Oil types?

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T

TonyB

Guest
Hi guys
If the manual says use an oil to specACEA B2:96, API CE or better,
can I use API SJ and ACEA A3/B3?

Thanks
TonyB


 
TonyB wrote:
> Hi guys
> If the manual says use an oil to specACEA B2:96, API CE or better,
> can I use API SJ and ACEA A3/B3?

The API Cx ratings are for diesel service, the Sx ratings are for petrol
service. So the API data you have given us is not particularly helpful.

The ACEA Ax is for petrol service, and the Bx is for light diesel
service. A B2 spec is the 'lowest' class of oil they rate, and a B3 spec
oil meets that standard as well as additional extended drain
requirements so should be fine.

What's the engine it's going in to, and what viscosity are you thinking
of using? This is also fairly important.


--
EMB
 
On or around Sun, 13 Nov 2005 16:43:16 +0000 (UTC), "TonyB"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Hi guys
>If the manual says use an oil to specACEA B2:96, API CE or better,
>can I use API SJ and ACEA A3/B3?
>

yes.

although if it's a diesel it's the API C[] rating you should be looking at.
chances are an SJ is more than CE though, so to speak.

S for spark ignition, C for compression ignition, IIRC, and in general, the
further through the alphabet the better. SG was, for example, the point
where anti-sludging was added to the standard (again IIRC) and it's quite
tricky to get 20W50 grade oil that conforms to SG for to put in earlier V8s.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine... War is hell"
Gen. Sherman (1820-1891) Attr. words in Address at Michigan Military
Academy, 19 June 1879.
 

"EMB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> TonyB wrote:
> > Hi guys
> > If the manual says use an oil to specACEA B2:96, API CE or better,
> > can I use API SJ and ACEA A3/B3?
>
> The API Cx ratings are for diesel service, the Sx ratings are for petrol
> service. So the API data you have given us is not particularly helpful.
>
> The ACEA Ax is for petrol service, and the Bx is for light diesel
> service. A B2 spec is the 'lowest' class of oil they rate, and a B3 spec
> oil meets that standard as well as additional extended drain
> requirements so should be fine.
>
> What's the engine it's going in to, and what viscosity are you thinking
> of using? This is also fairly important.

Thanks, it sounds like it's OK. It's going in a 200 TDi and if the minimum
spec is ACEA B2:96 and I'm using ACEA B3 it should be alright. It's 10w40.

If it is, this means I can use Castrol GTX which is considerably less
expensive than the diesel Castrol. Now I'm going to get people screaming at
me that I can't use a "petrol" oil in a diesel engine, I bet.

TonyB


 
>
> >Hi guys
> >If the manual says use an oil to specACEA B2:96, API CE or better,
> >can I use API SJ and ACEA A3/B3?
> >
>
> yes.
>
> although if it's a diesel it's the API C[] rating you should be looking
at.
> chances are an SJ is more than CE though, so to speak.
>
> S for spark ignition, C for compression ignition, IIRC, and in general,
the
> further through the alphabet the better. SG was, for example, the point
> where anti-sludging was added to the standard (again IIRC) and it's quite
> tricky to get 20W50 grade oil that conforms to SG for to put in earlier
V8s.
> --
Thanks Austin. This could be saving a lot of people a lot of money. The GTX
was about 15 quid, the diesel version by Esso was 24 quid.

BTW for other home mechanics, I'm using a Pela oil changer which is very
good. Cost about 20 quid from Ebay and has paid for itself already.

TonyB

TonyB


 
TonyB wrote:

> Thanks, it sounds like it's OK. It's going in a 200 TDi and if the minimum
> spec is ACEA B2:96 and I'm using ACEA B3 it should be alright. It's 10w40.
>
> If it is, this means I can use Castrol GTX which is considerably less
> expensive than the diesel Castrol. Now I'm going to get people screaming at
> me that I can't use a "petrol" oil in a diesel engine, I bet.

I'd still use a diesel specific oil in this engine. It's a
high-revving, relatively high-compression, turbocharged diesel engine
with a relatively small oil capacity and as such is going to be fairly
hard on it's oil.

