P38 2.5DSE possible timing issue. Lack of power.

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kretslopp

Member
Posts
34
Location
Sweden
Hello gents.

I have a 1999 P38 diesel with 380.000km.
I’ve been venting my previous issues on rangerovers.net but I’ve come to realize there are far more diesel knowledge on this site so now I’ve registered here to continue my crusade.

The car was running fine all things considered. Non chipped. Engine has never been opened as far as service history can tell.

The FIP however had developed a leak during the winter which caused it to start poorly. Had to crank the starter motor for quite a while. But it ran fine otherwise.

In February this year I finally got around to adress the leak.
I removed the pump and located the leak to the rear of the pump between the housing and the rear flange where the delivery valves sits.

Found a description on a dudes website on a similar pump how to replace that O-ring without removing the flange completely.

That worked fine and I put the pump back and started to set the static timing. I did this a year or so back when I swapped the pump earlier.
Though I must confess this time I had some difficulty remembering how to obtain the correct timing. Read the rave manual to refresh my memory and then set the static to 0,9mm with last pump movement towards the engine.
Locked it in place and test started it. Fired right away without any leaks.
Assembled the rest and happy as I was I drove it home the same night.
It starts like a dream now. Changed the glow plugs at the same time to the brand named welleman from Island 4x4.

But soon I noticed the car was behaving slugggishly when cold. It’s like it has problems to rev up while drive is engaged.
While trying to drive away from idle with drive engaged it is painfully, embarrassingly and above all dangerously slow to gain speed.

When the turbo kicks in it’s better. This symptom is gone when the vehicle is nice and hot. Which led me to suspect the cold and the ATF to be harder to pump around or something. This symptom remained through spring and now it’s june and warmer. So yeah. Probably not transmission related.

Another example:
Cruise control engaged in 80km/h.
Tachometer reads ca 1800RPM when in lock up in 4th. Boost at 0.3bar
The slightest incline leads to losing speed and eventually the transmission kicks down into 2nd gear I believe to get back to the set speed.

A third example:
The other day I was almost late for work and floored it on the free way. I could not go faster than 140km/h and when reaching a hill it started to lose speed. Then I got fed up with this lack of power.

And here I am now writing this absurdly long post.

One thing I was thinking about is how important is the static timing when the pump can modulate the timing itself within reasonable limits? If static timing is a little bit retarded for example?

I have no diagnostics so I cannot check modulation.

Is it possible a timing chain might be off a tooth?

Turbo boost looks fine. It peaks at 1.3bar and boost responds quite all right when revving.

Any ideas are welcome.
Thank you in advance.
 
First of all check that the fuel lift pump is working. Then check the MAP pipe from under manifold is free from cracks and holds pressure. Check it's connection to the manifold and MAP sensor is clear. Check that the EGR valve is not sticking open. If it loses power on hills and has to change down odds are lift pump is failing or has failed. Look in Tech archive for instructions on how to check this.
 
I’d be very surprised if you don’t get the solution here. Listen to this guy ^^^ he is the best there is IMO for P38 M51 anywhere.

You do realise similar pumps are not compatible (omega/6series). Needs a P38 one.

Love a good crusade :)
Good luck
 
First of all check that the fuel lift pump is working. Then check the MAP pipe from under manifold is free from cracks and holds pressure. Check it's connection to the manifold and MAP sensor is clear. Check that the EGR valve is not sticking open. If it loses power on hills and has to change down odds are lift pump is failing or has failed. Look in Tech archive for instructions on how to check this.

Sorry forgot to mention some things.
Lift pump was tested according to the test in technical archive in February when the FIP was out.

No EGR valve.

Boost gauge is connected to a T-piece just below the MAP sensor.
I plan on doing some maintenance on Thursday so will double check lift pump and the map sensor hose.
 
Sorry forgot to mention some things.
Lift pump was tested according to the test in technical archive in February when the FIP was out.

