OT: Paint reaction.

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Lee_D

Guest
Alfie is getting a new coat.

The bit that was most recently dinked has a layer of paint that is reacting
with the primer filler I've used.I wiped it clean, rubbed it back and tried
with acid etch primer just for effect and the same reaction occurs.Its best
described as a wrinkley edge to one particular layer of paint.

Am I right in my suspicion that the Primer filler that Halfords sell has no
sealer properties at all? It's the wet sand coloured stuff.
I thought it acted as a sealer as well but I'm suspecting I'm wrong now.

I've never had this problem before so it has me foxed a little.

Lee D

--

www.lrproject.com

Workshop photos from Landrover repairs
& other such tinkerings.
Home of Percy the Jag powered Landrover


 
On Mon, 16 May 2005 21:49:16 +0100, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Alfie is getting a new coat.
>
>The bit that was most recently dinked has a layer of paint that is reacting
>with the primer filler I've used.I wiped it clean, rubbed it back and tried
>with acid etch primer just for effect and the same reaction occurs.Its best
>described as a wrinkley edge to one particular layer of paint.
>
>Am I right in my suspicion that the Primer filler that Halfords sell has no
>sealer properties at all? It's the wet sand coloured stuff.
>I thought it acted as a sealer as well but I'm suspecting I'm wrong now.

What is the halfords primer filler? is it filler or primer? or is it
like a thick primer?

Is it the existing paint that is not happy with the primer filler
stuff?, or the new coat you are trying to put on top of the primer
filler?


I found that you got wierd effects like you are describing when i
tried to spray some halfords spray paint (which was acryillic paint)
on top of a piece of car that was painted with cellulose.

They obviously dont like to mix!

Is the halfords primer filler stuff a acrylic paint, and you are
trying to put it on top of a different type of paint?


 
"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> I found that you got wierd effects like you are describing when i
> tried to spray some halfords spray paint (which was acryillic paint)
> on top of a piece of car that was painted with cellulose.
>
> They obviously dont like to mix!
>
> Is the halfords primer filler stuff a acrylic paint, and you are
> trying to put it on top of a different type of paint?
>
>

It doesn't say on the tin :0( . It's happy on the surface coat and happy on
every other repair area , just this front wing which may have been repaired
before as I suspect that this corner has had a dink before, it had an ealry
indicator unit fastened to it before last weeks close encouter. Now it has a
matching pair of indicators units.

It's a think hi build primer and closer inspection of the tin reveals no
indication that it acts as a sealer contrary to my belief.

I suspect its cellulose as the top coat is ok, just where it's mapping on
one sub layer.

Lee D


 
In message <[email protected]>
"Lee_D" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Alfie is getting a new coat.
>
>The bit that was most recently dinked has a layer of paint that is reacting
>with the primer filler I've used.I wiped it clean, rubbed it back and tried
>with acid etch primer just for effect and the same reaction occurs.Its best
>described as a wrinkley edge to one particular layer of paint.
>
>Am I right in my suspicion that the Primer filler that Halfords sell has no
>sealer properties at all? It's the wet sand coloured stuff.
>I thought it acted as a sealer as well but I'm suspecting I'm wrong now.
>
>I've never had this problem before so it has me foxed a little.
>
>Lee D
>
The probable cause is solvent reaction.

Paint manufacturers are not always compatible with others even when
using the same paint type, Cellulose for example or cellulose thinners
is not always compatible with itself, meaning you can paint a vehicle
in a particular batch of cellulose paint and a week later re-paint the
same panel and you can encounter paint reactions simply because the
thinner is reacting with itself by re-softening the underneath layers,
which is exactly how cellulose finishing is supposed to work.

Primer surfacers can also cause reactions because primer is applied
thicker and the solvent has a chance to penetrate or react with inner
layers leading to pickling.

The possible cure:

You could seal or isolate the affected area by using something like
Barcote or better still apply heat to warm the panel first and then
build up layer upon layer of primer each as a dry coat, this will stop
further reactions appearing with the primer given less time to react.

