OT Halfords Don't you just love 'em

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H

hugh

Guest
This is the scenario
Few days ago we had a power cut - went on for quite a while so decided
to use gas stove in camper van by the house to brew up.
Some time later somebody -let's not play the blame game here- well OK it
was SWMBO, returned kettle to van, but didn't quite close the sliding
door properly. Result this morning one totally flat battery.

Not to worry, get out Halfords Automatic Battery Charger, connect it up,
switch it on and - nothing. Slight hum tells me power is on. There's a
little orange light to tell you its charging and a little green light
to tell you when its gone into maintenance mode. There's EVEN a little
red light to tell you you've connected it the wrong way round - and
blown the fuse. There's a switch to choose between normal battery and
sealed battery and a switch for Bike or Other vehicle battery. What a
clever charger.

Dead as the proverbial dodo. Not a single light on. Perhaps it's gone to
meet it's maker. Auxiliary battery is right next to vehicle battery, so
quick check, and connect it to that - and yes it works. Little orange
light on - charging - soon followed by little green light - maintenance
mode.
Back to vehicle battery - nothing. Get out meter, no voltage. Rig up as
ammeter, no current. Get out test lamp. Connect "earth" lead to + on
vehicle battery and point to + on Aux battery and light comes on. So
vehicle battery is not high resistance/open circuit, so why the f***
won't it charge.

Can't get other vehicle alongside to use jump leads, only way would be
to tow out camper van onto road to get near it to use leads. Can't use
aux battery to start - it would destroy it.

Solution - put a jump lead from + on aux batt to + on vehicle batt to
see what happens. Just touched for an instant and charger which was
still connected, burst into life.

WHAT F****** USE IS A BATTERY CHARGER THAT WON'T CHARGE A TOTALLY FLAT
BATTERY?
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
 
hugh wrote:
> This is the scenario
> Few days ago we had a power cut - went on for quite a while so decided
> to use gas stove in camper van by the house to brew up.
> Some time later somebody -let's not play the blame game here- well OK
> it was SWMBO, returned kettle to van, but didn't quite close the
> sliding door properly. Result this morning one totally flat battery.
>
> Not to worry, get out Halfords Automatic Battery Charger, connect it
> up, switch it on and - nothing. Slight hum tells me power is on.
> There's a little orange light to tell you its charging and a little
> green light to tell you when its gone into maintenance mode. There's
> EVEN a little red light to tell you you've connected it the wrong way
> round - and blown the fuse. There's a switch to choose between normal
> battery and sealed battery and a switch for Bike or Other vehicle
> battery. What a clever charger.
>
> Dead as the proverbial dodo. Not a single light on. Perhaps it's gone
> to meet it's maker. Auxiliary battery is right next to vehicle
> battery, so quick check, and connect it to that - and yes it works.
> Little orange light on - charging - soon followed by little green
> light - maintenance mode.
> Back to vehicle battery - nothing. Get out meter, no voltage. Rig up
> as ammeter, no current. Get out test lamp. Connect "earth" lead to +
> on vehicle battery and point to + on Aux battery and light comes on.
> So vehicle battery is not high resistance/open circuit, so why the
> f*** won't it charge.
>
> Can't get other vehicle alongside to use jump leads, only way would be
> to tow out camper van onto road to get near it to use leads. Can't use
> aux battery to start - it would destroy it.
>
> Solution - put a jump lead from + on aux batt to + on vehicle batt to
> see what happens. Just touched for an instant and charger which was
> still connected, burst into life.
>
> WHAT F****** USE IS A BATTERY CHARGER THAT WON'T CHARGE A TOTALLY FLAT
> BATTERY?

It's the type of battery, most wet cells cannot be brought back from dead, they need a low voltage cut
off & if the charger/usage circuit doesnt have one they die screaming mate. I think (going back in time)
you need a switch mode charger for a very dead cell battery?

Again, an expert will prove me wrong!

--
Subaru WRX (Annabel)

Landrover 110 County Station Wagon (Tyson)

'"Say hello to my little friend"


 
Nige wrote:

> It's the type of battery, most wet cells cannot be brought back from dead, they need a low voltage cut
> off & if the charger/usage circuit doesnt have one they die screaming mate. I think (going back in time)
> you need a switch mode charger for a very dead cell battery?
>
> Again, an expert will prove me wrong!

