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Plenty Heat Better Spin

Discussion in 'Defender 90 / 110 / 130' started by moremuckmush, Dec 8, 2021.

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  1. moremuckmush

    moremuckmush Well-Known Member

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    So the old 19j , I think I can accept that she ain't going to spring into life after one spin but what I have found is that with the new battery , 30 secs of heat on new heater plugs , she spins over nice , the warmed deisel must be nicely warmed and thinned as the cranking sound changes from the original 'chug' on the old battery after 15 seconds of heat to a nice lubricated higher rpm spin bursting into life far quicker , maybe its me but this start up tends to set the tone on the initial running/ driving . How have you guys improved start up ( better engines aside) saying this my 19j runs bladdy well , contradictory to most peeps thoughts on these engines , I suppose heating time is irrelevant as long as she always starts.
     
  2. Turboman

    Turboman Rural Activist

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    The heater plugs don't exactly warm the diesel, they warm the pre combustion chambers which the atomised diesel is about to be sprayed into.
    But that is maybe a minor semantic difference.
    My 19j was always a good starter, but it was very low mileage. Ten seconds on the glow plugs, which were quality Denso items, and it would fire up first time in any weather.
    Not so the old Perkins in my Series, that took a couple of goes on the flame starter and a good crank in cold weather, and the whole road would be full of smoke until it warmed up. :oops::D
    As you suggest, it could be the increased cranking speed that is giving you better starting. The heat for ignition comes from compression in the cylinder, so a good spin over aids starting.
     
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  3. moremuckmush

    moremuckmush Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info , I had imagined the deisel was being thinned/heated , the engine was rebuilt during the 1st lockdown by previous owner ( photos to prove) and even during the sale conversations he wasn't greatly happy that the starting procedure hadn't improved , saying this, after all the work he done , the battery on there wasn't the best and he did mention that he'd wished he fitted stock heater plugs instead of the " improved" ones he had replaced them with , hence I've reverted back to new standard ones , the only time I really get a quick fire up is if still warm , this said she cools down quickly.
     
  4. Turboman

    Turboman Rural Activist

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    You can get diesel pre-heaters, but they aren't glow plugs.
    They are used on road vehicles in places like Sweden, where the temperatures can get low enough to wax diesel even with additives.
    They are fitted in the fuel line before the filters, make sure that any wax crystals are dissolved before clogging filter elements.
    There were also bigger ones, fitted on large old diesels, mainly in ships, so that they could use locally available fuels like coconut wax, which is actually solid at ambient temperatures.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2021
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  5. tottot

    tottot Well-Known Member

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    For my well used series 3 to start well when cold I first give it a turn on the starter for two to three seconds, this introduces some fresh fuel into the combustion chambers. Ten seconds of heat and then it starts pretty quick. Give it a go, used to do the same when I had a 19j.
     
  6. moremuckmush

    moremuckmush Well-Known Member

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    Will do thanks

    Perkins : would that have been the same in my series 3 I owned over 23yrs ago ? 2.25 deisel if I recall, coming down a hill without revs the bigger clapped out and I ended up with a replacement engine.

    The other perkins I was familiar with was a 4108 in my boat, 6 knots flat out ...
     
  7. moremuckmush

    moremuckmush Well-Known Member

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    Everyday is a learning day ... Great info
     
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  8. Turboman

    Turboman Rural Activist

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    It was a 4/203, which is about 3.3 litres. Common fitment in Series in the 70s and 80s. There are several on the forum to this day.
    I have had two of those, a 4/248 in my tractor, and worked on lots of others, including several in boats.
    Speed of boats isn't always a factor of engine size, the reduction of the gearbox, and the size of the propeller will also have an input, as will the overall length of the waterline of the hull. You need less power to get a given speed with a long thin hull than with a short fat one, which is why the boats in the Boat Race are always very long and thin.
     
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  9. Turboman

    Turboman Rural Activist

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    Probably good on an old engine as well, because it will get some oil pumped into all the bearings before any load comes on them.
     
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  10. moremuckmush

    moremuckmush Well-Known Member

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    Digressing a bit but it was a bogwarner gearbox if I remember in das boat, but yes displaced Hull, prop ect all play a part.

    Remember trying to get between the piers ( South shields and tynemouth ) and the tide going out was doing near 6 knots , what a night that was trying to get her in.
     
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  11. Turboman

    Turboman Rural Activist

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    You should post some pics of the boat in the Boat Thread.
     
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  12. moremuckmush

    moremuckmush Well-Known Member

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    Yep was told when I sold her it was a Matelot 20 by a guy that had said he would have most likely worked on building her , always understood it was a hardy/colvic type of boat , I do regrett selling but needs must at the time , will sort some pics
     
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  13. Turboman

    Turboman Rural Activist

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    Colvic are a good boat. Not made any more, but still plenty about.
     
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  14. Turboman

    Turboman Rural Activist

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    Here you go.

    https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/the-lz-boat-thread.302498/
     
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  15. freelance

    freelance Well-Known Member

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    Get a higher amp/ hour battery, and ensure all battery and earth connections are clean, if it starts turning faster 3-4 spins in, it sounds like an earthing problem
     
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  16. moremuckmush

    moremuckmush Well-Known Member

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    Just extending the heat that 10 more seconds changes the spinning sound totally , far faster and a different tone if that makes sense , but good point , be worth cleaning up all the contacts
     
  17. miktdish

    miktdish Guns n Chainsaws Full Member

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    Yout heater plugs heat the air in the cylinder so that when it gets compressed it exceeds the ignition point of the diesel you are injecting in. It warms everything really not only the diesel that is injected into the cylinder. Direct injection diesels like your 19J, will typically start without heater plugs as the air temp reaches 600C, ie above the flash point of diesel (around 500C), during the compression cycle. However, if the engine is cold then the heat dissapates quickly into the cylinder walls/piston etc so the engine doesn't burn very efficiently (producing white smoke) . It doesn't take long to get the temperature up so the engine will run and will only take a few cycles to get the temperature stable enough to tick over.

    Probably, in your case, the engine needs oil flow which requires several seconds of cranking/turning over before it gets up to pressure and is pumped around the engine. I do not think it is anything to do with the heater plugs or their effect on the diesel.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2021
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  18. tottot

    tottot Well-Known Member

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    It may well be that as the contacts of the cables warm up as you turn the engine over the connection is improved because of expansion and even some arcing [ small within the contact] and so engine turns faster. As miktdish says clean all contacts. Just done this on my unstarted for several years 2a, now spinning well.
     
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  19. Turboman

    Turboman Rural Activist

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    On a direct injection engine, the heater plugs heat the air in the cylinder.
    On an indirect injection engine, the heater plugs heat the air, and the metal, of the pre-combustion chambers.

    Indirect injection don't usually start very well without heater plugs working, or a flame starter, as found on Perkins engines, which I think is a better system.
     
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  20. Britcyclerider

    Britcyclerider Active Member

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    @miktdish19J is an indirect diesel engine as the fuel is injected into pre-combustion chambers.

    Try cranking with the clutch pedal down. This removes some of the drag associated with the transmission. Engine oil viscosity also plays a part in cranking speed, especially when cold. Check you have a 15W40 engine oil as opposed to 20W50. You can even run 10W40 in winter, but you may burn and leak more.

    Since I swapped my 19J for a 200 TDI, I have missed the old starting routine. 30 s of heat and plumes of clag. It's so characterful!
     
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