PD1900 engine conversion

Has anyone put into a Land Rover a VAG PD130 or160 engine?
Ibiza FR PD130:
129 bhp @4000rpm
228 lb-ft @1900rpm


remap:
183bhp
286 lb-ft


Ibiza Cupra PD160:
158bhp @3750rpm
243 lb-ft @1900rpm

remap:
~190bhp
~300 lb-ft

I reckon they are the ultimate(unless you're going silly) 4 cylinder engine for a Land Rover.
Good power starting low down and good on fuel economy. Admittedly in a green oval badged brick you won't get the same as in a svelt Ibiza but still...

I've thought about earlier VW motors.... But I also have a mate who will GIVE me his 1998 530d Touring with BMWs M57 engine... But even the parts for the conversion cost so much that I'll probably not recoup the costs over the "economy" of the V8... because I just don't do enough milage.

Remapped TD5 would out do any of those and there are plenty in rotten Discovery 2s.

Alive are up to 300bhp

MJI said:

Remapped TD5 would out do any of those and there are plenty in rotten Discovery 2s.

Alive are up to 300bhp

Click to expand...

Wouldn't that be so highly stressed a badly timed loud fart in the cab could make it blow it's guts out all over the road behind it?
And how many sundays would one have to work to foot the cost, if a set of go faster head studs are nearly a grand?

AllanWorms said:

I've thought about earlier VW motors.... But I also have a mate who will GIVE me his 1998 530d Touring with BMWs M57 engine... But even the parts for the conversion cost so much that I'll probably not recoup the costs over the "economy" of the V8... because I just don't do enough milage.

Click to expand...

The M57 engine is a straight six. I might be wrong but i believe it's based on the M51 block which was used in the P38 so you can bolt it onto the same gearbox used in the P38.

Land Rover themselves put the M52 petrol engine in the Defender for the SA market. Presumably they used the P38 bellhousing to make it match up. But you'd also need the ECU, wiring and quite a few other bits to make a donor engine start up and work in an alien vehicle.

yfo866 said:

Has anyone put into a Land Rover a VAG PD130 or160 engine?
Ibiza FR PD130:
129 bhp @4000rpm
228 lb-ft @1900rpm


remap:
183bhp
286 lb-ft


Ibiza Cupra PD160:
158bhp @3750rpm
243 lb-ft @1900rpm

remap:
~190bhp
~300 lb-ft

I reckon they are the ultimate(unless you're going silly) 4 cylinder engine for a Land Rover.
Good power starting low down and good on fuel economy. Admittedly in a green oval badged brick you won't get the same as in a svelt Ibiza but still...

Click to expand...

What Land Rover specifically? You have a Series in your avatar or are you meaning a Defender?

I think your biggest problem would be devaluing the Land Rover with such an engine. It would be very niche to find anyone wanting to buy such a conversion. I'd also guess the cost involved in converting and doing the R&D on the conversion would be as high or higher than many other engine conversions.

You are also taking a transversely mounted engine and wanting to make it longitudinal, unless you know of other conversions that have done this with these engines.

Lastly, while the PD engine is well tuned due to the rather nasty 'Dub scene'. It isn't a miracle of science and similar performance could likely be had from pretty much any other contemporary diesel of the same displacement.

Not saying you couldn't do this. But it would probably be a whole heap easier & cheaper to swap in a Td5 and make the same performance. So I don't really see the appeal of using the VW engine.

yfo866 said:

The M57 engine is a straight six. I might be wrong but i believe it's based on the M51 block which was used in the P38 so you can bolt it onto the same gearbox used in the P38.

Click to expand...

You could, although there are other ways depending on what you are trying to achieve or how much you want to spend.

300bhp/ton said:

What Land Rover specifically? You have a Series in your avatar or are you meaning a Defender?

I think your biggest problem would be devaluing the Land Rover with such an engine. It would be very niche to find anyone wanting to buy such a conversion. I'd also guess the cost involved in converting and doing the R&D on the conversion would be as high or higher than many other engine conversions.

You are also taking a transversely mounted engine and wanting to make it longitudinal, unless you know of other conversions that have done this with these engines.

Lastly, while the PD engine is well tuned due to the rather nasty 'Dub scene'. It isn't a miracle of science and similar performance could likely be had from pretty much any other contemporary diesel of the same displacement.

Not saying you couldn't do this. But it would probably be a whole heap easier & cheaper to swap in a Td5 and make the same performance. So I don't really see the appeal of using the VW engine.