Primer does not act as a sealer it simply builds up layers to create a
level area which should avoid the hollow which often shows up on repair
work. Primer will hide a multitude of sins but it will not seal them.

It is possible to paint over acrylic with cellulose but not recommended
the other way round. Also aerosols use much thinner paint material to
force it out of the can and this is notorious for causing pickling when
doing repair work.

Recently applied paint or softer paintwork is more likely to sustain
reactions than older hardened paint.

Steve.


--
Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
Using a British RISC Operating System 100% immune to any Windows virus.
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce
 
"Stephen Hull" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>

> The probable cause is solvent reaction.
>
> Paint manufacturers are not always compatible with others even when
> using the same paint type, Cellulose for example or cellulose thinners
> is not always compatible with itself, meaning you can paint a vehicle
> in a particular batch of cellulose paint and a week later re-paint the
> same panel and you can encounter paint reactions simply because the
> thinner is reacting with itself by re-softening the underneath layers,
> which is exactly how cellulose finishing is supposed to work.
>
> Primer surfacers can also cause reactions because primer is applied
> thicker and the solvent has a chance to penetrate or react with inner
> layers leading to pickling.
>
> The possible cure:
>
> You could seal or isolate the affected area by using something like
> Barcote or better still apply heat to warm the panel first and then
> build up layer upon layer of primer each as a dry coat, this will stop
> further reactions appearing with the primer given less time to react.
>
> Primer does not act as a sealer it simply builds up layers to create a
> level area which should avoid the hollow which often shows up on repair
> work. Primer will hide a multitude of sins but it will not seal them.
>
> It is possible to paint over acrylic with cellulose but not recommended
> the other way round. Also aerosols use much thinner paint material to
> force it out of the can and this is notorious for causing pickling when
> doing repair work.
>
> Recently applied paint or softer paintwork is more likely to sustain
> reactions than older hardened paint.
>
> Steve.
>

Thanks Steve, I've just got some sealer I'll let you know how I go on. As
always I've learned something new again from you and you put it across well
(I understood it without having to read it twice - now for the instructions
for my new spray gun....).

Regards

Lee D


 
In message <[email protected]>
"Lee_D" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"Stephen Hull" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> In message <[email protected]>
>
>> The probable cause is solvent reaction.

[snip]

>Thanks Steve, I've just got some sealer I'll let you know how I go on.
>As always I've learned something new again from you and you put it
>across well (I understood it without having to read it twice - now
>for the instructions for my new spray gun....).
>
>Regards
>
>Lee D
>
No problem Lee,
Sometimes I have to read things I've just written twice (I must have
been on a roll last night), Just hope I'm right with my diagnosis with
not seeing the paintwork, But I couldn't just sit back and see you
struggle.

The sealer will definitely do the trick though, do let me know how you
get on ;)

Steve.


--
Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
Using a British RISC Operating System 100% immune to any Windows virus.
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce
 
"Stephen Hull" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> The sealer will definitely do the trick though, do let me know how you
> get on ;)
>
> Steve.
>
>
> --
> Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
> Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes

:0)

The sealer did the trick. got the sealer on all the way around, flatted and
two coats of primer on too. Not bad given I had to scrounge the Disco off
Mrs D as the 101 is misisng... walked home after dropping the Disco off. Got
all set up and ready to go with my first mix of sealer in the new HVLP gun.
pulled the trigger and the blasted thing snapped the pin which is part of
the trigger....grrrrr!!

Anyway I risked the 101 and managed to get a replacement. 101 was running ok
too which is most strange.

I also managed to eventually discover that the pressure guage on the
compressor doesn't really do justice for the pressure at the other end of
the hose, but then I'm running a 20 metre extension hose.

I'm going to flat off the primer shortly and fingers crossed for a dry
morning. I'm working in a £30 3m by 6m garden pavillion.

