P38 Pain in the backside

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stevo88

New Member
Posts
465
Location
Covas/Tabua - Portugal
hi all, sorry to post another thing on the EAS...BUT... PLEASE HELP MEEEEEEEE, i'm so stuck on the reason why the EAS aint working, right, story so far,

Got a customers P38 in a few weeks ago with problems with the EAS, sourced it to the compressor, so put a brand new one on it, sweet, worked fine, now its back in again (and has been for nearly a week) as it just doesn't want to go up!!!!

I've had the valve block apart, renewed nearly every single o-ring in there, checked solenoids, seem ok,, the car will rise wen an airline is used direct onto the airlines for the springs, i've changed the diaphragm, checked all springs inside the valves, there working perfectly, but upon putting an airline onto the feed to the air tank, and then putting it back into the valve block it seems to be exhausting straight back out again???? (this was witht the compressor still attatched) and with the compressor un attatched it lets the air out thru the blue pipe that normally go's onto the compressor, yet Hawkeye says all valves open and shut as they should, and only comes out with vehicle has moved fault,

i've checked everywhere for leaks, got some new collets and o-rings for the pipes on order, but can anybody please help with any suggestions that could point me to anything i may have overlooked or missed,

Thanx in advance.

Steve
 
stevo88 said:
hi all, sorry to post another thing on the EAS...BUT... PLEASE HELP MEEEEEEEE, i'm so stuck on the reason why the EAS aint working, right, story so far,

Got a customers P38 in a few weeks ago with problems with the EAS, sourced it to the compressor, so put a brand new one on it, sweet, worked fine, now its back in again (and has been for nearly a week) as it just doesn't want to go up!!!!

I've had the valve block apart, renewed nearly every single o-ring in there, checked solenoids, seem ok,, the car will rise wen an airline is used direct onto the airlines for the springs, i've changed the diaphragm, checked all springs inside the valves, there working perfectly, but upon putting an airline onto the feed to the air tank, and then putting it back into the valve block it seems to be exhausting straight back out again???? (this was witht the compressor still attatched) and with the compressor un attatched it lets the air out thru the blue pipe that normally go's onto the compressor, yet Hawkeye says all valves open and shut as they should, and only comes out with vehicle has moved fault,

i've checked everywhere for leaks, got some new collets and o-rings for the pipes on order, but can anybody please help with any suggestions that could point me to anything i may have overlooked or missed,

Thanx in advance.

Steve
Click to expand...

Hi Steve,

Mine has exactly the same symptoms. It was sort of cured last time by pumping up the system and then putting in a new pump. That sort of sorted to the problem for two months but sadly the problem returned and the bugger will not go up. I tested the preesure of the pump with my finger today and that seems ok, the only other thing I can think of is the Valve Block. I have that out at the moment and changing all the o rings tomorrow. Im hoping that works for me but Im a little worried now because you have done the same but no joy. If this does not work I am going to try the driver and replace that.
 
stevo88 said:
hi all, sorry to post another thing on the EAS...BUT... PLEASE HELP MEEEEEEEE, i'm so stuck on the reason why the EAS aint working, right, story so far,

Got a customers P38 in a few weeks ago with problems with the EAS, sourced it to the compressor, so put a brand new one on it, sweet, worked fine, now its back in again (and has been for nearly a week) as it just doesn't want to go up!!!!

I've had the valve block apart, renewed nearly every single o-ring in there, checked solenoids, seem ok,, the car will rise wen an airline is used direct onto the airlines for the springs, i've changed the diaphragm, checked all springs inside the valves, there working perfectly, but upon putting an airline onto the feed to the air tank, and then putting it back into the valve block it seems to be exhausting straight back out again???? (this was witht the compressor still attatched) and with the compressor un attatched it lets the air out thru the blue pipe that normally go's onto the compressor, yet Hawkeye says all valves open and shut as they should, and only comes out with vehicle has moved fault,

i've checked everywhere for leaks, got some new collets and o-rings for the pipes on order, but can anybody please help with any suggestions that could point me to anything i may have overlooked or missed,

Thanx in advance.

Steve
Click to expand...

You either have a duff NRV or the diaphrgm valve is stuck open. Air should not come back from the tank through the blue pipe.
 
wammers said:
You either have a duff NRV or the diaphrgm valve is stuck open. Air should not come back from the tank through the blue pipe.
Click to expand...


aye i thought that, but i changed the diaphragm yesterday, the old one had like a white powdery substance round it, so i cleaned it all off with a tissue round the end of a screwdriver an put the new one in, now this may sound very stupid...and probably is, but which bit in the valve block are the three NRV's? is it the little valves with springs on them at the opposite end of the block to the diaphragm? as i've checked them bits, an put new o-rings on them anorl but it just won't friggin work!!!! if it wer mine it'd be burnt or on coils now but the owner has flat refused that conversion :( gonna check out some sites this mornin an see if i can find anythin more out about the driver, could that "fake" a stuck valve at all d'ya know?