Nicads and Nimh are also well, damp, internally. and they can be
resuscitated. Lead-acids can if they aren't left "Dodo dead" for long,
they can be brought back, but it takes a great deal of care. If lead
acids cells are left dead, the cell "sulphates" and it will not be the
same again.

Steve
 
On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 23:05:15 +0100, hugh <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> made me
spill my meths when he wrote:

>WHAT F****** USE IS A BATTERY CHARGER THAT WON'T CHARGE A TOTALLY FLAT
>BATTERY?

I can tell you feel better after getting that off your chest :)

I wonder if the flat battery was drawing too much from the charger and
it had some sort of overload protection? Supplementing it with the
other battery might have been enough for it to decide to play game?


--
Wayne Davies - Mobile 07989 556213 - Harrogate, N.Yorks, UK
 
>
>WHAT F****** USE IS A BATTERY CHARGER THAT WON'T CHARGE A TOTALLY FLAT
>BATTERY?

I have the same charger and can tell you how this works...

If the battery has been left on a very low load for long enough to
totally feck it, the Halfords charger will charge it, but you need to
leave it connected for about a week (no really).

Alternatively, strap it in the aux position of a 101 and run it for 10
minutes (an electrical 'kick up the arse'). Then it will charge OK.


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70
 

>WHAT F****** USE IS A BATTERY CHARGER THAT WON'T CHARGE A TOTALLY FLAT
>BATTERY?

If it's a constant voltage battery charger, none at all. Modern
battery chargers are no use at all in circumstances like these (and
not a lot of use the rest of the time either) To ressurect batteries
in that manner you require a constant current battery charger, and a
lot of mucking about. While it is then technically possible to
ressurect the battery, it may not be possible, and the battery may not
be any good at all afterwards
 
On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 09:59:23 +0100, Tim Hobbs <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>If the battery has been left on a very low load for long enough to
>totally feck it, the Halfords charger will charge it, but you need to
>leave it connected for about a week (no really).

I have the same charger and one of those gel cell starter/aux/tyrepump
thingies for emergencies. They both work the same as they sense the
battery terminals for polarity, this is to protect them from wrong
polarity or dead shorts. As such they will not drive a load off the
clamps that has no voltage on it, bit of a b***** when I needed to run
my 12V diesel pump and couldn't get a vehicle near enough.

Easiest solution is to connect a second battery in parallel to the
dead one for a few seconds to fool the charger.

AJH
 
On or around Thu, 01 Sep 2005 23:45:22 +0100, steve Taylor
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Nige wrote:
>
>> It's the type of battery, most wet cells cannot be brought back from dead, they need a low voltage cut
>> off & if the charger/usage circuit doesnt have one they die screaming mate. I think (going back in time)
>> you need a switch mode charger for a very dead cell battery?
>>
>> Again, an expert will prove me wrong!
>
>Nicads and Nimh are also well, damp, internally. and they can be
>resuscitated. Lead-acids can if they aren't left "Dodo dead" for long,
>they can be brought back, but it takes a great deal of care. If lead
>acids cells are left dead, the cell "sulphates" and it will not be the
>same again.

yeah, but that's not "flat overnight", that's dead for months.

sounds like the chattery barger is a heap of ****e. I have a nice fattish
Absaar one which just supplies power to the battery.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Too Busy: Your mind is like a motorway. Sometimes it can be jammed by
too much traffic. Avoid the jams by never using your mind on a
Bank Holiday weekend.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 
"AJH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Easiest solution is to connect a second battery in parallel to the
> dead one for a few seconds to fool the charger.
>
> AJH

Do you ever wish you hadn't binned something!

Lee D


 
On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:13:46 +0100, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"AJH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Easiest solution is to connect a second battery in parallel to the
>> dead one for a few seconds to fool the charger.
>>
>> AJH
>
>Do you ever wish you hadn't binned something!

Never happens, the problem is just finding the bit I'd saved "just in
case" amongst the piles of other debris I've saved. After an hour or
so looking for a bit I know I have somewhere I have to go down the
shop and buy a new one!

