P38 2.5 Inj Pump modulation issue.

markav8r said:

With the chain guides so tight to the crank sprocket the chain couldn't have "slipped off" there. I think the only possibility that the chain could have been slack would have been when the injection pump was first changed if the FIP sprocket "dropped". It went from a superb running engine with a leaky FIP to an absolute pig that stopped every couple of miles. I've now changed out the chains and guides myself but without removing the head, so I didn't get inspecting the piston crowns. The additional defect now appears to be the collapsed torsional damper. - I just started the engine to move the car, (only 40 seconds running ) and found the steering jerky. I felt the crank pulley and its very hot! So yet another part now to change. I have ordered a new pulley which is also fitted to the BMW 325 from 1993 (the BMW equivalent is £70 v hundreds for the Landrover part number).

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You've had the crank bolt undone? That needs some serious torque on it. Sure Wammers said it drives the oil pump but only if done up tight enough.

Crank pulley has rubber damper in it and the rubber sometimes breaks up. Could be that? It should unbolt without touching the crank bolt.

Grrrrrr said:

You've had the crank bolt undone? That needs some serious torque on it. Sure Wammers said it drives the oil pump but only if done up tight enough.

Crank pulley has rubber damper in it and the rubber sometimes breaks up. Could be that? It should unbolt without touching the crank bolt.

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As said above do not undo the bolt holding the crank pulley unless you have the means to torque it up, it needs to be incredibly tight and the oil pump is just driven by friction.
The crank damper can be changed without undoing the bolt.

RangeRoller dt said:

I think they dropped the sprocket a bit when they originally changed the pump. How’d it jump two cogs. Or it was a link out all the way round from new.

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Bright links are only a guide. As long as the mark on the crank sprocket and the 6 mark on the pump sprocket are twelve links apart with engine locked at TDC number one firing all is well. A sprocket holder MUST be used when pump is changed it would be stupid not to. Why do people to do things they don't know how to do. There seem to be a lot of shit mechanics about these days.

wammers said:

Bright links are only a guide. As long as the mark on the crank sprocket and the 6 mark on the pump sprocket are twelve links apart with engine locked at TDC number one firing all is well. A sprocket holder MUST be used when pump is changed it would be stupid not to. Why do people to do things they don't know how to do. There seem to be a lot of shit mechanics about these days.

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Welcome back, Mr. T. All well in the North? You must be cooking up there. I've heard the thermometer has nudged past 20 degrees up there.

Grrrrrr said:

Welcome back, Mr. T. All well in the North? You must be cooking up there. I've heard the thermometer has nudged past 20 degrees up there.

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Have been refurbing patio table seat. Day off yesterday too hot to work out there. 31c expected later today. My personal record is 46c in Spain a few years ago. That were a bit warm.

wammers said:

Have been refurbing patio table seat. Day off yesterday too hot to work out there. 31c expected later today. My personal record is 46c in Spain a few years ago. That were a bit warm.

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Quite cool then, 40C here yesterday and heading that way again today Go steady, this heat supposedly kills us oldies saving the government a fortune in pensions etc

Datatek said:

Quite cool then, 40C here yesterday and heading that way again today Go steady, this heat supposedly kills us oldies saving the government a fortune in pensions etc

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Older people don't drink enough, apparently. I'd amend that myself. From my observations they don't drink enough water. Drinking wine they're well ahead of the curve.

Grrrrrr said:

Older people don't drink enough, apparently. I'd amend that myself. From my observations they don't drink enough water. Drinking wine they're well ahead of the curve.

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I like to drink lots of dry ginger or lemonade. But it makes me slur my speech and feel unsteady on my legs. Or would that be the JD i put in it?

RangeRoller dt said:

I think they dropped the sprocket a bit when they originally changed the pump. How’d it jump two cogs. Or it was a link out all the way round from new.

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Perhaps they turned the engine backwards while changing the fip.

tomcat59alan said:

Perhaps they turned the engine backwards while changing the fip.

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Most likely, bit difficult to jump the pump sprocket. More likely to jump crank sprocket.

Grrrrrr said:

Welcome back, Mr. T. All well in the North? You must be cooking up there. I've heard the thermometer has nudged past 20 degrees up there.

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If your talking to me mate, I can cope with the heat,as for cooking the kitchen is on the tip, some building work done and the plasterer should be here tomorrowLuckily the caravan on the drive is being put to good use. New kitchen fitting is scheduled for early August.

tomcat59alan said:

If your talking to me mate, I can cope with the heat,as for cooking the kitchen is on the tip, some building work done and the plasterer should be here tomorrowLuckily the caravan on the drive is being put to good use. New kitchen fitting is scheduled for early August.

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Could be. Mr T works both ways!

Might as well be here at the moment. Too hot in Spain. Just about bearable here, with a beer.

Grrrrrr said:

Could be. Mr T works both ways!