IMO it's a false economy to try and save a small amount of money at oil
change time to the potential detriment of engine wear - even one
turbocharger rebuild will cost more than your savings in 100,000 miles
of using the chaeper oil. I use Pennz Long-Life 15W/40 in similar
engines but if I were in the UK I'd be using 15W/40 Chevron-Texaco Delo
400 as I'm not aware of Pennz being available there. However any
equivalent oil from a reputable manufacturer should be fine.

IIRC there's an oil boffin lurking here somewhere who will have a more
knowledgeable opinion on this matter and I expect they will be along
shortly.

--
EMB
 
On or around Sun, 13 Nov 2005 20:48:22 +0000 (UTC), "TonyB"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>"EMB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> TonyB wrote:
>> > Hi guys
>> > If the manual says use an oil to specACEA B2:96, API CE or better,
>> > can I use API SJ and ACEA A3/B3?
>>
>> The API Cx ratings are for diesel service, the Sx ratings are for petrol
>> service. So the API data you have given us is not particularly helpful.
>>
>> The ACEA Ax is for petrol service, and the Bx is for light diesel
>> service. A B2 spec is the 'lowest' class of oil they rate, and a B3 spec
>> oil meets that standard as well as additional extended drain
>> requirements so should be fine.
>>
>> What's the engine it's going in to, and what viscosity are you thinking
>> of using? This is also fairly important.
>
>Thanks, it sounds like it's OK. It's going in a 200 TDi and if the minimum
>spec is ACEA B2:96 and I'm using ACEA B3 it should be alright. It's 10w40.
>
>If it is, this means I can use Castrol GTX which is considerably less
>expensive than the diesel Castrol. Now I'm going to get people screaming at
>me that I can't use a "petrol" oil in a diesel engine, I bet.

if it meets the specs, it's mutlipurpose oil, not specifically petrol or
diesel.

lately, mine have bene running on Q8's high-spec tractor oil, which was a
good price in the local agric merchant for 25l drums. Meets all sorts of
specs, plenty good enough for LR and van engines. It's a bit light
viscosity for the series III in summer, but I bet it'll be OK in winter.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\
>> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!
 

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Sun, 13 Nov 2005 20:48:22 +0000 (UTC), "TonyB"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>
>>"EMB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> TonyB wrote:
>>> > Hi guys
>>> > If the manual says use an oil to specACEA B2:96, API CE or better,
>>> > can I use API SJ and ACEA A3/B3?
>>>
>>> The API Cx ratings are for diesel service, the Sx ratings are for petrol
>>> service. So the API data you have given us is not particularly helpful.
>>>
>>> The ACEA Ax is for petrol service, and the Bx is for light diesel
>>> service. A B2 spec is the 'lowest' class of oil they rate, and a B3 spec
>>> oil meets that standard as well as additional extended drain
>>> requirements so should be fine.
>>>
>>> What's the engine it's going in to, and what viscosity are you thinking
>>> of using? This is also fairly important.
>>
>>Thanks, it sounds like it's OK. It's going in a 200 TDi and if the minimum
>>spec is ACEA B2:96 and I'm using ACEA B3 it should be alright. It's 10w40.
>>
>>If it is, this means I can use Castrol GTX which is considerably less
>>expensive than the diesel Castrol. Now I'm going to get people screaming
>>at
>>me that I can't use a "petrol" oil in a diesel engine, I bet.
>
> if it meets the specs, it's mutlipurpose oil, not specifically petrol or
> diesel.
>

AFAIK standard GTX is not a multifleet oil.

> lately, mine have bene running on Q8's high-spec tractor oil, which was a
> good price in the local agric merchant for 25l drums. Meets all sorts of
> specs, plenty good enough for LR and van engines.

If it meets ACEA E3 or mb228.3 or API CH4, which premium oils will do, then
it is ideal for even longer drain intervals than LR recommend, thus giving
added assurance for the careless or the extreme driver.



It's a bit light
> viscosity for the series III in summer, but I bet it'll be OK in winter.


If you are using a super universal tractor oil of 15w/30 or the better and
more expensive 10w/30 then, although it will be much better than GTX, it
will not be ideal for the 200tdi unless it meets at least E2 228.1 or CH4.