Click to expand...

I was thinking of any Landy that was shipped with a low powered engine or old Rover V8. An engine is an engine and doesn't care which way it is fitted. It only gets it's 'direction' from what is bolted to it (unless it's an A-Series Mini engine which has it's gearbox bolted beneath it) so once you have made up an adapter plate to go between the block and chosen bellhousing and mated the onput shaft to the crank, job's a good'un. This of course will generally involve throwing money at it unless you can machine materials yourself...
As for devaluing it, that's only a potential issue if you want to sell it. If it works better than the original lump i don't see it as being devalued. Not every conversion makes things worse!
The attraction of these PD engines is they are VERY tunable!!! WAY more so that a TD5.
I've just bought a 101 ambulance with it's original carb V8 fitted. I'll be looking at a PD conversion in the future for it. Or possibly a 4.6 with LPG or electric with possibly a small engine where the V8 was running a small generator for remote self charging. Whatever happens between the seats, i have a long list of jobs to go through before then.

Perhaps @300bhp/ton is alluding to the possibility that the block of a FWD engine may not have been developed or cast with engine mounting bosses, for instance, I know that whilst GM/Saab did cast all 2.2D blocks the same they only drilled the bosses for the Omega and Frontera installations making a used Omega and Frontera engine twice the price against it's FWD counterparts. (Vectra, 9-3 etc.)

yfo866 said:

I was thinking of any Landy that was shipped with a low powered engine or old Rover V8. An engine is an engine and doesn't care which way it is fitted. It only gets it's 'direction' from what is bolted to it (unless it's an A-Series Mini engine which has it's gearbox bolted beneath it) so once you have made up an adapter plate to go between the block and chosen bellhousing and mated the onput shaft to the crank, job's a good'un. This of course will generally involve throwing money at it unless you can machine materials yourself...
As for devaluing it, that's only a potential issue if you want to sell it. If it works better than the original lump i don't see it as being devalued. Not every conversion makes things worse!
The attraction of these PD engines is they are VERY tunable!!! WAY more so that a TD5.
I've just bought a 101 ambulance with it's original carb V8 fitted. I'll be looking at a PD conversion in the future for it. Or possibly a 4.6 with LPG or electric with possibly a small engine where the V8 was running a small generator for remote self charging. Whatever happens between the seats, i have a long list of jobs to go through before then.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't say the PD is way more tunable than the Td5. Just that there are more people tuning them and silly sized turbo's with huge LAG, while always an issue, are less so on a small fwd hatchback. Do that in a heavy 4x4 and it'd be a pig of a setup to actually drive.

So no, the PD motor probably isn't more tunable at all. It isn't made from pixie dust and doesn't do anything other engines don't. But it does seem like a lot of work and effort to end up with an oddball engine in your vehicle vs a much easier conversion that'd cost you less.

If power is really your goal, a 2.0 turbo diesel is hardly a good starting point, considering there are kits to easily fit a 6 cylinder BMW M57 or Mercedes OM606 or even something like a Chevy LS1 or or Jaguar supercharged V8.

If you already have the PD engine and are doing all the work, well ok. But I still bet you could build more power for similar money. Or the same power for way less.

As for transverse engines, not sure you got my point. It isn't about how the engine rotates.... it is all the bits that bolt to it. I'd expect you'd have to do a lot of R&D if nobody has done this before. As things might not fit or be room for them in the engine bay.

TD5 can quite easly push 250hp and 550nm, some have pushed 300hp and 600nm..

Easier to fit and far nicer motor altogether..

yfo866 said:

Has anyone put into a Land Rover a VAG PD130 or160 engine?
Ibiza FR PD130:
129 bhp @4000rpm
228 lb-ft @1900rpm


remap:
183bhp
286 lb-ft


Ibiza Cupra PD160:
158bhp @3750rpm
243 lb-ft @1900rpm

remap:
~190bhp
~300 lb-ft

I reckon they are the ultimate(unless you're going silly) 4 cylinder engine for a Land Rover.
Good power starting low down and good on fuel economy. Admittedly in a green oval badged brick you won't get the same as in a svelt Ibiza but still...

Click to expand...

Why not go the other way, and put the landy engine in the Cupra?

That way, you will look like a boy racer, but without the performance to kill yourself!

Henry_b said:

TD5 can quite easly push 250hp and 550nm, some have pushed 300hp and 600nm..

