Oxy V Plasma

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Lee_D

Guest
Well If I do go ahead with the repairs I've decided it's time to be a little
less brutal. Mr Grinder is going to get some hard earned R&R.

I've got my head around the basic principle of Plasma cutters. And I had a
few lessons at college on oxy acetolene cutting and welding however which
would you go for?

Is Oxy as acurate as Plasma?

If I go the oxy route what costs other than the hoses and mixers etc are
involved?


Lee D
--

www.lrproject.com

Workshop photos from Landrover repairs
& other such tinkerings.
Home of Percy the Jag powered Landrover



 
Lee_D wrote:

> Well If I do go ahead with the repairs I've decided it's time to be a little
> less brutal. Mr Grinder is going to get some hard earned R&R.
>
> I've got my head around the basic principle of Plasma cutters. And I had a
> few lessons at college on oxy acetolene cutting and welding however which
> would you go for?
>
> Is Oxy as acurate as Plasma?

Plasma is neater and more accurate than oxy, especially in inexperienced
hands, and puts out less heat so things distort significantly less.

> If I go the oxy route what costs other than the hoses and mixers etc are
> involved?

Gas cylinders and their contents, regulators, the right cutting tip.

--
EMB
change two to number to reply
 
Lee_D wrote:
> Well If I do go ahead with the repairs I've decided it's time to be a little
> less brutal. Mr Grinder is going to get some hard earned R&R.
>
> I've got my head around the basic principle of Plasma cutters. And I had a
> few lessons at college on oxy acetolene cutting and welding however which
> would you go for?
>
> Is Oxy as acurate as Plasma?

A correctly sized Plasma cutter is much faster and more accurate than an
oxy-acetylene. Typical "kerf" in 4mm plate is around 1mm. There is a
slight flare at the back of the cut.

There is now one in the landrover hospital :))

Steve
 
"Steve Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> There is now one in the landrover hospital :))

I've got one here too but sadly it's a bit too technical for me... needs a
Bottle of Nitrogen.. set of mixers and a BIG compressor to work as
designed.. Way beyond my apptitude and nearly as big as a smart car...
Infact It would be simpler to fit an engine and seats.

I'm seriously considering the option of replacing my compressor and going
for a Plasma able to cut 8mm which should be way more than I ever need to
cut but with the 101 Chassis and making angle iron bit's and bobs may be
handy to have a little extra grunt.

Then I'll be looking for a way to make a plasma bench next. :)

Lee D




 
Lee_D wrote:

>
> I've got one here too but sadly it's a bit too technical for me... needs a
> Bottle of Nitrogen.. set of mixers and a BIG compressor to work as
> designed.. Way beyond my apptitude and nearly as big as a smart car...
> Infact It would be simpler to fit an engine and seats.

What's its capacity in mild steel.Whats the nitrogen for ?


>
> I'm seriously considering the option of replacing my compressor and going
> for a Plasma able to cut 8mm which should be way more than I ever need to
> cut but with the 101 Chassis and making angle iron bit's and bobs may be
> handy to have a little extra grunt.
>

We reckoned 1/4 " was enough - the price hike between that and an 8mm is
quite a big one, and the electrical supply doesn't need to be 3 phase....


Steve
 
Lee_D wrote:

> "Steve Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Lee_D wrote:
>>What's its capacity in mild steel.Whats the nitrogen for ?
>
>
> http://science.howstuffworks.com/plasma-cutter4.htm
>
> Dunno about the capacity etc.. It's all a bit technical for me being an
> industrial unit.

The shielding nitrogen is generally only used when cutting ally or
stainless that is going to be welded afterwards; for mild steel it's not
necessary.


--
EMB
change two to number to reply
 
"EMB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lee_D wrote:
>
> > "Steve Taylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> >>Lee_D wrote:
> >>What's its capacity in mild steel.Whats the nitrogen for ?
> >
> >
> > http://science.howstuffworks.com/plasma-cutter4.htm
> >
> > Dunno about the capacity etc.. It's all a bit technical for me being an
> > industrial unit.
>
> The shielding nitrogen is generally only used when cutting ally or
> stainless that is going to be welded afterwards; for mild steel it's not
> necessary.

Now that alone is more input than hours of surfing I've done. I may just try
this one on a bigger compressor first based on that theory.

When I did try it I was getting a very small amount of plasma out but the
tip was burned badly just in my 3 minute trial.. Is this indicative of no
enough air? I'd assumed (as you shouldn't) that is was the lack of nitrogen.