Thus far I'm impressed with the low amoounts of overspray. I expected much
more but I guess the HVLP gun helps alot with that.

I think the sealer also did me a favour as by the time I'd put the sealer on
then worked out after the first layer of primer that the pressure wasn't
enough the second layer went on much more easily.

I'll be well chuffed it the top coat goes on as well. If it does rain in the
morning am I best avoiding the top coat yet? I've got anti bloom thinners
and also the laqure is wixed in with the top coat.

As always I've rattled a few piccys off which I'll upload soon.

Lee D
--

www.lrproject.com

Workshop photos from Landrover repairs
& other such tinkerings.
Home of Percy the Jag powered Landrover


 
In message <[email protected]>
"Lee_D" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"Stephen Hull" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>> The sealer will definitely do the trick though, do let me know how
>> you get on ;)
>>
>> Steve.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
>> Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
>
>:0)
>
>The sealer did the trick. got the sealer on all the way around,
>flatted and two coats of primer on too. Not bad given I had to
>scrounge the Disco off Mrs D as the 101 is misisng... walked home
>after dropping the Disco off. Got all set up and ready to go with my
>first mix of sealer in the new HVLP gun. pulled the trigger and the
>blasted thing snapped the pin which is part of the trigger....grrrrr!!

The sealer route is a guaranteed solvent reation free method.

>Anyway I risked the 101 and managed to get a replacement. 101 was
>running ok too which is most strange.
>
>I also managed to eventually discover that the pressure guage on the
>compressor doesn't really do justice for the pressure at the other end of
>the hose, but then I'm running a 20 metre extension hose.

A 20 meter hose at 1/4 bore will lose about 60psi by the time it gets to
the gun. The compresser will need to churn out about 120psi to cope,
however in your case using a HVLP gun which is designed to use as
little as 10-20psi for most jobs would counteract this pressure drop.

>I'm going to flat off the primer shortly and fingers crossed for a dry
>morning. I'm working in a £30 3m by 6m garden pavillion.

Plenty of ventilation for you then, watch the flies though ;(

>Thus far I'm impressed with the low amoounts of overspray. I expected much
>more but I guess the HVLP gun helps alot with that.

How did you find the HVLP gun?, It took me a while to get used to one
after sprying at 50-60psi most of the time in cellulose finishes.
IIRC the overspray or paint waste is reduced by 75% making spraying more
economical and cost effective.

>I think the sealer also did me a favour as by the time I'd put the sealer on
>then worked out after the first layer of primer that the pressure wasn't
>enough the second layer went on much more easily.
>
>I'll be well chuffed it the top coat goes on as well. If it does rain in the
>morning am I best avoiding the top coat yet? I've got anti bloom thinners
>and also the laqure is wixed in with the top coat.

Usually you would leave primer overnight to harden sufficiently ready
for a wet flat next morning but don't forget to use soap or pour some
fairy liquid in your bucket to stop the wet-or-dry from clogging up.

Unless you're unlucky and get a considerable damp or cold spell you
won't need anti-bloom thinners but if you do use it remember it takes
longer to dry than standard or top gloss thinners if you want to avoid
runs etc.

>As always I've rattled a few piccys off which I'll upload soon.

I have a look later ;)

Steve.


--
Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
Using a British RISC Operating System 100% immune to any Windows virus.
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce
 
On Tue, 17 May 2005 18:17:05 +0000 (UTC), Stephen Hull
<[email protected]> wrote:

>>I think the sealer also did me a favour as by the time I'd put the sealer on
>>then worked out after the first layer of primer that the pressure wasn't
>>enough the second layer went on much more easily.
>>
>>I'll be well chuffed it the top coat goes on as well. If it does rain in the
>>morning am I best avoiding the top coat yet? I've got anti bloom thinners
>>and also the laqure is wixed in with the top coat.
>
>Usually you would leave primer overnight to harden sufficiently ready
>for a wet flat next morning but don't forget to use soap or pour some
>fairy liquid in your bucket to stop the wet-or-dry from clogging up.