Cheers

Steve
 
stevo88 said:
aye i thought that, but i changed the diaphragm yesterday, the old one had like a white powdery substance round it, so i cleaned it all off with a tissue round the end of a screwdriver an put the new one in, now this may sound very stupid...and probably is, but which bit in the valve block are the three NRV's? is it the little valves with springs on them at the opposite end of the block to the diaphragm? as i've checked them bits, an put new o-rings on them anorl but it just won't friggin work!!!! if it wer mine it'd be burnt or on coils now but the owner has flat refused that conversion :( gonna check out some sites this mornin an see if i can find anythin more out about the driver, could that "fake" a stuck valve at all d'ya know?

Cheers

Steve
Click to expand...

Look at the scematic diagram in RAVE. The diaphragm valve 13 is operated by the diaphragm solenoid valve 12 which applies air pressure to one side of diaphragm to open it and exhaust excess air pressure. There is usually a problem in this area if you get air being lost throught the exhaust port whilst the compressor is running. However you say air is being lost through the blue feed pipe from compressor. From the tank air has two possible passages to that blue pipe. One is through NRV2 then through inlet valve 7 then through outlet valve 8 then NRV3. This path is highly unlikely. The other more direct path is through a leaking NRV1. That is the most likely in my view. I would not say there is a fault with the diaphragm valves if air is NOT being lost through the exhaust port. But loss through the blue pipe is almost certainly the NRV1 leaking. Unless of course you have assembled something incorrectly. But i cannot think that will be the case. On the NRVs you will see a guide cone on their nose, make sure there is no step or flat worn into it that can cause it to foul and hold O ring off its seat.
 
wammers said:
Look at the scematic diagram in RAVE. The diaphragm valve 13 is operated by the diaphragm solenoid valve 12 which applies air pressure to one side of diaphragm to open it and exhaust excess air pressure. There is usually a problem in this area if you get air being lost throught the exhaust port whilst the compressor is running. However you say air is being lost through the blue feed pipe from compressor. From the tank air has two possible passages to that blue pipe. One is through NRV2 then through inlet valve 7 then through outlet valve 8 then NRV3. This path is highly unlikely. The other more direct path is through a leaking NRV1. That is the most likely in my view. I would not say there is a fault with the diaphragm valves if air is NOT being lost through the exhaust port. But loss through the blue pipe is almost certainly the NRV1 leaking. Unless of course you have assembled something incorrectly. But i cannot think that will be the case. On the NRVs you will see a guide cone on their nose, make sure there is no step or flat worn into it that can cause it to foul and hold O ring off its seat.
Click to expand...

i've looked too much at that diagram tbh, makes no sense to me (not very good at tech drawings) the air was exhausting through the little white filter on the side of the valve block when the compressor was still attathed, then took the compressor off an it came out the blue pipe, but ther is no flats or anything on the NRV's (presuming ther the 3 in a row next to each other with the springs as ther the only bits i can see with the cone on the top) the o-rings seem to be seated ok on them, i took the valve block apart one piece at a time (to avoid puttin summat back in the wrong place) an worked from front to back replacing o-rings an cleaning things an checkin springs still sprung an stuff, doesn't seem to be anything wrong with them or the valves?? this has GOT to be the most cunfuzzling thing i've ever come across in a car!!!!!! EVER!!!!!!! all just swings n roundabouts :( :doh::doh: cheers for the advice n help too btw, mucho appreciated, i just really hope i can sort it with no comebacks

Steve
 
If it has a leak it will come out through the silencer or the pump port, if unattached. If you look at the diagram (forget about the diaphgram part, it's a mess) you'll find that there's no way to block air coming out through the pump, once it leaves NRV1 or NRV3.
Are you sure you've set the NRVs the right way ? I was being extra carefull when I did my block but I still managed to set them up the wrong way :doh:
valve%20block%20018%20nrvs.jpg
 
mcapinha said:
Or solenoids 7 and 8, both leaking. Happened to me and took me the best part of 3 weeks to diagnose..
Click to expand...

Yes it is possible that is why i said stretch the springs slghtly on the inlet and exhaust valves. When the compressor stops the air line between NRV1 and the diaphragm is unloaded by the diaphragm solenoid valve. The air is then confined within the tank by the NRV1 and the inlet valve #7.
 
mcapinha said:
Or solenoids 7 and 8, both leaking. Happened to me and took me the best part of 3 weeks to diagnose..
Click to expand...

can you put that in lamens terms please? like if its on the top of the block or underneath, an looking from the left hand side wing, 5 on top 2 on the botton, say 1 is top left 5 is top right, which ones are then solenoid 7 and 8?? cheers, and sorry for the dumb f**k questions guys, but thank you very much for the responses so far

Steve
 
right, i've just had the car running, seemed to be building pressure, but there is a leak from the tank feed pipes collet n o-rings, so will need to wait for the new ones to get here, but i also had pressure switch low on hawkeye live data? and as you may well have already guessed, it didn't rise either :(
 
stevo88 said:
right, i've just had the car running, seemed to be building pressure, but there is a leak from the tank feed pipes collet n o-rings, so will need to wait for the new ones to get here, but i also had pressure switch low on hawkeye live data? and as you may well have already guessed, it didn't rise either :(
Click to expand...

Pressure switch low sounds normal to me in your current state.
 
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