Easier to fit and far nicer motor altogether..

Click to expand...

Agreed. Another big plu for the Td5 has to be the soundtrack too. They genuinely sound good, not just good for a diesel. The VW PD motors most certainly are not musical.

Henry_b said:

TD5 can quite easly push 250hp and 550nm, some have pushed 300hp and 600nm..

Easier to fit and far nicer motor altogether..

Click to expand...

I agree it would be far easier but how much would 250 horses out of a TD5 cost you? I read on a link that it was about £950 for a set of head bolts!
My Cupra with the PD160 engine 220 horses with only a remap and front mounted intercooler instead of the standard side mount one.

Turboman said:

Why not go the other way, and put the landy engine in the Cupra?

That way, you will look like a boy racer, but without the performance to kill yourself!

Click to expand...

I like your thinking. Totally out of the box! BUT i spend most of my time at 50/60 mph going to and from work. As for not being able to kill myself, in my experience the most dangerous time when driving is trying to overtake granddad pootling along without a care in the world or anywhere to go holding you up when you DO have somewhere to go and have to resort to a kamikaze dash trying to overtake. In my banana rocket(it's bright yellow) i just pop it in third and flex my right foot and i'm past! Oh, and it looks totally standard. Just a bog standard looking yellow Ibiza.

yfo866 said:

I like your thinking. Totally out of the box! BUT i spend most of my time at 50/60 mph going to and from work. As for not being able to kill myself, in my experience the most dangerous time when driving is trying to overtake granddad pootling along without a care in the world or anywhere to go holding you up when you DO have somewhere to go and have to resort to a kamikaze dash trying to overtake. In my banana rocket(it's bright yellow) i just pop it in third and flex my right foot and i'm past! Oh, and it looks totally standard. Just a bog standard looking yellow Ibiza.

Click to expand...

Doubt if you would have got past me in my Massey with a trailed mower on the back.

Even with a Cupra engine!

300bhp/ton said:

Agreed. Another big plu for the Td5 has to be the soundtrack too. They genuinely sound good, not just good for a diesel. The VW PD motors most certainly are not musical.

Click to expand...

Hands up, i've never heard a TD5 on full chat, but i've heard my Cupra and it does sound good! I bought it with a straight through exhaust, no silencer. Guys at work don't think it's very loud at all. Personally i think it's too loud, especially at five to five in the morning so consequently i use the BMW when i'm on earlies and only use the Cupra when i'm on lates. Also at a steady 60 i can hear a low drone from it too. A bit like if you've got a wheel bearing starting to make itself known. So at some point i'll be putting a Cupra back box back on it.

Turboman said:

Doubt if you would have got past me in my Massey with a trailed mower on the back.

Even with a Cupra engine!

Click to expand...

Too true. And i bet if you checked your mirror and saw a bright yellow Ibiza behind you you'd chuckle and ignore it!
Changing the subject, do you find there are some drivers who refuse to overtake you? Back in a previous life i worked on a farm where we used to milk bulls. We had two properties which were about two miles by road apart. Often i'd wave people behind me to pass when clear and most would happily overtake often with a wave or toot, others would just stare at me.

yfo866 said:

I agree it would be far easier but how much would 250 horses out of a TD5 cost you? I read on a link that it was about £950 for a set of head bolts!
My Cupra with the PD160 engine 220 horses with only a remap and front mounted intercooler instead of the standard side mount one.

Click to expand...

How much is a pd130 conversion going run you? it isn't going to cost pennies..

A built TD5, hell even a mildy tuned TD5 works very well, easily the best diesel Lr has ever produced.

No real need for an excess of power in an old LR..

yfo866 said:

Too true. And i bet if you checked your mirror and saw a bright yellow Ibiza behind you you'd chuckle and ignore it!
Changing the subject, do you find there are some drivers who refuse to overtake you? Back in a previous life i worked on a farm where we used to milk bulls. We had two properties which were about two miles by road apart. Often i'd wave people behind me to pass when clear and most would happily overtake often with a wave or toot, others would just stare at me.

Click to expand...

Very few ever overtook me. I made a special effort, swerving out a bit if necessary!

In Cornwall, we do it dreckly, and are a bit suspicious of people in a hurry.

Guessing that would be an AI centre? I seem to remember you mentioning it before.
Being an ex bull breeder, I am not all that keen on AI, it impacts on sales.
But I imagine that must have been interesting work.