No EGR valve.

Boost gauge is connected to a T-piece just below the MAP sensor.
I plan on doing some maintenance on Thursday so will double check lift pump and the map sensor hose.

Ok Even if timing is slightly out it should be corrected by ECU unless it's way out. If it was way to retarded starting hot would be a problem and would give high modulation. If it's starting hot ok, it maybe a bit too advanced but that again will be corrected by ECU but would give low modulation.
 
Ok Even if timing is slightly out it should be corrected by ECU unless it's way out. If it was way to retarded starting hot would be a problem and would give high modulation. If it's starting hot ok, it maybe a bit too advanced but that again will be corrected by ECU but would give low modulation.

I have a hot start fix.
It starts ok when hot.
 
I’d be very surprised if you don’t get the solution here. Listen to this guy ^^^ he is the best there is IMO for P38 M51 anywhere.

You do realise similar pumps are not compatible (omega/6series). Needs a P38 one.

Love a good crusade :)
Good luck

My current FIP comes from an Omega and I’ve been driving with that for two and a half years. About 20.000km.

Sooo.... I’m fairly certain that info of yours is a tiny bit incorrect.
 
My current FIP comes from an Omega and I’ve been driving with that for two and a half years. About 20.000km.

Sooo.... I’m fairly certain that info of yours is a tiny bit incorrect.

As long as injection pump is same part number as your old pump it will work. Any other number and it will not.
 
I went to my computer and checked some photos from when I swapped the pump.
They both ended with 994. So I guess I was lucky then.

About the engine itself. Is it possible to confirm wether my engine has been swapped?
My vin number is secret .
 
Last edited:
vin will be on vehicle even if engine is swapped - delete that information I would not publicise that online ;) PM a guru maybe.
It shouldn’t matter much unless it’s cobbled together from different vehicles.
Hotstart can mask issues like tired FIP, but only delays inevitable. Can be useful for older models that don’t have pump on ignition.

If you drive it , it must work more or less.
Wammers will see you okay either way :)
 
First of all check that the fuel lift pump is working. Then check the MAP pipe from under manifold is free from cracks and holds pressure. Check it's connection to the manifold and MAP sensor is clear. Check that the EGR valve is not sticking open. If it loses power on hills and has to change down odds are lift pump is failing or has failed. Look in Tech archive for instructions on how to check this.
...
 
I went to my computer and checked some photos from when I swapped the pump.
They both ended with 994. So I guess I was lucky then.

About the engine itself. Is it possible to confirm wether my engine has been swapped?
My vin number is secret .

Yep. Only 994 on P38 but other numbers on some years in other makes.

Might not be all your engine that has been swapped but part of it certainly has. It should have the engine number stamped on it somewhere and it will be on the V5C in England so guessing there is a similar registration document in Sweden?

MAP sensor is a good call if the pipe is good. Guessing MAF is cut out or plug hanging loose somewhere?

When warm, what's the tick-over rpm? Should be rock-steady 750 rpm.
 
Yep. Only 994 on P38 but other numbers on some years in other makes.

Might not be all your engine that has been swapped but part of it certainly has. It should have the engine number stamped on it somewhere and it will be on the V5C in England so guessing there is a similar registration document in Sweden?

I don’t know. The thing is with this car is it was exported from Belgium to Norway in 2004. And exported by me from Norway to Sweden when me and my family moved back to Sweden recently. So the info must come from Belgium I guess.

MAP sensor is a good call if the pipe is good. Guessing MAF is cut out or plug hanging loose somewhere?

You know what? There is a plug hanging loose around that area. A round one with maybe four pins. I’ve been puzzled about that ever since I started tinkering with this car.

When warm, what's the tick-over rpm? Should be rock-steady 750 rpm.

As a non native English speaker I must confess this term tick-over is a mystery to me what it actually means.
From the context I know what you mean though. What’s the rpm at idle? It is very solid at 750-ish.
 
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