Huw


 

"TonyB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "EMB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> TonyB wrote:
>> > Hi guys
>> > If the manual says use an oil to specACEA B2:96, API CE or better,
>> > can I use API SJ and ACEA A3/B3?
>>
>> The API Cx ratings are for diesel service, the Sx ratings are for petrol
>> service. So the API data you have given us is not particularly helpful.
>>
>> The ACEA Ax is for petrol service, and the Bx is for light diesel
>> service. A B2 spec is the 'lowest' class of oil they rate, and a B3 spec
>> oil meets that standard as well as additional extended drain
>> requirements so should be fine.
>>
>> What's the engine it's going in to, and what viscosity are you thinking
>> of using? This is also fairly important.
>
> Thanks, it sounds like it's OK. It's going in a 200 TDi and if the minimum
> spec is ACEA B2:96 and I'm using ACEA B3 it should be alright. It's 10w40.
>
> If it is, this means I can use Castrol GTX which is considerably less
> expensive than the diesel Castrol. Now I'm going to get people screaming
> at
> me that I can't use a "petrol" oil in a diesel engine, I bet.
>

Yes you are. If you are running this engine on anything less than the old
CCMC D5 spec which is now obsolete then you will be compromising its
ultimate life. This spec was the first SHPD spec and its modern equivalent
is ACEA E2 or mb228.1 but there is absolutely no reason today for not using
the better
ACEA E3 specification oil. This can be substituted by the approximately
equal API CH4 or mb228.3 specs.
Land Rover are often guilty of specifying lesser oils than they should IMHO
although if you read the instruction book for both VM and 200tdi engines of
the time, I do believe it mentions that CCMC D5 should be used but it is not
as clear as it should be about explaining that this is as a minimum. That
oils meeting the specifications that I quote above will also meet and exceed
the lesser specifications [you mention] for light vehicle engines also
mentioned in the book should be taken as given.

Huw



 

"TonyB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
>> >Hi guys
>> >If the manual says use an oil to specACEA B2:96, API CE or better,
>> >can I use API SJ and ACEA A3/B3?
>> >
>>
>> yes.
>>
>> although if it's a diesel it's the API C[] rating you should be looking
> at.
>> chances are an SJ is more than CE though, so to speak.
>>
>> S for spark ignition, C for compression ignition, IIRC, and in general,
> the
>> further through the alphabet the better. SG was, for example, the point
>> where anti-sludging was added to the standard (again IIRC) and it's quite
>> tricky to get 20W50 grade oil that conforms to SG for to put in earlier
> V8s.
>> --
> Thanks Austin. This could be saving a lot of people a lot of money. The
> GTX
> was about 15 quid, the diesel version by Esso was 24 quid.
>
> BTW for other home mechanics, I'm using a Pela oil changer which is very
> good. Cost about 20 quid from Ebay and has paid for itself already.
>

The correct oil for this engine should cost no more than £38+VAT for 25
litres at a motor factor, truck or agricultural supplier or dealer.

Huw


 
On or around Sun, 13 Nov 2005 22:29:55 -0000, "Huw"
<hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:

>
>If you are using a super universal tractor oil of 15w/30 or the better and
>more expensive 10w/30 then, although it will be much better than GTX, it
>will not be ideal for the 200tdi unless it meets at least E2 228.1 or CH4.

I suspect this one is 15W40, in fact - not got the drum any more, it was
empty - I'm about to buy some more. I believe it does though meet the above
specs; I'd not have bought it otherwise, since I don't believe in crappy
cheap oil if I can avoid it.

ooops. time to go and defrost the motors.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero" (sieze today, and put
as little trust as you can in tomorrow) Horace (65 - 8 BC) Odes, I.xi.8
 
On or around Sun, 13 Nov 2005 22:34:17 -0000, "Huw"
<hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:

>The correct oil for this engine should cost no more than £38+VAT for 25
>litres at a motor factor, truck or agricultural supplier or dealer.

I'll let you know how much mine is, when I get a new drum. less than that
last time.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero" (sieze today, and put
as little trust as you can in tomorrow) Horace (65 - 8 BC) Odes, I.xi.8
 

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Sun, 13 Nov 2005 22:29:55 -0000, "Huw"
> <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>
>>If you are using a super universal tractor oil of 15w/30 or the better
>>and
>>more expensive 10w/30 then, although it will be much better than GTX, it
>>will not be ideal for the 200tdi unless it meets at least E2 228.1 or CH4.
>
> I suspect this one is 15W40, in fact - not got the drum any more, it was
> empty - I'm about to buy some more. I believe it does though meet the
> above
> specs; I'd not have bought it otherwise, since I don't believe in crappy
> cheap oil if I can avoid it.
>
> ooops. time to go and defrost the motors.