Lee D


 
Lee_D wrote:

> Now that alone is more input than hours of surfing I've done. I may just try
> this one on a bigger compressor first based on that theory.
>
> When I did try it I was getting a very small amount of plasma out but the
> tip was burned badly just in my 3 minute trial.. Is this indicative of no
> enough air? I'd assumed (as you shouldn't) that is was the lack of nitrogen.

My small (10mm) plasma cutter needs about 5cfm of air at 70 PSI to
operate correctly. To get this you will need a compressor rated for at
least 12cfm free air displacement - my 16cfm keeps up quite well. Also
make sure you use the supplied standoff - some plasma cutters are not
made to be the contact type, and they all work better 1-2mm off the surface.

The tips burn relatively quickly especially if you're working on
galvanised, dirty or painted material. It's not unusual for me to get
through half a dozen tips in a morning - still much cheaper than using
oxy/acteylene. For heavy cutting work (>12mm) the most economical way
(if you haven't got a big plasma cutter) is with oxy/propane - cheap,
clean and not affected by rust.

--
EMB
change two to number to reply
 
"EMB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My small (10mm) plasma cutter needs about 5cfm of air at 70 PSI to
> operate correctly. To get this you will need a compressor rated for at
> least 12cfm free air displacement - my 16cfm keeps up quite well. Also
> make sure you use the supplied standoff - some plasma cutters are not
> made to be the contact type, and they all work better 1-2mm off the
surface.

Right, I think I'm getting somewhere now. I got a little confused by the
output of my compressor. But as you say it's the free air displacment
figures I need to know and not the figures quoted off the cuff in the
machine mart catalogue. I was very diappointed when I got my compressor to
find it wouldn't power half the tools I wanted to run on it yet the CFM was
as matching.. Is there a method to work out the free running air cfm from a
compressor to know what tools will or won't work properly on them?

>
> The tips burn relatively quickly especially if you're working on
> galvanised, dirty or painted material. It's not unusual for me to get
> through half a dozen tips in a morning - still much cheaper than using
> oxy/acteylene. For heavy cutting work (>12mm) the most economical way
> (if you haven't got a big plasma cutter) is with oxy/propane - cheap,
> clean and not affected by rust.

Don't suppose you have access to a digital camera and a new tip? I'm still
trying to find a source of tips but awaiting a reply from Linde gas america
having had no joy from Sweden.

Lee D



 
Lee_D wrote:

>
> Now that alone is more input than hours of surfing I've done. I may just try
> this one on a bigger compressor first based on that theory.

The link below has a good review of one of the Miller plasma cutters and
some quite good explanations and tips if you're new to the game.

http://www.off-road.com/chevy/miller/plasma/2050.html

--
EMB
change two to number to reply
 
Lee_D wrote:

> Right, I think I'm getting somewhere now. I got a little confused by the
> output of my compressor. But as you say it's the free air displacment
> figures I need to know and not the figures quoted off the cuff in the
> machine mart catalogue. I was very diappointed when I got my compressor to
> find it wouldn't power half the tools I wanted to run on it yet the CFM was
> as matching.. Is there a method to work out the free running air cfm from a
> compressor to know what tools will or won't work properly on them?

Free air displacement is what the catalogue probably states (and it's
normally an optimistic figure). My 16cfm compressor at home delivers a
fairly honest 6cfm at 100psi, the 55cfm at work delivers about 20cfm at
100psi. So as a rough guide you'd be fairly safe dividing the quoted
output by 3 to get delivery at 100psi and by 2 for 60psi.
>
>
>>The tips burn relatively quickly especially if you're working on
>>galvanised, dirty or painted material. It's not unusual for me to get
>>through half a dozen tips in a morning - still much cheaper than using
>>oxy/acteylene. For heavy cutting work (>12mm) the most economical way
>>(if you haven't got a big plasma cutter) is with oxy/propane - cheap,
>>clean and not affected by rust.
>
>
> Don't suppose you have access to a digital camera and a new tip? I'm still
> trying to find a source of tips but awaiting a reply from Linde gas america
> having had no joy from Sweden.

Sorry, digital camera has been swimming (long story involving a
Landrover, a flooded road and lack of thought) and I haven't replaced it
yet. Page 23 of the Miller manual below has a pretty good diagram though.
http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o2229l_mil.pdf

--
EMB
change two to number to reply
 
On or around Wed, 08 Sep 2004 20:29:51 GMT, "Lee_D" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>Is Oxy as acurate as Plasma?

depends how good you are with it. more chance of setting things on fire.
>
>If I go the oxy route what costs other than the hoses and mixers etc are
>involved?

bottle rental, gas costs. You can use Oxy-propane for cutting but you'll
need lots of Oxy. if you want to weld you have to have Acetylene, though
no-one ever gave me a convincing reason why.

