P38 Flat Battery Lockout

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roger01

roger01

Member
Posts
42
Location
Wombwell, Barnsley, South Yorkshire
P38 2.5 DHSE Auto

Hi everybody it’s happened again, after the last flat battery fiasco and subsequent can’t sync the fobs because the alarm is still active when battery is re-charged I hooked up 60 watts of solar panels to stop it happening again, the P38 is a gracious old lady that now only goes out in the summer hence the solar panels, I have a newer L322 for the day to day stuff (caravan etc) I have just found that the waterproof cover on the solar plug and socket has been nibbled probably by the squirrels that have taken up residence in the trees behind the house, the result is a plug full of water and no charge hence flat battery. The last time (with the help of Mozz and others) tried all the generic EKA codes and finally the code that Land Rover emailed me but nothing worked it stayed firmly locked and fobs useless, after about three weeks of messing about for some inexplicable reason after 20+ disconnection and re-connection of the battery everything just started working, both fobs all as normal all this was in August 2018 and everything has been fine until now.

I have re-checked with Land Rover and they assure me the EKA they have given me is correct but when it’s entered nothing happens just as it was last time, what I have noticed is that when the unlock switch is activated the indicators flash when the lock switch is activated there’s no flash nothing, I don’t think I am getting the lock signal to the BCM and as such can’t enter the 4 x lock sequence that allows you to start the EKA input, the switches are fine fully tested and working, I’ve even tried with a second set of switches that I used to use to test PLC inputs, the interior lights (and alarm) operate on the ajar switch, the indicators flash when the open switch is operated but nothing happens when the close switch is operated, I have checked the wiring between the switches and the plug into the door out station and that checks out fine, any input would be greatly appreciated.
 
Door lock micro switch failed.
You need someone with a Nancom to turn off EKA and the immobiliser, then you can operate the car with just the key blade if needs be.
 
Hi, the door switches are tested and all fine, I have have even swapped the green/red (lock) and the blue red (unlock) wires over then instead of the indicators flashing when I unlock and nothing on lock it's as expected the other way round, when I lock the indicators flash and nothing when I unlock so both switches are working it just seems when the green/red lock input earths through the switch the BCM isn't seeing it.
 
roger01 said:
Hi, the door switches are tested and all fine, I have have even swapped the green/red (lock) and the blue red (unlock) wires over then instead of the indicators flashing when I unlock and nothing on lock it's as expected the other way round, when I lock the indicators flash and nothing when I unlock so both switches are working it just seems when the green/red lock input earths through the switch the BCM isn't seeing it.
Click to expand...
Time to get the DVM out then, or as i said, get the EKA turned off.
 
Know what your your saying and yes that may be the end solution but unsolved problems really stick up my nose there's only 4 control lines and 2 power lines from the Bcm to the out station ( + 2 from the window control/monitor which I assume govern current sensing for full open/close and anti trap) you probably know better than me but the out station controls maybe a dozen functions ( 3 door switches lock/unlock super/lock unlock window up down etc) if it was multiplexed I would expect a 2 wire twisted screened link from the BCM to the door out station but the 4 wire link suggests a binary count to the door out station if one of these 4 lines failed ( between the door out station and BCM) I would expect a problem on more than 1 function not just the lock switch so I can only assume at this time that the out station is not processing/passing on the info from the lock switch to BCM, I think my next move is to take out the door station and check the lock signal is actually getting through the plug and onto the PCB, all that being said who in South Yorkshire (Barnsley area) has a Nancom I could use.
 
roger01 said:
Know what your your saying and yes that may be the end solution but unsolved problems really stick up my nose there's only 4 control lines and 2 power lines from the Bcm to the out station ( + 2 from the window control/monitor which I assume govern current sensing for full open/close and anti trap) you probably know better than me but the out station controls maybe a dozen functions ( 3 door switches lock/unlock super/lock unlock window up down etc) if it was multiplexed I would expect a 2 wire twisted screened link from the BCM to the door out station but the 4 wire link suggests a binary count to the door out station if one of these 4 lines failed ( between the door out station and BCM) I would expect a problem on more than 1 function not just the lock switch so I can only assume at this time that the out station is not processing/passing on the info from the lock switch to BCM, I think my next move is to take out the door station and check the lock signal is actually getting through the plug and onto the PCB, all that being said who in South Yorkshire (Barnsley area) has a Nancom I could use.
Click to expand...
I have one but it's for thor model although it should do the BECM ok.
If you could get it down here I'd be happy to turn off the eka and immobiliser.
 
