P38 2.5 DSE Non starter. 1999.. Plus No Reverse..

Grrrrrr said:

P38 diesel with HP24 gearbox? @ovalandrover has the same setup so can advise.

Should be rock solid 750rpm at tickover. Pump top can be a total bar-steward. That's for certain.

Don't know about the auto but the manual can sit on any autobahn at 90mph and go over a hundred when pushed. Obviously not on British roads. That would be illegal.

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The idle speed can be adjusted in the EDC, both mine seem to idle at close to 800, not something to play with in the OP's case though.

Next instalment. Serviced, but still running “slow.”
As per earlier posts, a previous owner has installed an after market electric fuel pump next to the filter. But looks a cheap standard affair.

Pulled flow pipe off of filter (on outlet side).
Only got shade over 100ml in 10 sec no where near the 180ml in @wammers guide. Can check again at filter inlet side, but would filter (brand new) slow down flow that much?

Guessing pump just isn’t man enough for job. Have spent several hours reading site, and now that long term fix is to remove tank and for a proper lift pump, and refit relay etc to remove aftermarket job. (And do brake pipes while I’m there).

But need car for next few weeks, so won’t have time. Is fitting a decent, adjustable electric pump in place of the cheap current one an option. At least then I can increase the pressure / flow. Or is this going to have a knock on effect with the FIP? Don’t want to knacker that!!

Cheers.

BrenK said:

Next instalment. Serviced, but still running “slow.”
As per earlier posts, a previous owner has installed an after market electric fuel pump next to the filter. But looks a cheap standard affair.

Pulled flow pipe off of filter (on outlet side).
Only got shade over 100ml in 10 sec no where near the 180ml in @wammers guide. Can check again at filter inlet side, but would filter (brand new) slow down flow that much?

Guessing pump just isn’t man enough for job. Have spent several hours reading site, and now that long term fix is to remove tank and for a proper lift pump, and refit relay etc to remove aftermarket job. (And do brake pipes while I’m there).

But need car for next few weeks, so won’t have time. Is fitting a decent, adjustable electric pump in place of the cheap current one an option. At least then I can increase the pressure / flow. Or is this going to have a knock on effect with the FIP? Don’t want to knacker that!!

Cheers.

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I'd go back to stock. Too little flow will definitely have issues. I'm guessing too much might as well. I'm not sure but my reasoning is that assuming the FIP magnifies the pressure that would mean excess pressure at the injector so it would stay open longer and spray more fuel in. You'd get more power but if too much goes in then there might be excess fuel in some areas causing uneven heating across the head that over time could cause the head to crack. Wammers is the man to ask though: he's the diesel guru. FFS don't mention MAF.

Grrrrrr said:

I'd go back to stock. Too little flow will definitely have issues. I'm guessing too much might as well. I'm not sure but my reasoning is that assuming the FIP magnifies the pressure that would mean excess pressure at the injector so it would stay open longer and spray more fuel in. You'd get more power but if too much goes in then there might be excess fuel in some areas causing uneven heating across the head that over time could cause the head to crack. Wammers is the man to ask though: he's the diesel guru. FFS don't mention MAF.

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I will go back to tank pump as soon as I have time to do it. Just wandered if as a temporary measure whilst I use car for next few weeks, that a better aftermarket pump would at least give it some improvement.

My in tank pump is either non existent or not working at all. I get 0mls (zero) of fuel at Filter but 100 is bad most get 180 no probs.
Go new VDO pump In tank and get rid of the aftermarket pump, it’s a bad patch for a minor problem(s) that will gum up everything.
Stock seems best it doesn’t confuse the computers and is more than efficient enough if working correctly for engines chipped/tuned that require extra fuelling.

cheap pumps will last only few months, @Dopey and other members will testify to that

There may be degraded clips/pipes/rubbers on tank and filler neck, brakes lines as you say - they could be fine, mine are somehow new even though pump is duff
the main seal around top usually does not need renewing which people tend to panic when kit has no new one.

BrenK said:

I will go back to tank pump as soon as I have time to do it. Just wandered if as a temporary measure whilst I use car for next few weeks, that a better aftermarket pump would at least give it some improvement.

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Personally I'd chuck as little money as possible at it! Tank is a bit of a faff so best do it once so I'd go for a VDO unit. Can you put up with reduced power a little longer?!

Grrrrrr said:

Personally I'd chuck as little money as possible at it! Tank is a bit of a faff so best do it once so I'd go for a VDO unit. Can you put up with reduced power a little longer?!

