P38A Oh what have I done...

Bern768 said:

did you adjust the top part of the pump at all ?

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Yip.

plumbfisher said:

No - certainly not intentionally.

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Yip..

plumbfisher said:

Slackened FIP and tap, tapped until it sounded better. (Yes, last tap back towards engine

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yip...

okay guv fair cop

but that was the whole pump not just the top part (?)

Timing position is critical my mate.
For any adjustments in future, always mark a joining faces to give you a reference to go back to.

I didn't take the pump to bits, it's all as is was. I understand about marking to get the pump back together if the top part has been taken off...

Strange thing tho' , which I would appreciate some help understanding.
I set the static timing with dial guage and flywheel pin etc. It started okay but Nanocom showed modulation at 80+%.
So when I adjust it (tap, tap) the modulation goes from too high (greater than 50%) to far too low (7%) with just a light tap. It seems very tricky to get it to stabilize at around 50%.
I am also concerned to get the injection set point and injection actual to within .5 which only seems to be when modulation is at around 80%
Can you help please?

What mileage you at these days? how stretched are your chains?
FIP should be angled roughly like this -



Either something was off for example, timing pin hole you use is quite close to another.
Forgot to preload etc

There is only so many times you can pull the slack out of the chains til it will eventually be too far out of range. Chains don’t tend to snap like belts but they do stretch and fatigue as do the sprockets and tensioners.
If you hang old chains next to new you will see the difference in length. If you are way out your FIP should be angled weirdly.
If you fitted new sprockets/chains the setting is 0.95mm but 0.90 when run in. This is why I use a dti even though I don’t own a complete set of spanners.

RangeRoller dt said:

What mileage you at these days? how stretched are your chains?
FIP should be angled roughly like this -

View attachment 264156

Either something was off for example, timing pin hole you use is quite close to another.
Forgot to preload etc

There is only so many times you can pull the slack out of the chains til it will eventually be too far out of range. Chains don’t tend to snap like belts but they do stretch and fatigue as do the sprockets and tensioners.
If you hang old chains next to new you will see the difference in length. If you are way out your FIP should be angled weirdly.
If you fitted new sprockets/chains the setting is 0.95mm but 0.90 when run in. This is why I use a dti even though I don’t own a complete set of spanners.

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If you hold the chain out horizontal you will see by the droop how stretched it is,over to you @Rubberknees ,a parting gift for a smutty response.The Enemy said we must leave early because of the delays at security,there was only a handful of people getting through FFS

The old bus is well run in at 246K, so I guess the chains are a bit stretched by now !
I've read about that - that there are two holes. How come? and isn't that bloody typical! the pin fits into both?
I've done it once before when it started to need a bit of cranking to start when hot.
It's a bit hard to tell from the pic, but i think my pump is closer to the block than that...

plumbfisher said:

The old bus is well run in at 246K, so I guess the chains are a bit stretched by now !
I've read about that - that there are two holes. How come? and isn't that bloody typical! the pin fits into both?
I've done it once before when it started to need a bit of cranking to start when hot.
It's a bit hard to tell from the pic, but i think my pump is closer to the block than that...

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Have a look in the oil filler hole and both cam lobes for number 1 should be horizontal if it's at TDC

I think RAVE says vertical, insert dial guage, preload, then rotate engine 'till pin locates? Is that when lobes are horizontal?

Are there two holes that the pin will fit?

plumbfisher said:

I think RAVE says vertical, insert dial guage, preload, then rotate engine 'till pin locates? Is that when lobes are horizontal?

Are there two holes that the pin will fit?

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I'm not sure mate I'm in the airport and working from memory which isn't to reliable when I did mine after changing the chains and sprockets I had everything stripped off and there is a TDC pointer in the timing case which I lined up with the mark on the pulley then the pin slid in after cleaning the hole in the flywheel with a copper jag from my pistol cleaning kit,when we were allowed to own one or two.

Yes
90* btdc (cam lobe vertical) on cylinder 1 through oil cap. then its clockwise rotation ONLY til it slips in the next hole <insert appropriate remark>. So cam lobe should be flat. Should be right one then
Think other one is like 20* off or something don’t remember exactly but people do mix them up on occasion.
0.90 lift.

Bon voyage Alan

Thanks Alan,
I'll have to go and have another look at it tomorrow.

You off for the summer?

You didn’t take the pump out of the vehicle did you?

Nooo! I wouldn't dare! that would be pushing my luck.
or as they say these days 'beyond my skillset'

plumbfisher said:

Nooo! i wouldn't dare!

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Okiley dokiley then

plumbfisher said:

Thanks Alan,
I'll have to go and have another look at it tomorrow.

You off for the summer?

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Just for a couple of weeks,too much happening at home

plumbfisher said:

I didn't take the pump to bits, it's all as is was. I understand about marking to get the pump back together if the top part has been taken off...

Strange thing tho' , which I would appreciate some help understanding.
I set the static timing with dial guage and flywheel pin etc. It started okay but Nanocom showed modulation at 80+%.
So when I adjust it (tap, tap) the modulation goes from too high (greater than 50%) to far too low (7%) with just a light tap. It seems very tricky to get it to stabilize at around 50%.
I am also concerned to get the injection set point and injection actual to within .5 which only seems to be when modulation is at around 80%
Can you help please?

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Getting the modulation correct with the dial gauge is very difficult.
Modulation is temperature dependent, I posted charts showing the relation between engine temperature and modulation a while ago.
With the modulation set to 50% at an engine temperature of 95C it varies at lot as the engine warms up.
I have a method of setting with a steel rule,
1/08/2020 Start time 14:30 Hrs
Project car 147K miles First registered 21/06/1999.

EDC Hardware version:- 02 81 00 16 77:
Software version:- 10 37 35 67 58
Firmware revision:- 22 46 921 3R
Test conditions:- Outside air temperature 21C. Fans disabled,
Aircon switched off.
Idle speed 750 rpm
Fuel temp. Water temp. Modulation. Time. Gauge needle position

7.36 25.04 21.45 14:32 Blue
8.72 30.48 20.76 14:33 Blue
10.76 40.00 19.50 14:34 Blue
13.48 50.20 17.16 14:36 Blue
16.88 60.40 15.21 14:38 Blue
21.64 71.28 12.48 14:40 Blue
27.08 80.80 09.00 14:45 Between Blue & white
29.1 85.56 09.36 14:48 > Mid point
35.92 90.32 40.56 14:55 Mid point
41.36 95.08 54.99 15:03 Mid point

Not taken up to 100C, takes too long with the oversize all metal RAD but I did go to 100C the first time I did this test.

Dash gauge at mid point from just over 85C

Test end time 15:15hrs

Fuel temperature eventually reached 43.4 with viscous fan & cowl in place.

The figure during warm up vary from car to car, the only important figure is at 95C engine temperature.
Adjustment is quicker with the viscous fan removed.
Sorry, LZ removes the spacing on the figures

tomcat59alan said:

Just for a couple of weeks,too much happening at home

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but then you will return, refreshed an full of enthusiasm!
Have a good time

plumbfisher said:

I think RAVE says vertical, insert dial guage, preload, then rotate engine 'till pin locates? Is that when lobes are horizontal?

Are there two holes that the pin will fit?

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Yes

Datatek said:

Getting the modulation correct with the dial gauge is very difficult.

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So is it a case of either dial guage or modulation? Or set with dial guage and then adjust for modulation?
Can you please tell me about injection set point/actual?