When i did my car last year i didnt leave it overnight for the primer
coat to dry.
I put 2 coats of primer on in fairly quick succession and then left it
for an hour or so while i had my lunch before starting my top coats!

What else would i have achieved if i had left the primer to dry for
longer?
The finish i got doesnt seem overly bad - the only problems i can see
i have put down to insufficient surface prep, and where it has shrunk
very slightly over the filler.

>Unless you're unlucky and get a considerable damp or cold spell you
>won't need anti-bloom thinners but if you do use it remember it takes
>longer to dry than standard or top gloss thinners if you want to avoid
>runs etc.

I didnt have any trouble from the cold when i did my car at the end of
last year. I was in a garage (which was unheated apart from my leccy
heater). There was frost on the roof when i was out there and i didnt
get warm enough to take my coat off all day - So you should be okay in
the temperatures we are getting now!
I used normal thinners and lots of very thin coats. I got a better
finish on those bits than i did on the stuff i did in the warm a month
or two earlier!
>
>>As always I've rattled a few piccys off which I'll upload soon.

Are you gonna do morph after alfie? - else the 101's are going to be
twins again as i have some nice shiny bare ally now!


 
"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 17 May 2005 18:17:05 +0000 (UTC), Stephen Hull
> <[email protected]> wrote:

> I didnt have any trouble from the cold when i did my car at the end of
> last year. I was in a garage (which was unheated apart from my leccy
> heater). There was frost on the roof when i was out there and i didnt
> get warm enough to take my coat off all day - So you should be okay in
> the temperatures we are getting now!

I'm just concerned about moisture in the air if it's raining. The Pavillion
is thus far watertight just wondered if rain would affect play or if it's
more mist and see your breath type weather that's the problem.

> I used normal thinners and lots of very thin coats. I got a better
> finish on those bits than i did on the stuff i did in the warm a month
> or two earlier!

I'll be starting with 50/50 unless anyone cares to suggest more thinners?
hic.. #..?.! ;0)

> Are you gonna do morph after alfie? - else the 101's are going to be
> twins again as i have some nice shiny bare ally now!

Yup, but I do have lots more prep to do on Morph, though I think I will br
spraying him given the finish on the primer then I'd be happy with that on
Morph as I don't think there is a gloss on the paint I got, least I've not
see any sparkle in the desert militray arena but for Toyotas with Gattling
guns in the back. Infact primer grey is growing on me, shame to spoil it
really. Only down side to spraying Morph is having nothing big enough to put
him under.

You still going with the Roses chocolates theme ;0)

Lee D
--

www.lrproject.com

Workshop photos from Landrover repairs
& other such tinkerings.
Home of Percy the Jag powered Landrover


 
On Tue, 17 May 2005 22:51:01 +0100, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 17 May 2005 18:17:05 +0000 (UTC), Stephen Hull
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I didnt have any trouble from the cold when i did my car at the end of
>> last year. I was in a garage (which was unheated apart from my leccy
>> heater). There was frost on the roof when i was out there and i didnt
>> get warm enough to take my coat off all day - So you should be okay in
>> the temperatures we are getting now!
>
>I'm just concerned about moisture in the air if it's raining. The Pavillion
>is thus far watertight just wondered if rain would affect play or if it's
>more mist and see your breath type weather that's the problem.

Ive just remembered when i did my front spoiler. It started ****ing it
down and thundering about 2 minutes after i started spraying the top
coat and didnt stop. That bloomed quite a bit and even now hasnt
polished up as well as other bits.

While i was doing the rest, it was see-your-breath weather and it was
fine with good thin paint. I also got the odd shower while doing some
of it - but as long as it didnt get humid too it was fine. I think
that biref showers are fine - its just heavy rain or when it gets too
humid that causes hassle.

