poorly fitted battery clamp... sparks!!

hi,
thanks to all who gave me advice last week on buying a 1995 defender
90. i got it home in one piece on the ferry and i'm really delighted
with it. it's in basically good shape (300 TDi engine feels great,
only 35k miles), and the chassis and bulkead are rust free, although
there are small signs of rot at the bottom of the doors, which i have
read is fairly common. not the end of the world.

i noticed the previous owner didn't have the battery very well secured.
it has a small metal which sits along the upper corner of the battery,
and is held in place by 2 metal pegs that latch under the floor on each
side of the battery compartment. 2 nuts at the end of each peg go
through the metal bar and hold it tight over the battery. i noticed as
i was tightening these nuts that sparks appeared where the pegs latch
on to the floor of the compartment. i was obviously alarmed because i
only have limited electrical experience and you hear awful stories of
guys in trucks who hit power lines etc.. i guess this is only 12 volts
though. anyway i had the manual in the car and i read that no metal
should ever touch the terminals on the battery. one of the
plastic/rubber terminal covers was missing, and the previous owner had
clamped the bar right under the exposed negative terminal, so it was
touching metal, and connected to the floor through the bar and the peg.
i assume this is the cause of the sparks? as a temporary measure i
removed the clamp bar altogether and made sure no metal is touching the
terminals. i got out of the car and didn't get a shock anyway!

i looked around the internet and saw a picture of a defender battery
that had the bar clamped across the middle of the battery in between
the two terminals. this guy had his battery perpendicular to the car,
but mine is oriented inline with the length of the car. should i swap
it around to be perpendicular? i think the clamp could fit safely
between the terminals then.

thanks
tim

Tim_Mac <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
> hi,
> thanks to all who gave me advice last week on buying a 1995 defender
> 90. i got it home in one piece on the ferry and i'm really delighted
> with it. it's in basically good shape (300 TDi engine feels great,
> only 35k miles), and the chassis and bulkead are rust free, although
> there are small signs of rot at the bottom of the doors, which i have
> read is fairly common. not the end of the world.
>
> i noticed the previous owner didn't have the battery very well
> secured. it has a small metal which sits along the upper corner of
> the battery, and is held in place by 2 metal pegs that latch under
> the floor on each side of the battery compartment. 2 nuts at the end
> of each peg go through the metal bar and hold it tight over the
> battery. i noticed as i was tightening these nuts that sparks
> appeared where the pegs latch on to the floor of the compartment. i
> was obviously alarmed because i only have limited electrical
> experience and you hear awful stories of guys in trucks who hit power
> lines etc.. i guess this is only 12 volts though. anyway i had the
> manual in the car and i read that no metal should ever touch the
> terminals on the battery. one of the plastic/rubber terminal covers
> was missing, and the previous owner had clamped the bar right under
> the exposed negative terminal, so it was touching metal, and
> connected to the floor through the bar and the peg. i assume this is
> the cause of the sparks? as a temporary measure i removed the clamp
> bar altogether and made sure no metal is touching the terminals. i
> got out of the car and didn't get a shock anyway!
>
> i looked around the internet and saw a picture of a defender battery
> that had the bar clamped across the middle of the battery in between
> the two terminals. this guy had his battery perpendicular to the car,
> but mine is oriented inline with the length of the car. should i swap
> it around to be perpendicular? i think the clamp could fit safely
> between the terminals then.
>
> thanks
> tim

Is it possibly to grind the clamp to give you some extra clearance around
the area of the terminals?

Come the worest Halfords do or did an off the self clamp similar to yours
incase you go to far on the grind.

Are the leads long enough to rotate the battery 180 degrees thus putting the
terminals well away from the clamp IYSWIM.

Lee
--
www.lrproject.com
Reaching the parts other Landrover restorers can't reach - JLo makes new
home in the USA.
Percy IIa - two Engines to the mile, awaits a new chassis.
Morph - He's "living the dream".