Might as well be here at the moment. Too hot in Spain. Just about bearable here, with a beer.

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Or some dry ginger like Tony posted, mines with whisky.

tomcat59alan said:

Perhaps they turned the engine backwards while changing the fip.

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They were just a link out on FIP sprocket, and it ran crap. All sorted now and engine much happier, back to enjoyable performance- It will be even happier when it gets a new vibration damper pulley on main crank, as the rubber is disintegrating.
.

markav8r said:

They were just a link out on FIP sprocket, and it ran crap. All sorted now and engine much happier, back to enjoyable performance- It will be even happier when it gets a new vibration damper pulley on main crank, as the rubber is disintegrating.
.

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Then i take it that in your photo the engine was not locked at TDC number one firing. If the bright link on the crank sprocket was lined up with it's mark it should be visible at TDC. It isn't. The pump can be adjusted reasonably in that state, what caused the bad running was the cam timing being out.

wammers said:

Then i take it that in your photo the engine was not locked at TDC number one firing. If the bright link on the crank sprocket was lined up with it's mark it should be visible at TDC. It isn't. The pump can be adjusted reasonably in that state, what caused the bad running was the cam timing being out.

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The Cam was locked using the tool. See photos attached, both old chains and new. [GALLERY=][/GALLERY]
Originally when the garage fitted the pump and it ran like a dog, they said that they had just put the pump on midway and that it self regulates. I wasn’t happy with that so I borrowed the pin / dial gage holder for the pump from a bmw garage. Then they said that they had timed it, but using a screwdriver to locate the flywheel locking hole. Again I wasn’t happy, the car still wasn’t right, so I bought the camshaft locking set and locator pin for the flywheel. The car still didn’t run right. It was so bad I bought another P38 as mine was virtually unusable, it stopped regularly and had no power. The garage had my original injection pump overhauled (at my cost) and they refitted it in place of the factory exchange unit. It still ran bad. They (at my cost) changed no 4 injector, crank position sensor, temperature sensors and tried retiming a few times. Through this forum I learned that the modulation reading via nanocom should be mid range, I was getting around 4%! I mentioned this to the garage. Finally they insisted I witnessed them timing it. When I arrived, the factory exchange injector pump was back on, the rocker cover was off, and I could see the bolt holding the cam sprocket. It appeared to be timing as per RAVE. I drove it and all appeared well. I suspect that they loosened the cam sprocket and adjusted it when the locking pin was correctly placed. This meant that the cam and pump were matched, and only 12 links fit anyway between the no6 on the pump socket and the dot on the crankshaft sprocket. I drove the car 60miles well pleased as it was modulating 40%to 60%. When I arrived in traffic after 60 miles it started running hot and the battery was being discharged (producing various warnings). The power steering was intermittent. A horrible intermittent rattle was coming from the front. It was returned on a recovery truck to my own garage where it lay the past 8 months till I got the time to look at it myself. I changed the water pump, power steering pump etc.. (all now clearly unnecessary). It had an overhauled alternator as I my other P38 alternator had failed, so I swapped it out. I had planned to do the chains anyway. You’ve seen the stripped photos, I then replaced the chains and re-timed the pump. Timing the pump was awkward as the proper flywheel locking pin has some play (allowing the flywheel to move over .05mm as indicated on the gage fitted to the pump) probably due to the garage having used a screwdriver (and deforming the hole). It ran, but an intermittent rattle and glitchy power steering were still present. I asked the garage if they ever heard of the crank pulley damper failing... never was the reply. Reading this forum I discover that they do fail. I then removed the crankshaft damper pulley which has clearly failed. I’m now waiting for one to arrive next week.
So basically if the cam and pump are correct when the flywheel has the locking pin in (so the crank is also correct) It doesn’t matter that the bright links were out. The woodruff key slot on the the inj pump sprocket will line up as the crankshaft is correctly locked. Pity it took over 2 years for the garage to set them correctly (hence the modulation returning to the correct range).

It’s great to have the forum.[/QUOTE]

Update. I got a new Crankshaft Vibration Damper pulley for a BMW 325,525,725, also suitable for the Opel Omega 2.5, so should be the same as the P38 2.5. The part number is DP0025, a nd it cost £75+v as opposed to the hundreds for the P38 listed item. I also had a tool made to hold the flange to allow me to torque the new crankshaft bolt as I had removed the original to get the front cover off for the timing chain replacement. All back operational now. Tomorrow will tell...

markav8r said:

The Cam was locked using the tool. See photos attached, both old chains and new.
Originally when the garage fitted the pump and it ran like a dog... /*SNIP!*/

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F*ck me. Another tale of woe and of a garage without a sodding clue just throwing the owners money at it.

Trading Standards worth a try? Didn't Which? used to do a good garage scheme? Or was that the AA? I'd report them.

Wammers is the diesel demigod. Nailed it again.