roger01 said:
Know what your your saying and yes that may be the end solution but unsolved problems really stick up my nose there's only 4 control lines and 2 power lines from the Bcm to the out station ( + 2 from the window control/monitor which I assume govern current sensing for full open/close and anti trap) you probably know better than me but the out station controls maybe a dozen functions ( 3 door switches lock/unlock super/lock unlock window up down etc) if it was multiplexed I would expect a 2 wire twisted screened link from the BCM to the door out station but the 4 wire link suggests a binary count to the door out station if one of these 4 lines failed ( between the door out station and BCM) I would expect a problem on more than 1 function not just the lock switch so I can only assume at this time that the out station is not processing/passing on the info from the lock switch to BCM, I think my next move is to take out the door station and check the lock signal is actually getting through the plug and onto the PCB, all that being said who in South Yorkshire (Barnsley area) has a Nancom I could use.
Click to expand...
Give Ridgeways in Rotherham a call, they may be able to help. No affiliation just have sorted me out several times
 
roger01 said:
P38 2.5 DHSE Auto

Hi everybody it’s happened again, after the last flat battery fiasco and subsequent can’t sync the fobs because the alarm is still active when battery is re-charged I hooked up 60 watts of solar panels to stop it happening again, the P38 is a gracious old lady that now only goes out in the summer hence the solar panels, I have a newer L322 for the day to day stuff (caravan etc) I have just found that the waterproof cover on the solar plug and socket has been nibbled probably by the squirrels that have taken up residence in the trees behind the house, the result is a plug full of water and no charge hence flat battery. The last time (with the help of Mozz and others) tried all the generic EKA codes and finally the code that Land Rover emailed me but nothing worked it stayed firmly locked and fobs useless, after about three weeks of messing about for some inexplicable reason after 20+ disconnection and re-connection of the battery everything just started working, both fobs all as normal all this was in August 2018 and everything has been fine until now.

I have re-checked with Land Rover and they assure me the EKA they have given me is correct but when it’s entered nothing happens just as it was last time, what I have noticed is that when the unlock switch is activated the indicators flash when the lock switch is activated there’s no flash nothing, I don’t think I am getting the lock signal to the BCM and as such can’t enter the 4 x lock sequence that allows you to start the EKA input, the switches are fine fully tested and working, I’ve even tried with a second set of switches that I used to use to test PLC inputs, the interior lights (and alarm) operate on the ajar switch, the indicators flash when the open switch is operated but nothing happens when the close switch is operated, I have checked the wiring between the switches and the plug into the door out station and that checks out fine, any input would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
The EKA code entering really does have to be very precise (as you already know, no doubt). I found that by going really slowly at it and not trying to set a world EKA entry speed record I got better results when my door contacts were dodgy..
The side-repeaters flashing (a BeCM option) during EKA digit entry is the tell-tale that the key turns "to & fro" are being seen by the BeCM as that is the acknowledgement as you say.
Even when you have entered an EKA ok the key fob may not work to remotely open/close the car because the rolling code is so far out of synch. I found that unless I cleared the RF memory with a Nanocom I could only ever get one of my 2 keys at a time to work. Clear the RF memory and both would work. Nanocom wasthe answer. I allegedly have the re-sync coil on my MY2000 vehicle but it never re-synced for me at all and would demand I press a button, even if the key was in the ignition.
 
Yes know what you mean about the sync, mines a 2001 (been together for 10+ years or so) and what I found in the past that after battery replacement (key or car) you place the key in the ignition and it flashes twice, don't press any buttons take it out and put the second key in and that flashes twice both are then ok to use, if you press any button on the first key before you sync the second the first works fine but the second key will not sync, discovered this quite by chance after a couple of years of having only one working fob at any one time.
 
Hi back again, as mentioned earlier operating the unlock switch and the indicators flashed, operate the lock switch and nothing, swapped the wires over on the door switches, and as expected the actions are reversed operate the unlock nothing operate the lock switch (which is now connected to the unlock wire/input) and indicators flash, as a further test swap the wires back do the same but leave the key in the ignition, unlock indicators flash and (beep beep) “key in ignition” message on the dash, turn to lock no indicators and no message on the dash so the theory of the lock signal not getting to the BECM would seem correct hence can’t input the EKA code to turn the alarm off and the deadlocks on the other three doors, the dead locks activated when I first tried to enter the code a couple of days ago, (I disabled the deadlock on the drivers door the last time I had this problem), so remove the out station and check it over looks fine checked the wiring right through to the pins on the PCB all ok so decided to now check the wiring/connections right back into the BECM.

Before I did this I decided to recreate the conditions that seemed to make the car self sync when I had this problem in 2018, battery out of the fob 25/30 mins while I had a coffee, replace fob battery disconnect car battery, key in ignition turn on and light switch on for a few mins (to ensure full discharge of all systems) all switches off (but leave the key in) and reconnect the car battery, couple of beeps and as expected key lockout message, left it like that while I removed the foot well covers etc to check all the plugs/connectors back the BECM all ok no corrosion and dry as a bone, quick snack and it’s a hour since I reconnected the battery, walk over to the car pull out the key press the buttons and everything works off the fob, this is now the second time the car has effectively re-synced it’s self while alarmed and imobilised, I can only assume that prior to my ownership someone did some serious delving/mods in the BECM, a further pointer to this is that all the diagrams show the green/red as the lock switch, blue/red as the open and purple/white as the door ajar switch all of which carry out their function when connected to the common black, but on this car the ajar is as it should be but connect the blue/red to black and the car locks, green/red to black and it unlocks, if anyone has any thoughts I would love to hear them.
 