AJH
 
On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 12:59:07 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On or around Thu, 01 Sep 2005 23:45:22 +0100, steve Taylor
><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>Nige wrote:
>>
>>> It's the type of battery, most wet cells cannot be brought back from dead, they need a low voltage cut
>>> off & if the charger/usage circuit doesnt have one they die screaming mate. I think (going back in time)
>>> you need a switch mode charger for a very dead cell battery?
>>>
>>> Again, an expert will prove me wrong!
>>
>>Nicads and Nimh are also well, damp, internally. and they can be
>>resuscitated. Lead-acids can if they aren't left "Dodo dead" for long,
>>they can be brought back, but it takes a great deal of care. If lead
>>acids cells are left dead, the cell "sulphates" and it will not be the
>>same again.
>
>yeah, but that's not "flat overnight", that's dead for months.
>
>sounds like the chattery barger is a heap of ****e. I have a nice fattish
>Absaar one which just supplies power to the battery.

I've got one of the Haflrauds auto chargers. It won't start charging a
completely dead battery, somthing to do with current sensors for the
maintenance setting I think.
I put a cheap 4 amp charger on to kick a dead battery in to life
before connecting the Halfrauds special. Or put another battery in
parallel to the dead 'un.

--
ColonelTupperware,
spouting bollocks on Usenet since 1997
Usenet FAQ at
http://www.its.caltech.edu/its/services/internetapps/news/news2.shtml
UPCE FAQ at http://upce.org.uk/ UKRM FAQ at http://www.ukrm.net/faq/
 
On or around Fri, 02 Sep 2005 09:07:55 GMT, Alex <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>
>>WHAT F****** USE IS A BATTERY CHARGER THAT WON'T CHARGE A TOTALLY FLAT
>>BATTERY?
>
>If it's a constant voltage battery charger, none at all. Modern
>battery chargers are no use at all in circumstances like these (and
>not a lot of use the rest of the time either) To ressurect batteries
>in that manner you require a constant current battery charger, and a
>lot of mucking about. While it is then technically possible to
>ressurect the battery, it may not be possible, and the battery may not
>be any good at all afterwards

I still thought that the problematic resuscitation of a dead battery was one
that's been killed and left dead, not one that has just been run flat
yesterday.

Mind, alternators in vehicles won't always recharge a completely dead one.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Satisfying: Satisfy your inner child by eating ten tubes of Smarties
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 
In news:[email protected],
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> blithered:
> On or around Fri, 02 Sep 2005 09:07:55 GMT, Alex
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>
>>> WHAT F****** USE IS A BATTERY CHARGER THAT WON'T CHARGE A TOTALLY
>>> FLAT BATTERY?
>>
>> If it's a constant voltage battery charger, none at all. Modern
>> battery chargers are no use at all in circumstances like these (and
>> not a lot of use the rest of the time either) To ressurect batteries
>> in that manner you require a constant current battery charger, and a
>> lot of mucking about. While it is then technically possible to
>> ressurect the battery, it may not be possible, and the battery may
>> not be any good at all afterwards
>
> I still thought that the problematic resuscitation of a dead battery
> was one that's been killed and left dead, not one that has just been
> run flat yesterday.
>
> Mind, alternators in vehicles won't always recharge a completely dead
> one.

That's because alternators are not usually self exciting so must have a tad of
current to start up. Dynamos on the other hand usually are self exciting because
of residual magnetic field in the field armature.

--
"He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt her doing it."

If at first you don't succeed,
maybe skydiving's not for you!


 
On or around Sat, 3 Sep 2005 21:50:28 +0100, "GbH"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>That's because alternators are not usually self exciting so must have a tad of
>current to start up. Dynamos on the other hand usually are self exciting because
>of residual magnetic field in the field armature.

I knew that, wondered if anyone else did :)
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Beyond the horizon of the place we lived when we were young / In a world
of magnets and miracles / Our thoughts strayed constantly and without
boundary / The ringing of the Division bell had begun. Pink Floyd (1994)
 
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 22:34:10 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On or around Sat, 3 Sep 2005 21:50:28 +0100, "GbH"
><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>
>>That's because alternators are not usually self exciting so must have a tad of
>>current to start up. Dynamos on the other hand usually are self exciting because
>>of residual magnetic field in the field armature.
>
>I knew that, wondered if anyone else did :)

But sometimes a dynamo can require a niad pulse convertor to excite
the flux field in the star-point.

