was obviously how the previous owner used to do it going by the witness marks in the nut!

Thank you everyone for your input, it has been much appreciated.

Just an idea.

Put the belt on and wind it so it bunch’s up tight then lock the end with a bolt hole somewhere in the case, you might get lucky. You might break the case but as you have said you have another one

I don’t know this engine, just from looking at pics, so if I am full of then let me know

J

Found one here, a bit cheaper:

https://www.thexmod.com/item_detail.asp?id=27985

Buy it, use it, put it on ebay - recoup some (or all) of your money.

One on ebay but a bit more expensive.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rov...244582&hash=item1e97e02b5a:g:4BAAAOSw7ThUq71I

8 people are watching so its of interest to some.

Thank you Marjon and Wireman. Good suggestions. I'll probably go for the cheaper tool route and then ebay it.

If you made a piece of plate up with a large enough hole in centre for a socket to fit on securing bolt you could then drill some holes for bolts to locate in the holes around the pulley which would allow you to hold the pulley still whilst unloosening the nut.
The other tool looks quite simple to make threaded centre and two holes for the bolts that hold it to pulley centre one pushes the pump shaft backwards according to manuals probably needs a small steel boss so that internal threads are protected.