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As long as I'm not causing damage in the meantime, then yes i can live with it. Just have to remember what I'm driving (not my work van or motorbike, or even wifes people carrier, haha) and wait more patiently at junctions before pulling out and just never ever try and overtake in it,
I'll get a pucker VDO from same place you did (see I have been reading other threads and searching for answers, )
And look forward to the joys of getting the tank off. Did you have problems with the filler pipe and connections in the end?
Cheers.

BrenK said:

As long as I'm not causing damage in the meantime, then yes i can live with it. Just have to remember what I'm driving (not my work van or motorbike, or even wifes people carrier, haha) and wait more patiently at junctions before pulling out and just never ever try and overtake in it,
I'll get a pucker VDO from same place you did (see I have been reading other threads and searching for answers, )
And look forward to the joys of getting the tank off. Did you have problems with the filler pipe and connections in the end?
Cheers.

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Personally I figured it was old and just cut it. Ordered a new rubber join bit and sorted it when reinstalling. You don't need to do everything RAVE says. Trying to remember what I did. Think I removed part of the wheel arch liner and had enough room to get a knife up there. I do remember the hardest part of the job was getting all the fuel out. Wait until the tank is 'empty'!

It will be heavy even with few litres in it and tends to come out at an angle.
@Jerseyp38 has few threads on not revving, no power did his pump and don’t see him now so think it’s good.
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/95-dt-diesel-manual-in-tank-pump-replacement.341301/
Can’t get someone to fix his fuel system so seems to be doing it himself, for what he was quoted for changing injectors ; I don’t blame him he’s good guy ask him

I can overtake and blow cars away with no pump, I have to be careful not to let it drop revs too sharp at stop after long run or it will cut out.
Last time it spluttered and died at motorway lights, and a car right up my a**e cut out too, think his engine guzzled whatever came out my exhaust and choked?

BrenK said:

As long as I'm not causing damage in the meantime, then yes i can live with it. Just have to remember what I'm driving (not my work van or motorbike, or even wifes people carrier, haha) and wait more patiently at junctions before pulling out and just never ever try and overtake in it,
I'll get a pucker VDO from same place you did (see I have been reading other threads and searching for answers, )
And look forward to the joys of getting the tank off. Did you have problems with the filler pipe and connections in the end?
Cheers.

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Get a new piece of hose that connects the filler pipe to the tank, it was badly perished on mine so really needed doing. You have the remove the complete wheel arch liner which is easy, getting the filler pipe off is not so easy.

RangeRoller dt said:

I can overtake and blow cars away with no pump, I have to be careful not to let it drop revs too sharp at stop after long run or it will cut out.
Last time it spluttered and died at motorway lights, and a car right up my a**e cut out too, think his engine guzzled whatever came out my exhaust and choked?

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This is where I get lost? The only way I learn is to understand what things do, why and how. So forgive me if my questions seem untoward. I am not disregarding advice or being awkward etc, just trying to learn, and have learnt a lot all ready from here.

How does your car perform so well with no pump? And if my pump is failing or no good why does it not perform?

I’ve ordered a pump any way as want to put everything back to standard as it helps with diagnosis etc if everything is as it should be.
What does the lift pump actually do differently to an after market simple 12v pump?

As I say, I’m only trying to learn and the only way I do that is understanding what things are supposed to do in the first place. @wammers I’m guessing you know the ins and outs of this, so any input you have will be welcome, as well

Cheers guys.

BrenK said:

This is where I get lost? The only way I learn is to understand what things do, why and how. So forgive me if my questions seem untoward. I am not disregarding advice or being awkward etc, just trying to learn, and have learnt a lot all ready from here.

How does your car perform so well with no pump? And if my pump is failing or no good why does it not perform?

I’ve ordered a pump any way as want to put everything back to standard as it helps with diagnosis etc if everything is as it should be.
What does the lift pump actually do differently to an after market simple 12v pump?

As I say, I’m only trying to learn and the only way I do that is understanding what things are supposed to do in the first place. @wammers I’m guessing you know the ins and outs of this, so any input you have will be welcome, as well

Cheers guys.

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If the in tank pump has failed, performance may depend on how worn the FIP is and therefore how well it can drag fuel through, it also depends on how full the tank is. The after market pump could actually make things worse if it restricts flow.

Datatek said:

If the in tank pump has failed, performance may depend on how worn the FIP is and therefore how well it can drag fuel through, it also depends on how full the tank is. The after market pump could actually make things worse if it restricts flow.