"Tim_Mac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> hi,
> thanks to all who gave me advice last week on buying a 1995 defender
> 90. i got it home in one piece on the ferry and i'm really delighted
> with it. it's in basically good shape (300 TDi engine feels great,
> only 35k miles), and the chassis and bulkead are rust free, although
> there are small signs of rot at the bottom of the doors, which i have
> read is fairly common. not the end of the world.
>
> i noticed the previous owner didn't have the battery very well secured.
> it has a small metal which sits along the upper corner of the battery,
> and is held in place by 2 metal pegs that latch under the floor on each
> side of the battery compartment. 2 nuts at the end of each peg go
> through the metal bar and hold it tight over the battery. i noticed as
> i was tightening these nuts that sparks appeared where the pegs latch
> on to the floor of the compartment. i was obviously alarmed because i
> only have limited electrical experience and you hear awful stories of
> guys in trucks who hit power lines etc.. i guess this is only 12 volts
> though. anyway i had the manual in the car and i read that no metal
> should ever touch the terminals on the battery. one of the
> plastic/rubber terminal covers was missing, and the previous owner had
> clamped the bar right under the exposed negative terminal, so it was
> touching metal, and connected to the floor through the bar and the peg.
> i assume this is the cause of the sparks? as a temporary measure i
> removed the clamp bar altogether and made sure no metal is touching the
> terminals. i got out of the car and didn't get a shock anyway!
>
> i looked around the internet and saw a picture of a defender battery
> that had the bar clamped across the middle of the battery in between
> the two terminals. this guy had his battery perpendicular to the car,
> but mine is oriented inline with the length of the car. should i swap
> it around to be perpendicular? i think the clamp could fit safely
> between the terminals then.
>
> thanks
> tim
I had a look at the hymn sheet
( Defender parts manual 110 1987 onwards page 681-2)
what is shown is two J bolts which hook into the battery carrier plate and
pass through
the ends of a piece of angle ( battery clamp) which runs along the long side
of the battery on each side they are tensioned by a washer, locking nut and
a wing nut.
If the battery terminals are correctly fitted they should not foul the
clamp.
possibly:
non-standard battery- insufficient gap between edge and posts,
the battery terminal clamp is turned on the post?
is the clamp running snug along edge of the battery?
Derek

hi lee
thanks for the reply. i don't have any good grinding / cutting
equipment, just a jigsaw and drill... but, there was enough length in
the leads for me to turn it around 180 degrees. it fits in great and
the pegs align very well now crossing the middle of the battery instead
of sitting under the leads next to the terminals. i now have a safely
mounted spark-free battery.. one item off the list!
thanks again.
tim

strange that it was touching the negative terminal and caused a problem?
if it was touching the positive post, i could understand why.

hi Derek,
thanks for the reply. i just spend 100 euros on the workshop manual
and now i find out there's even more literature. i guess you can't
fault landrover on documentation.

the pieces you describe are all there in the compartment, and the
battery has a landrover sticker on it. the non-covered terminal is
slightly bent around but only 20 degrees or so off straight. in my
case, if the angle was sitting snug along the side of the battery
parallel with the terminals, it would cause a metal contact. there is
about 3mm of exposed wire at the end of the lead which probably doesn't
help. i have it working now though and it seems to make better use of
the space in the compartment. so i'll leave it as is. thanks again
for your post.
tim
p.s. does 'foul' mean causing a short circuit? i have yet to learn the
mechanic's lingo

"Tim_Mac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> hi Derek,
> thanks for the reply. i just spend 100 euros on the workshop manual
> and now i find out there's even more literature. i guess you can't
> fault landrover on documentation.
>
> the pieces you describe are all there in the compartment, and the
> battery has a landrover sticker on it. the non-covered terminal is
> slightly bent around but only 20 degrees or so off straight. in my
> case, if the angle was sitting snug along the side of the battery
> parallel with the terminals, it would cause a metal contact. there is
> about 3mm of exposed wire at the end of the lead which probably doesn't
> help. i have it working now though and it seems to make better use of
> the space in the compartment. so i'll leave it as is. thanks again
> for your post.
> tim
> p.s. does 'foul' mean causing a short circuit? i have yet to learn the
> mechanic's lingo

glad its sorted fouling usually just means something coming into contact
with summat it shouldn't e.g. pipes and wires resting on parts that move or
may cause damage - look how many wires are strung about under the bonnet the
potential for damage is huge if they were not secured away from harm. We had
a new fleet of trucks delivered from MAN a while back and every one had a
brake airline fouling the chassis result after a few 1000km the lines had
worn through
Derek