 
>bottle rental, gas costs. You can use Oxy-propane for cutting but you'll
>need lots of Oxy. if you want to weld you have to have Acetylene, though
>no-one ever gave me a convincing reason why.
>

Current BOC pricing is £68 a year rental for the bottle, £14.64
per fill for the gas, and £8.95 for the transaction (ie swapping
an empty for a full bottle. All these for the 'W' size bottle which
is the biggest for practical purposes. I dither between think this
isn't unreasonable and thinking it's a right bloody rip-off.

Supposed competitors (eg Linde, Air Products) may be cheaper
but I've never been able to find out any information about them,
has anyone else?

AIUI, acetylene provides the hottest oxy-fuel flame of any readily
available fuel gas, but MAPP is a close second and a lot safer
in many respects so I don't know why it isn't used more.

You can weld some materials using oxy-hydrogen and oxy-propane.

Nick
 
On or around 09 Sep 2004 17:36:56 GMT, [email protected]
(Nicknelsonleeds) enlightened us thusly:

>Supposed competitors (eg Linde, Air Products) may be cheaper
>but I've never been able to find out any information about them,
>has anyone else?

we have the small air products cylinders, size MD30 I think, about
half-height and slightly smaller diameter than the "big" oxy ones.

I'll try and find out the prices of bigguns when I next go for gas.
 
>we have the small air products cylinders, size MD30 I think, about
>half-height and slightly smaller diameter than the "big" oxy ones.
>
>I'll try and find out the prices of bigguns when I next go for gas.
>

That would ne helpful, thanks.

Nick

 
Hi,

You can weld with Oxy Propane it is just a bit cooler. Not such an easy job.
Acetylene is much better.

As for cutting go for a Plasma every time. A cutting torch will only cut
ferrus metals. It is very crude and tends to leave a poor edge. It gets the
metal red hot then burns a hole with pure oxygen.
Plasma will cut any metal, steel, brass, Aluminium (nice blue colour). It
has a very concentrated heat and will give a nice edge first time. Put a
steel top on your chippy's saw horses and lay the metal over it. then attach
the earth to the steel tops and away you go.You can cut arround shapes or
along rulers to get the shapes needed. It blows away bolt heads nicely.
Great for Land Rover body work.

Not cheap but definatly the professionals choice.

John Kaye


"Nicknelsonleeds" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >bottle rental, gas costs. You can use Oxy-propane for cutting but you'll
> >need lots of Oxy. if you want to weld you have to have Acetylene, though
> >no-one ever gave me a convincing reason why.
> >
>
> Current BOC pricing is £68 a year rental for the bottle, £14.64
> per fill for the gas, and £8.95 for the transaction (ie swapping
> an empty for a full bottle. All these for the 'W' size bottle which
> is the biggest for practical purposes. I dither between think this
> isn't unreasonable and thinking it's a right bloody rip-off.
>
> Supposed competitors (eg Linde, Air Products) may be cheaper
> but I've never been able to find out any information about them,
> has anyone else?
>
> AIUI, acetylene provides the hottest oxy-fuel flame of any readily
> available fuel gas, but MAPP is a close second and a lot safer
> in many respects so I don't know why it isn't used more.
>
> You can weld some materials using oxy-hydrogen and oxy-propane.
>
> Nick


 
"j_kaye" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> It blows away bolt heads nicely.
> Great for Land Rover body work.
>
> Not cheap but definatly the professionals choice.
>
> John Kaye
>


Call me semi professional , shares in Machine mart should see a rise in the
very very near future.

It was the blowing heads off bolts that won me over. Especially looking at a
few on the Rangie which are well past it.

Lee D
--

www.lrproject.com

Workshop photos from Landrover repairs
& other such tinkerings.
Home of Percy the Jag powered Landrover




 
Lee_D wrote:
>
> It was the blowing heads off bolts that won me over. Especially looking at a
> few on the Rangie which are well past it.

I'd like to see how you'd do that.

Steve
 
On or around Sat, 11 Sep 2004 18:00:42 +0100, Steve Taylor
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Lee_D wrote:
>>
>> It was the blowing heads off bolts that won me over. Especially looking at a
>> few on the Rangie which are well past it.
>
>I'd like to see how you'd do that.

drill ickle holes in 'em and fill same with tiny charges of dynamite?

 
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