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Just out of interest and in the interest of science I disconnected the aftermarket pump tonight, and ran it ........made no difference at all, so definately putting original tank pump in.

Also went through all pipes and change 4 or 5 crap jubilee clips that were doing nothing, so everything was nice and tight. Changed pipe from MAP to Manifold, and checked both holes clear.

EGR been blanked off previously (as per everything else on the car, crudely with the outlet welded up, doesnt look pretty. Valve on side still there but nothing on spigot where pipe went? So blanked this off. Also EGR control still on rear of engine bay. Should this still be plugged in ? On right hand side where two rubber pipes are (third one is still connected to the mini air filter) one had just had a knot tied in it? So capped this properly. Other pipe that runs to metal pipe under the manifold was really perished and split, so changed this one as well.

All the above made no difference to the running (only change was ABS light stayed on? Guessing I've disturbed something, I'll look at that later)

So, has EGR been disconnected properly or has there something that hasn't been done?

Only other thing of note was there is always oil in the big rubber (3 inch?) pipe that connects on to EGR pipe. Is this normal? Was also oil in spigot on manifold connection for the MAP pipe. Again is this normal?

Thanks as always.

The big three inch pipe is the air inlet from the intercooler and will always have a light misting of oil from the turbo.

Probably worth flushing the intercooler if you haven't already. As Brian says you get a little oil drawn through from the turbo so it needs a regular flush. Cannot remember what interval RAVE recommends, maybe 10k miles?

BrenK said:

Just out of interest and in the interest of science I disconnected the aftermarket pump tonight, and ran it ........made no difference at all, so definately putting original tank pump in.

Also went through all pipes and change 4 or 5 crap jubilee clips that were doing nothing, so everything was nice and tight. Changed pipe from MAP to Manifold, and checked both holes clear.

EGR been blanked off previously (as per everything else on the car, crudely with the outlet welded up, doesnt look pretty. Valve on side still there but nothing on spigot where pipe went? So blanked this off. Also EGR control still on rear of engine bay. Should this still be plugged in ? On right hand side where two rubber pipes are (third one is still connected to the mini air filter) one had just had a knot tied in it? So capped this properly. Other pipe that runs to metal pipe under the manifold was really perished and split, so changed this one as well.

All the above made no difference to the running (only change was ABS light stayed on? Guessing I've disturbed something, I'll look at that later)

So, has EGR been disconnected properly or has there something that hasn't been done?

Only other thing of note was there is always oil in the big rubber (3 inch?) pipe that connects on to EGR pipe. Is this normal? Was also oil in spigot on manifold connection for the MAP pipe. Again is this normal?

Thanks as always.

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Leave the EGR control alone it should be plugged in, just plug the pipe that used to go the the EGR valve and leave the rest in place. I assume the vacuum pump on the front of the cam shaft is still there ?

Datatek said:

Leave the EGR control alone it should be plugged in, just plug the pipe that used to go the the EGR valve and leave the rest in place. I assume the vacuum pump on the front of the cam shaft is still there ?

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Thanks. Yes vacuum pump is still there and connected (that is the pipe that I change the hose from the control unit yesterday)

Took Intercooler out and it been leaking for a while. Thick oily gunge all around bottom left corner (as viewed from front) Will order a replacement as not worth messing with. Guessing from the state of it outside that the inside will be a damn site worse though, so the restriction and the leak can't have been helping performance at all!

Map sensor has oil in to so may as well replace that while I'm at it. Any recommended brands?

Will give me chance to clean manifold etc while I wait for bits. Pipes don't look too bad though.

any body used these? Comments please?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALUMINIU...m=121033936235&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

BrenK said:

Thanks. Yes vacuum pump is still there and connected (that is the pipe that I change the hose from the control unit yesterday)

Took Intercooler out and it been leaking for a while. Thick oily gunge all around bottom left corner (as viewed from front) Will order a replacement as not worth messing with. Guessing from the state of it outside that the inside will be a damn site worse though, so the restriction and the leak can't have been helping performance at all!

Map sensor has oil in to so may as well replace that while I'm at it. Any recommended brands?

Will give me chance to clean manifold etc while I wait for bits. Pipes don't look too bad though.

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You could easily get a new intercooler from a breaker. There is always a bit of oil in the manifold, intercooler etc from the turbo. MAP sensor is probably OK, diagnostics would tell you.
Turbo pipes tend to de-laminate on the inside, not always easy to spot.