In message <[email protected]>,
Tim_Mac <[email protected]> writes
>hi,
>thanks to all who gave me advice last week on buying a 1995 defender
>90. i got it home in one piece on the ferry and i'm really delighted
>with it. it's in basically good shape (300 TDi engine feels great,
>only 35k miles), and the chassis and bulkead are rust free, although
>there are small signs of rot at the bottom of the doors, which i have
>read is fairly common. not the end of the world.
>
>i noticed the previous owner didn't have the battery very well secured.
> it has a small metal which sits along the upper corner of the battery,
>and is held in place by 2 metal pegs that latch under the floor on each
>side of the battery compartment. 2 nuts at the end of each peg go
>through the metal bar and hold it tight over the battery. i noticed as
>i was tightening these nuts that sparks appeared where the pegs latch
>on to the floor of the compartment. i was obviously alarmed because i
>only have limited electrical experience and you hear awful stories of
>guys in trucks who hit power lines etc.. i guess this is only 12 volts
>though. anyway i had the manual in the car and i read that no metal
>should ever touch the terminals on the battery. one of the
>plastic/rubber terminal covers was missing, and the previous owner had
>clamped the bar right under the exposed negative terminal, so it was
>touching metal, and connected to the floor through the bar and the peg.
> i assume this is the cause of the sparks? as a temporary measure i
>removed the clamp bar altogether and made sure no metal is touching the
>terminals. i got out of the car and didn't get a shock anyway!
>
>i looked around the internet and saw a picture of a defender battery
>that had the bar clamped across the middle of the battery in between
>the two terminals. this guy had his battery perpendicular to the car,
>but mine is oriented inline with the length of the car. should i swap
>it around to be perpendicular? i think the clamp could fit safely
>between the terminals then.
>
>thanks
>tim
>
If you are getting sparks when the clamp touches the negative terminal
that would suggest not much of an earth [none] between battery and
chassis, which needs attention. I'm surprised anything works at all.
Are you sure it was the *negative* terminal that the clamp was touching?
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

....and Tim_Mac spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...

>i got out of the car and didn't get a shock anyway!

With 12v, you won't get a shock whatever you do, but with the amps available
to start the engine shorting straight to earth, you could have a very cosy
fire in no time at all.

If there is ANY risk at all of either of the battery terminals touching any
part of the chassis or bodywork (think rough ground, everything bouncing
about), then make a permanent solution, as others have suggested. At the
very least, lay some insulating material over the terminals so that they
cannot touch anything but the battery cables. For our 4x4 club scrutineers,
a large blob of silicone sealant completely covering the terminals is
considered adequate.

--
Rich
==============================

There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary
and those who don't.

hi hugh,
thanks for your post. there was some suspect wiring with the rear
lights and i think some of the cables were mixed up, this may explain
the lack of earthing in the circuit. i have disconnected the
incorrectly wired lights until i can figure it out.

the battery is safely mounted now but i'll try the silicon trick on the
exposed terminal as richard suggested, if i can't get a proper rubber
cap for it.

cheers
tim

Tim_Mac said:

if i can't get a proper rubber cap for it.

Click to expand...

... or you could make your own cover using a cut off from an old rubber car mat.

Example here:
http://www.cameltrophyvehicles.com/downloads/battery.jpg

(This is version one. I'm now on version four and it becomes more extravagent every time! I think I'll leave product development for now, as I have run out of old car mats!)

Cheers

Blippie