roger01 said:
Hi back again, as mentioned earlier operating the unlock switch and the indicators flashed, operate the lock switch and nothing, swapped the wires over on the door switches, and as expected the actions are reversed operate the unlock nothing operate the lock switch (which is now connected to the unlock wire/input) and indicators flash, as a further test swap the wires back do the same but leave the key in the ignition, unlock indicators flash and (beep beep) “key in ignition” message on the dash, turn to lock no indicators and no message on the dash so the theory of the lock signal not getting to the BECM would seem correct hence can’t input the EKA code to turn the alarm off and the deadlocks on the other three doors, the dead locks activated when I first tried to enter the code a couple of days ago, (I disabled the deadlock on the drivers door the last time I had this problem), so remove the out station and check it over looks fine checked the wiring right through to the pins on the PCB all ok so decided to now check the wiring/connections right back into the BECM.

Before I did this I decided to recreate the conditions that seemed to make the car self sync when I had this problem in 2018, battery out of the fob 25/30 mins while I had a coffee, replace fob battery disconnect car battery, key in ignition turn on and light switch on for a few mins (to ensure full discharge of all systems) all switches off (but leave the key in) and reconnect the car battery, couple of beeps and as expected key lockout message, left it like that while I removed the foot well covers etc to check all the plugs/connectors back the BECM all ok no corrosion and dry as a bone, quick snack and it’s a hour since I reconnected the battery, walk over to the car pull out the key press the buttons and everything works off the fob, this is now the second time the car has effectively re-synced it’s self while alarmed and imobilised, I can only assume that prior to my ownership someone did some serious delving/mods in the BECM, a further pointer to this is that all the diagrams show the green/red as the lock switch, blue/red as the open and purple/white as the door ajar switch all of which carry out their function when connected to the common black, but on this car the ajar is as it should be but connect the blue/red to black and the car locks, green/red to black and it unlocks, if anyone has any thoughts I would love to hear them.
Click to expand...

@martyuk is the electrical genius.

I don't know if the colours are consistent across years.

My feeling is a break in the loom near the actuator is most likely. Any sign of it fouling the window regulator anywhere?

Seem to recall Datatek saying DVM were sensitive it could get a reading with a single strand of wire intact but put a test bulb load across it and the break will show.
 
Grrrrrr said:
@martyuk is the electrical genius.

I don't know if the colours are consistent across years.

My feeling is a break in the loom near the actuator is most likely. Any sign of it fouling the window regulator anywhere?

Seem to recall Datatek saying DVM were sensitive it could get a reading with a single strand of wire intact but put a test bulb load across it and the break will show.
Click to expand...
Wires break where they flex between the door and the A post. A test lamp is an essential trouble shooting aid.
 
Thanks for the input guys, yes I checked the loom from door out station to the plug behind the front door post in the drivers foot well and then on from the corresponding socket to the BECM using a 10w bulb as a series load and everything was fine, did all this when I suspected broken wire or bad connection was the reason the lock signal/input was not registering in the BECM but I could monitor the signal on the wire going into the BECM, while the alarm was still active the BECM just seemed to ignore the lock signal hence I couldn't set it up to accept the EKA code input. Now the car has done it's weird self sync (again) and I disarmed the alarm/immobiliser using the unlock button on the fob everything is happy, turn key to unlock indicators flash and it unlocks, turn to lock indicators flash and it locks same from the buttons, so why the system ignored the lock signal/input when the alarm was activated after the flat battery incident but seems quite happy to act on the signal/input now I have no idea, the car is a 2001 2.5 DHSE, several people have said that LR stopped producing the DHSE in 1999 but this most certainly DHSE spec Harmon Kardon electric heated, powered and memory everything but it's production must have been in the last run of P38's so your point about possible cable colour changes could well be the case, LR do tend to be a law unto themselves.
 
roger01 said:
Thanks for the input guys, yes I checked the loom from door out station to the plug behind the front door post in the drivers foot well and then on from the corresponding socket to the BECM using a 10w bulb as a series load and everything was fine, did all this when I suspected broken wire or bad connection was the reason the lock signal/input was not registering in the BECM but I could monitor the signal on the wire going into the BECM, while the alarm was still active the BECM just seemed to ignore the lock signal hence I couldn't set it up to accept the EKA code input. Now the car has done it's weird self sync (again) and I disarmed the alarm/immobiliser using the unlock button on the fob everything is happy, turn key to unlock indicators flash and it unlocks, turn to lock indicators flash and it locks same from the buttons, so why the system ignored the lock signal/input when the alarm was activated after the flat battery incident but seems quite happy to act on the signal/input now I have no idea, the car is a 2001 2.5 DHSE, several people have said that LR stopped producing the DHSE in 1999 but this most certainly DHSE spec Harmon Kardon electric heated, powered and memory everything but it's production must have been in the last run of P38's so your point about possible cable colour changes could well be the case, LR do tend to be a law unto themselves.
Click to expand...
I have a late 2000 (November)DHSE.
When the battery goes flat, the voltage decays slowly, it's possible that the ECU in the BECM just got confused. It's also possible that there is damp inside the BECM.
 
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