>> I used normal thinners and lots of very thin coats. I got a better
>> finish on those bits than i did on the stuff i did in the warm a month
>> or two earlier!
>
>I'll be starting with 50/50 unless anyone cares to suggest more thinners?
>hic.. #..?.! ;0)

Thats what i started with when i did the first bit of my car. I was on
more like 40/60 paint/thinners, or even thinner (like 30/70) by the
time i had worked round the the last bits of car and got the hang of
it better.

The last bits were much easier and im much happier with the finish.

Lots of thin coats works a lot better than fewer thick ones and gives
more gloss it is also a lot easier to keep the 'wet-edge' going when
the paint is thinner and takes longer to dry.
If you leave the paint too thick then it dries so quickly that you
cant see where you have been!

Remember that when the paint is thinner to not spray it too deep as
then it will run - which is whiy i'd go for lots of quick thin coats..

>> Are you gonna do morph after alfie? - else the 101's are going to be
>> twins again as i have some nice shiny bare ally now!
>
>Yup, but I do have lots more prep to do on Morph, though I think I will br
>spraying him given the finish on the primer then I'd be happy with that on
>Morph as I don't think there is a gloss on the paint I got, least I've not
>see any sparkle in the desert militray arena but for Toyotas with Gattling
>guns in the back. Infact primer grey is growing on me, shame to spoil it
>really. Only down side to spraying Morph is having nothing big enough to put
>him under.

it needs a sunny weekend! Hard thing to guarantee round here!

>You still going with the Roses chocolates theme ;0)

Nobody i have mentioned it to is convinced, yet it works in my mind! I
need to work out photoshop and sort out a mock up first really!



 
In message <[email protected]>
Tom Woods <[email protected]> wrote:

>>Usually you would leave primer overnight to harden sufficiently ready
>>for a wet flat next morning but don't forget to use soap or pour some
>>fairy liquid in your bucket to stop the wet-or-dry from clogging up.
>
>When i did my car last year i didnt leave it overnight for the primer
>coat to dry.
>I put 2 coats of primer on in fairly quick succession and then left it
>for an hour or so while i had my lunch before starting my top coats!

If you are just providing a layer of protection then you can spray
right on top but not if you have hollow repair areas to build up.
Primer is supposed to be wet flatted or at least rubbed over to provide
a key but it's particularly important to leave overnight after repair
work when the primer must be left to dry thoroughly otherwise you'll
always get those sinkages called "fried eggs" especially in cellulose.

>What else would i have achieved if i had left the primer to dry for
>longer?

None except in Lee's case the wing area had been repaired in which case
the primer will need building up to beyond the existing layer and then
(next day) flatted to the same level to achieve the best repair.

>The finish i got doesnt seem overly bad - the only problems i can see
>i have put down to insufficient surface prep, and where it has shrunk
>very slightly over the filler.

This would be eliminated if you left the primer to dry thoroughly
overnight and then flatted out the sinkage before applying your top
coats.

>>Unless you're unlucky and get a considerable damp or cold spell you
>>won't need anti-bloom thinners but if you do use it remember it takes
>>longer to dry than standard or top gloss thinners if you want to avoid
>>runs etc.
>
>I didnt have any trouble from the cold when i did my car at the end of
>last year. I was in a garage (which was unheated apart from my leccy
>heater). There was frost on the roof when i was out there and i didnt
>get warm enough to take my coat off all day - So you should be okay in
>the temperatures we are getting now!

That would also depend on the type of thinners used, some thinners are
more susceptible to blooming than others.

Steve.