Easy to find in your area is Morris Ring Free 15w/40. This is well up to
spec.

Huw


 
EMB wrote:

> TonyB wrote:
>> Hi guys
>> If the manual says use an oil to specACEA B2:96, API CE or better,
>> can I use API SJ and ACEA A3/B3?
>
> The API Cx ratings are for diesel service, the Sx ratings are for petrol
> service. So the API data you have given us is not particularly helpful.
>
> The ACEA Ax is for petrol service, and the Bx is for light diesel
> service. A B2 spec is the 'lowest' class of oil they rate, and a B3 spec
> oil meets that standard as well as additional extended drain
> requirements so should be fine.

So when the 2000 owner manual for a TD5 says ACEA A1.98 & B1.98, it's even
worse!?

>
> What's the engine it's going in to, and what viscosity are you thinking
> of using? This is also fairly important.
>
>

That same owner manual says 5W30 or (on the line below) 5W40 or 5W50. This
is to run in the UK. Which one should I use?

Cheers,

Fred

 
Fred Labrosse wrote:
> EMB wrote:

>>The ACEA Ax is for petrol service, and the Bx is for light diesel
>>service. A B2 spec is the 'lowest' class of oil they rate, and a B3 spec
>>oil meets that standard as well as additional extended drain
>>requirements so should be fine.
>
>
> So when the 2000 owner manual for a TD5 says ACEA A1.98 & B1.98, it's even
> worse!?

No, in typical the 'standards' fashion of making things as illogical as
possible the A1/B1 spec oils are effectively a higher specification than
the A3/B3 ones. The A1/B1 spec is for an energy saving, catalyser
friendly oil for low friction engines.


> That same owner manual says 5W30 or (on the line below) 5W40 or 5W50. This
> is to run in the UK. Which one should I use?

It prolly doesn't matter, but you might get fractionally better fuel
economy with the 5W30.


--
EMB
 
On or around Wed, 16 Nov 2005 07:23:55 +1300, EMB <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>Fred Labrosse wrote:
>> EMB wrote:
>
>>>The ACEA Ax is for petrol service, and the Bx is for light diesel
>>>service. A B2 spec is the 'lowest' class of oil they rate, and a B3 spec
>>>oil meets that standard as well as additional extended drain
>>>requirements so should be fine.
>>
>>
>> So when the 2000 owner manual for a TD5 says ACEA A1.98 & B1.98, it's even
>> worse!?
>
>No, in typical the 'standards' fashion of making things as illogical as
>possible the A1/B1 spec oils are effectively a higher specification than
>the A3/B3 ones. The A1/B1 spec is for an energy saving, catalyser
>friendly oil for low friction engines.

there's a hint in the dates. A2.96, A1.98... I forget the date for A3.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Satisfying: Satisfy your inner child by eating ten tubes of Smarties
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 
Austin Shackles wrote:
> On or around Wed, 16 Nov 2005 07:23:55 +1300, EMB <[email protected]>
> enlightened us thusly:
>
>
>>Fred Labrosse wrote:
>>
>>>EMB wrote:
>>
>>>>The ACEA Ax is for petrol service, and the Bx is for light diesel
>>>>service. A B2 spec is the 'lowest' class of oil they rate, and a B3 spec
>>>>oil meets that standard as well as additional extended drain
>>>>requirements so should be fine.
>>>
>>>
>>>So when the 2000 owner manual for a TD5 says ACEA A1.98 & B1.98, it's even
>>>worse!?
>>
>>No, in typical the 'standards' fashion of making things as illogical as
>>possible the A1/B1 spec oils are effectively a higher specification than
>>the A3/B3 ones. The A1/B1 spec is for an energy saving, catalyser
>>friendly oil for low friction engines.
>
>
> there's a hint in the dates. A2.96, A1.98... I forget the date for A3.

Current A1 spec is A1.02, but they were numbered this way as the "fuel
efficient" spec was AFAIK the first one to be defined.

--
EMB
 
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