northern Ireland series 3 109 "dougal"

anyone got any pictures of these? Or anyone served with them and can offer any help with building a replica?

if you mean the british army series 3 109 VPK's (armoured land rovers) the best place to have a look is on the Historic Military vehicles Forum Welcome to HMVF - Historic Military Vehicles Forum

Good evening,
you mean Tangi or Hotspur? Have you used google for RUC (Royal Ulster Const.) Land Rovers? I've seen one for sale not long ago...
I have an ex-Scotland Yard one, but it was used in Greater London for lighting on demonstrations and such as I've been told (some pushing unfriendly people also). Used to have lots of lights (have no details on this) and a 110V-Generator (long gone). Furthermore it still has light guards and a steel grille (this IS special). Oh, and the badge that it was delivered to the Scotland Yard.
Used to be painted in white with orange rear (original?).
I can put on some pictures if you're interested.

Do you mean the armoured or only "more rugged" cars?
Both were based on civil 3-door series 3 109s. So, no mil spec chassis or conservation.

Thanks for replies, the vehicle I'm interested in is a stripped down (no roof, doors or windscreen) 109, series three, kitted out similar to a pink panther type thing, but camo net and scrim galore, so much so that when they drive along with all the dangly bits they look like dougal off the magic roundabout, hence the name.
I know they were modified by each individual unit and so were all slightly different, but was after some info on what kindof clobber they were packing. One chap I've spoken to that served out there says he saw some once but that was it never saw them again, and they had .30 on ns bulkhead and .50 in the back

was after some help/pictures to go from if possible, I've never seen one in the flesh myself

do you mean one of these?
i dont think they had one like panther's because of the lack of cover from a petrol bomb attack

crazyjase said:

Thanks for replies, the vehicle I'm interested in is a stripped down (no roof, doors or windscreen)(have they been practicing being live targets in NI with them?) 109, series three, kitted out similar to a pink panther type thing, but camo net(for NI? Urban fight? "Hey, look, I'm a bush not a house" is less believeable than "Hey look, I'm a dustbin") and scrim galore, so much so that when they drive along with all the dangly bits they look like dougal off the magic roundabout, hence the name.
I know they were modified by each individual unit and so were all slightly different, but was after some info on what kindof clobber they were packing. One chap I've spoken to that served out there says he saw some once but that was it never saw them again, and they had .30 on ns bulkhead and .50 in the back(Then they were armoured for sure, propably you mean somethink like what irish-landy put a picture of on?)

was after some help/pictures to go from if possible, I've never seen one in the flesh myself

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One like the above I've seen on sale lately, but I think without the bulletproof windscreen

Open topped or stripped down Land Rovers were used in Northern Ireland in the early years of the troubles. These were quickly adapted by the soldiers themselves to provide limited protection against bricks etc.

in the late 70's purpose built add-on "makralon" armour was produced that was bolted onto the existing body work of the Land Rovers. Many series Light weights were converted and a large number of series 2 109's.

The RUC used purpose built armoured Land Rovers built by Short Brothers based in Belfast. They were known as Shorland armoured cars and came in various versions. The RUC then began to have purpose built armoured Land Rovers produced in-house by their own workshops. The first one was called the Hotspur because of the name of the steel armour used - based on the series 3 109 chassis. They then had the Simba armoured Land Rover based on the 110 V8 chassis, but this was very slow to be produced. The RUC then began producing the Hotspur 110 V8 to replace the 109's in the late 80's. It is still the same one in use today, although most of the V8's have been upgraded to 300tdi's.

The Army began replacing the armoured 109's in the late 80's with a purpose built armoured 110 V8. It was built by Glover Webb and had a steel armoured body, which was then enhanced a few years later by extra roof and side armour. The final Armoured land rover used by the Army in NI was the Snatch 110 V8. This was a composite armoured body on a heavy duty chassis made by Courtaulds, now known as NP aerospace. The Snatch was upgraded in 2005/2006 to 300tdi power plants and shipped to Iraq.

I Know its a long (probably boring) post here, but I have a keen interest in Land Rovers used in Northern Ireland as I used to serve there and drove a V8 Snatch on a regular basis!

But was Markolon resistant enough? I don't think it has a fire rating. I know they use riot shields made of makrolon, but other than it not splitting when breaking and being light, it doesn't protect enough for NI does it?
How was your experience with the Makrolon shields? You know of any encountered problems (eg I imagine that the engine vibration might become a problem if it's just bolt through fixtures)? How would it withstand fire? (I suppose there was no version shielding from gunfire...)

From Reading the post by landy commander it seems to be quite a clear progression/evolution from no armour to DIY armour to markolon, then on to full on purpose built stuff.
thanks very much for your help.

NI was not an excusively urban combat situation, and whilst I am no expert its clear that situations develop and change over time. I know that the uniform they wore at the beginning was quickly changed as the methods used against the lads changed, so makes sense that the vehicles they deployed would evolve in a similar way, unfortunately
I understand why one would assume that a stripped down recce type landrover would have no place in NI but no-one can claim to know everything and everyone should be open to learning about things from people that were actually there, not watching it on the news at home

philvy said:

But was Markolon resistant enough? I don't think it has a fire rating. I know they use riot shields made of makrolon, but other than it not splitting when breaking and being light, it doesn't protect enough for NI does it?
How was your experience with the Makrolon shields? You know of any encountered problems (eg I imagine that the engine vibration might become a problem if it's just bolt through fixtures)? How would it withstand fire? (I suppose there was no version shielding from gunfire...)

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I can't really offer much knowledge on the Series 3 109 VPK (Makralon) versions as they were used many years before my service in Northern Ireland. Having done a little research online, it seems that the early Vehicle Protection kits were indeed bolt on and were Makralon/GRP.

I only ever had experience of the Snatch MK 1 V8 110 and Mk2 300Tdi armoured land Rovers. They were a purpose built armoured vehicle, which consisted of a Kevlar/GRP moulded body with armoured glass and riot screens fitted. The Mk 2 300Tdi versions also had a remotely controlled spot light fitted to the roof above the drivers cab and the Confidential Freephone number was not present on the sides of the Mk 2 versions.

just remember when finished they are very top heavy... i remember seeing 2 on their sides on the crumlin road in belfast. 2 soldiers died as a result. they toppled over trying to go round a corner at speed