--
Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
Using a British RISC Operating System 100% immune to any Windows virus.
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce
 
On Tue, 17 May 2005 22:49:23 +0000 (UTC), Stephen Hull
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In message <[email protected]>
> Tom Woods <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>Usually you would leave primer overnight to harden sufficiently ready
>>>for a wet flat next morning but don't forget to use soap or pour some
>>>fairy liquid in your bucket to stop the wet-or-dry from clogging up.
>>
>>When i did my car last year i didnt leave it overnight for the primer
>>coat to dry.
>>I put 2 coats of primer on in fairly quick succession and then left it
>>for an hour or so while i had my lunch before starting my top coats!
>
>If you are just providing a layer of protection then you can spray
>right on top but not if you have hollow repair areas to build up.
>Primer is supposed to be wet flatted or at least rubbed over to provide
>a key but it's particularly important to leave overnight after repair
>work when the primer must be left to dry thoroughly otherwise you'll
>always get those sinkages called "fried eggs" especially in cellulose.
>
>>What else would i have achieved if i had left the primer to dry for
>>longer?
>
>None except in Lee's case the wing area had been repaired in which case
>the primer will need building up to beyond the existing layer and then
>(next day) flatted to the same level to achieve the best repair.
>
>>The finish i got doesnt seem overly bad - the only problems i can see
>>i have put down to insufficient surface prep, and where it has shrunk
>>very slightly over the filler.
>
>This would be eliminated if you left the primer to dry thoroughly
>overnight and then flatted out the sinkage before applying your top
>coats.

Thanks! I had just thought that the 'sinking;' was due to my not
getting the filled sections quite level when i'd rubbed them down or
something.
Next time i will try and leave it overnight to dry. This makes sense
now.
Kinda hard to get 2 consequtive dry days of work sometimes though :( -
Which is why i tried to do it all in one day before.
I did wet flat the primer layers before going over them again.

I did read your website before trying anything!.. When are you going
to add a spraying section that covers this? :)

>>>Unless you're unlucky and get a considerable damp or cold spell you
>>>won't need anti-bloom thinners but if you do use it remember it takes
>>>longer to dry than standard or top gloss thinners if you want to avoid
>>>runs etc.
>>
>>I didnt have any trouble from the cold when i did my car at the end of
>>last year. I was in a garage (which was unheated apart from my leccy
>>heater). There was frost on the roof when i was out there and i didnt
>>get warm enough to take my coat off all day - So you should be okay in
>>the temperatures we are getting now!
>
>That would also depend on the type of thinners used, some thinners are
>more susceptible to blooming than others.

I was using standard £3.95/gallon cellulose thinners.

 
"Stephen Hull" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> How did you find the HVLP gun?, It took me a while to get used to one
> after sprying at 50-60psi most of the time in cellulose finishes.
> IIRC the overspray or paint waste is reduced by 75% making spraying more
> economical and cost effective.

First time I've used any gun to put paint on so I couldn't really tell.

> Usually you would leave primer overnight to harden sufficiently ready
> for a wet flat next morning but don't forget to use soap or pour some
> fairy liquid in your bucket to stop the wet-or-dry from clogging up.

Flatted last night but left overnight for the top coat.

>
> Unless you're unlucky and get a considerable damp or cold spell you
> won't need anti-bloom thinners but if you do use it remember it takes
> longer to dry than standard or top gloss thinners if you want to avoid
> runs etc.

H'mm I used the Anti bloom as thats all I had, bit belt and braces but
rather that way than the other.

Right... now I've demasked how long before I can rinse off the dust?

The finish is...er.... Blue! :0) .. and all the panels are the same colour.
A good polish and Alfie will be his old self again.

And at last I don't have to go to work early in the dark ;0). Just hope this
layer gets over the cloaking device which seems to self activate. (I.e.
others can now see Alfie "the incredible invisible Range Rover" rather than
run into me)

Lee D
--

www.lrproject.com

Workshop photos from Landrover repairs
& other such tinkerings.
Home of Percy the Jag powered Landrover


 
In message <[email protected]>
"Lee_D" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"Stephen Hull" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>> How did you find the HVLP gun?, It took me a while to get used to one
>> after sprying at 50-60psi most of the time in cellulose finishes.
>> IIRC the overspray or paint waste is reduced by 75% making spraying more
>> economical and cost effective.
>
>First time I've used any gun to put paint on so I couldn't really tell.

Probably better for you then to use the HVLP from scratch.