Alex

 
On or around Sat, 03 Sep 2005 23:12:53 GMT, Alex <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 22:34:10 +0100, Austin Shackles
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On or around Sat, 3 Sep 2005 21:50:28 +0100, "GbH"
>><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>>
>>>That's because alternators are not usually self exciting so must have a tad of
>>>current to start up. Dynamos on the other hand usually are self exciting because
>>>of residual magnetic field in the field armature.
>>
>>I knew that, wondered if anyone else did :)
>
>But sometimes a dynamo can require a niad pulse convertor to excite
>the flux field in the star-point.

also, the dymano can need converting to the other polarity if it's wrong.
hmmm. just occured to me to wonder, do alternators have polarity? I
realise the electronic regulator bit does, but the alternator itself
shouldn't mind, so either a rebuilt regulator with the components
arse-about-face or an external regulator like some alternators have should
produce results.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\
>> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!
 

"Alex" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:p[email protected]...
> On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 22:34:10 +0100, Austin Shackles
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On or around Sat, 3 Sep 2005 21:50:28 +0100, "GbH"
>><[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>>
>>>That's because alternators are not usually self exciting so must have a
>>>tad of
>>>current to start up. Dynamos on the other hand usually are self exciting
>>>because
>>>of residual magnetic field in the field armature.
>>
>>I knew that, wondered if anyone else did :)
>
> But sometimes a dynamo can require a niad pulse convertor to excite
> the flux field in the star-point.

But I was under the impression that was only required if you didn't have
the latest tri-lithium power convertor rigged up to the output terminals of
the flux capacitor bank to ensure a tri-cyclic waveform output? :)
Badger.


 
In news:[email protected],
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> blithered:
> On or around Sat, 03 Sep 2005 23:12:53 GMT, Alex
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>> On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 22:34:10 +0100, Austin Shackles
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On or around Sat, 3 Sep 2005 21:50:28 +0100, "GbH"
>>> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's because alternators are not usually self exciting so must
>>>> have a tad of current to start up. Dynamos on the other hand
>>>> usually are self exciting because of residual magnetic field in
>>>> the field armature.
>>>
>>> I knew that, wondered if anyone else did :)
>>
>> But sometimes a dynamo can require a niad pulse convertor to excite
>> the flux field in the star-point.
>
> also, the dymano can need converting to the other polarity if it's
> wrong. hmmm. just occured to me to wonder, do alternators have
> polarity? I realise the electronic regulator bit does, but the
> alternator itself shouldn't mind, so either a rebuilt regulator with
> the components arse-about-face or an external regulator like some
> alternators have should produce results.

IIRC the reason why alternators are made +ve earth is so the diode pack can be
grounded to keep the poor bugger cool.
I think you may run into a problemo just reversing the battery polarity, your
starter motor is going to do its best to crank t'engine back'ards, which ain't
going to happen with a bendix gear but could with a pre-engaged breed. I suggest
your best bet would be to insulate (electrically) the alternator and connect it as
a -ve earth. then you've only one bit of kit to bugger about with, all else
remains unchanged. Except your charge warning light which is going to get awfully
confused.

--
"He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt her doing it."

If at first you don't succeed,
maybe skydiving's not for you!


 
In news:[email protected],
Badger <[email protected]> blithered:
> "Alex" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:p[email protected]...
>> On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 22:34:10 +0100, Austin Shackles
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On or around Sat, 3 Sep 2005 21:50:28 +0100, "GbH"
>>> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's because alternators are not usually self exciting so must
>>>> have a tad of
>>>> current to start up. Dynamos on the other hand usually are self
>>>> exciting because
>>>> of residual magnetic field in the field armature.
>>>
>>> I knew that, wondered if anyone else did :)
>>
>> But sometimes a dynamo can require a niad pulse convertor to excite
>> the flux field in the star-point.
>
> But I was under the impression that was only required if you didn't have the
> latest tri-lithium power convertor rigged up to the output
> terminals of the flux capacitor bank to ensure a tri-cyclic waveform
> output? :) Badger.

Just can't get the plutonium quality these days.

--
"He who says it cannot be done should not interrupt her doing it."

If at first you don't succeed,
maybe skydiving's not for you!


 

>> also, the dymano can need converting to the other polarity if it's
> I think you may run into a problemo just reversing the battery polarity,
> your starter motor is going to do its best to crank t'engine back'ards,

The starter will work perfectly with the polarity reversed, it would only be
a problem if it were a permanent magnet motor, but it's not. The a winding
provides the magnetic field, and this is also reversed so the direction of
rotation will be the same.

If the days around the transition from + to - earth many people swapped the
polarity so they could use -ve radios etc.. Just flash the dynamo to re-set
the residual magnetism and you were away.

Regards
Jeff


 
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