>> Usually you would leave primer overnight to harden sufficiently ready
>> for a wet flat next morning but don't forget to use soap or pour some
>> fairy liquid in your bucket to stop the wet-or-dry from clogging up.
>
>Flatted last night but left overnight for the top coat.

Good idea, this allows the paint to breath after flatting which softens
it and harden off again.

>>
>> Unless you're unlucky and get a considerable damp or cold spell you
>> won't need anti-bloom thinners but if you do use it remember it takes
>> longer to dry than standard or top gloss thinners if you want to avoid
>> runs etc.
>
>H'mm I used the Anti bloom as thats all I had, bit belt and braces but
>rather that way than the other.
>
>Right... now I've demasked how long before I can rinse off the dust?

A couple of days is usually sufficient.

>The finish is...er.... Blue! :0) .. and all the panels are the same colour.
>A good polish and Alfie will be his old self again.

Indeed!

>And at last I don't have to go to work early in the dark ;0). Just hope this
>layer gets over the cloaking device which seems to self activate. (I.e.
>others can now see Alfie "the incredible invisible Range Rover" rather than
>run into me)
>
>Lee D

Steve.


--
Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
Using a British RISC Operating System 100% immune to any Windows virus.
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce
 
In message <[email protected]>
Tom Woods <[email protected]> wrote:

[snip]

>>This would be eliminated if you left the primer to dry thoroughly
>>overnight and then flatted out the sinkage before applying your top
>>coats.
>
>Thanks! I had just thought that the 'sinking;' was due to my not
>getting the filled sections quite level when i'd rubbed them down or
>something.
>Next time i will try and leave it overnight to dry. This makes sense
>now.
>Kinda hard to get 2 consequtive dry days of work sometimes though :( -
>Which is why i tried to do it all in one day before.
>I did wet flat the primer layers before going over them again.
>
>I did read your website before trying anything!.. When are you going
>to add a spraying section that covers this? :)

I'm working on a project that should fill the gap with reference to
spraying, Spraying is just one particular subject I intend to include
in an illustrated book showing the stages from start to finish in both
synthetic coachpainting and Cellulose spraying.
I already have a publisher waiting in the wings, I just hope it
generates sufficient interest ;-)

>>>I didnt have any trouble from the cold when i did my car at the end of
>>>last year. I was in a garage (which was unheated apart from my leccy
>>>heater). There was frost on the roof when i was out there and i didnt
>>>get warm enough to take my coat off all day - So you should be okay in
>>>the temperatures we are getting now!
>>
>>That would also depend on the type of thinners used, some thinners are
>>more susceptible to blooming than others.
>
>I was using standard £3.95/gallon cellulose thinners.
>
Standard thinners can fair quite well it's the higher quality or top
gloss thinners that are more prone to bloomimg.

Steve.

--
Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
Using a British RISC Operating System 100% immune to any Windows virus.
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce
 
"Stephen Hull" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>The finish is...er.... Blue! :0) .. and all the panels are the same
>>colour.
>>A good polish and Alfie will be his old self again.
>
> Indeed!

Having got over the shock of having a car all one colour I came back down to
earth this morning. There was a nasty coarseness to some areas of the paint
and reflections aren't really existant on the inital finish,

Ok ok I admit it, I flatted , t-cut and polished a small area (which will be
hidden by a bumper end cap).

WOW!

If the rest of the car turns out so well I'm going to be one Happy Chicken.
I could see reflections in it! NO I MEAN LIKE SHINNEY ONES!!!

My main question now is how long before I can safely flat, t-cut and polish
the rest... and where does compound fit in to it? Is it like T cut?

I'm thinking along the lines of soapy 1000 then soapy 1200 grit , T-cut
then Mer polish (what I happened to have at hand anyway).

Also buffers.... what stage should / would you use one? I've a urge for such
tools and a large compressor which should power one.

Count me in for a book purchase, I've tried two techniques now, synthetic
with a roller and now cellulose with a gun and I could send you some piccys
from a first timers crack based on your pointers... The roller one is
here...

http://www.lrproject.com/percy/painted/

Alfies piccys will be along post polishing.

Lee D
--

www.lrproject.com

Workshop photos from Landrover repairs
& other such tinkerings.
Home of Percy the Jag powered Landrover


 
On Thu, 19 May 2005 22:36:43 +0100, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"Stephen Hull" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>>The finish is...er.... Blue! :0) .. and all the panels are the same
>>>colour.
>>>A good polish and Alfie will be his old self again.
>>
>> Indeed!
>
>Having got over the shock of having a car all one colour I came back down to
>earth this morning. There was a nasty coarseness to some areas of the paint
>and reflections aren't really existant on the inital finish,
>
>Ok ok I admit it, I flatted , t-cut and polished a small area (which will be
>hidden by a bumper end cap).
>
>WOW!

Thats what i did to the first bit of my car. By the time i got to the
last bits i didnt need to t-cut it afterwards to get the shine! :)

So by the time youve done the 2 back corners you should be good at
it!.


 
"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 19 May 2005 22:36:43 +0100, "Lee_D"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Ok ok I admit it, I flatted , t-cut and polished a small area (which will
>>be
>>hidden by a bumper end cap).
>>
>>WOW!
>
> Thats what i did to the first bit of my car. By the time i got to the
> last bits i didnt need to t-cut it afterwards to get the shine! :)
>
> So by the time youve done the 2 back corners you should be good at
> it!.

I did it all in the same day...... and didn't get any better at it. BUT I'm
not too disappointed as I now know what it will polish up like.

Lee D


 
In message <[email protected]>
"Lee_D" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"Stephen Hull" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>>The finish is...er.... Blue! :0) .. and all the panels are the same
>>>colour.
>>>A good polish and Alfie will be his old self again.
>>
>> Indeed!
>
>Having got over the shock of having a car all one colour I came back
>down to earth this morning. There was a nasty coarseness to some
>areas of the paint and reflections aren't really existant on the
>inital finish,
>
>Ok ok I admit it, I flatted , t-cut and polished a small area (which
>will be hidden by a bumper end cap).
>
>WOW!

Cellulose can provide outstanding mirror finish results if you put
the time in on the prep and work the paint properly.

>If the rest of the car turns out so well I'm going to be one Happy
>Chicken. I could see reflections in it! NO I MEAN LIKE SHINNEY
>ONES!!!
>
>My main question now is how long before I can safely flat, t-cut and
>polish the rest... and where does compound fit in to it? Is it like T
>cut?

You can quite safely flat now, normally though cellulose required a week
or more to cure thoroughly which is when you're supposed to polish it
but no one waits a week, waiting a week allows the paint to settle or
sink if you polish it straight away there is a possibility of certain
repair areas sinking again but that's not usually a problem on a Landy.

>I'm thinking along the lines of soapy 1000 then soapy 1200 grit , T-cut
>then Mer polish (what I happened to have at hand anyway).

1000 is an ideal grade, 1200 might be a bit too fine but I wouldn't use
T-cut it's also too fine, T-cut is more a cleanser that a true polish a
bit like Brasso, What you should use is proper rubbing compound like
Farecla G3 which is suitable for hand or machine polishing/compounding.

>Also buffers.... what stage should / would you use one? I've a urge
>for such tools and a large compressor which should power one.

You can use a buffer now but still use Farecla G3 as the polishing
medium.

>Count me in for a book purchase, I've tried two techniques now, synthetic
>with a roller and now cellulose with a gun and I could send you some piccys
>from a first timers crack based on your pointers... The roller one is
>here...

I'll announce the book here when it's done, probably next year as it's
going to be quite comprehensive.

>http://www.lrproject.com/percy/painted/

Did you say what colour you've used?

>Alfies piccys will be along post polishing.
>
>Lee D


Steve.



--
Vehicle Painting Pointers: http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk
Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes
Using a British RISC Operating System 100% immune to any Windows virus.
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce
 
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