non start at ignition...

Okay, here's the history. Go with me. I'll be clear as I can (and congrats to Alex Crossley who guessed I'd post - kudos and point for life, chap).

Alarm goes off in wee small hours of the morning. a few days ago. Won't unlock remotely. Possibly battery drain and getting to the point where it sets of the alarm. Maybe it's a switch under the bonnet - like my old BMW 7 series. Simply disconnect as damp and vibration can make the connection dodgy and set off alarm at unsociable hours - but I can't find a switch.
I unlock manually and I take out battery and recharge overnight to give it some more juice.
refit and works fine.
but curious as to the cause...

So reading on the forums I see the small fan at the back of the HEVAC unit can still spin long after ignition out. Over time this will drain the battery and/or set alarm off. it's the little fan that blows air over the sensor to tell the car what the temp of the cab is. I get the need for that. A final stage resistor perhaps is recommended as the thing to change, but no I say (and why did they put it in the footwell under the pedals?)

I gently pull out HEVAC unit from dash, find one of the power leads feeding the unit (5v or 12v probably) and after pulling it in and out and listening out for the fan and see it move I decde that's the one to install a toggle switch.
coffee. biscuit. soldering iron. 20mins.
I can now hear the unit turn on and off with the switch and with key out of ignition - righteous with my soldering and filing endeavours, I have a toggle switch in the drivers footwell and a running car. boss.

I gently push the unit back into place and then... nothing. It runs, but I've lost power to the unit all of a sudden. It drives with fans on full and heat on full - an uncomfortable default in hot weather. I drive to a local overland specialist and after spending 20mins with a grumpy Czeck, he prints off a wiring diagram. I see fuse 12 could be blown.

Car runs at 7pm Friday night on trip to drop off wife in town (that's just a bit of detail to make the story more human).

All I need to do is to check fuse 12 and replace (if needed) and put HEVAC gently into place fully and it's trouble free once again. I get home, turn it all off. see that fuse 12 is blown (the cause perhaps of no power to HEVAC) and replace the fuse. I gently push unit back into place (but don't test the anything at the time) and go to bed.

Sat 00:10 wife comes home (you were all wonderign)
Sat morning 05:00 alarm goes off again.

okay I'm up now...
coffee.
slippers (well flip flops)
Total loss of ignition. Lights on in cab, hazards, and side lights. but no dash lights, cluster, instrument panel, horn, radio lights, wipers. nothing. and turning the key all the way won't start or even turn. Nothing.
I spend a couple of hours doing all sorts of key fob finger holding, key turning in and out of ignition combination but nothing.
I go through EVERY fuse, one by one taking them out and testing with a mulitmeter.
I can hear the HEVAC unit 'on' when I toggle switch in on position and off when in 'off' position.


I call AA.
the first responder is a third party chap who looks around the car, asks me if I do short journeys and then types (and I'm not making this up) "not starting Range Rover' in the google browser in his phone. he is sent on his way.
I call for an electrical specialist from the AA.
He arrives whistling in 20mins in a shiny yellow van - good.
He drains residual power from the car by shorting the battery leads with a bulb.
He takes readings in places I didn't know existed.
He checks power to fuse box.
He can get the car to turn by creating a bi pass across fuse 7 and 45&46 but it wont fire.
He suspects its an ECU ignition fault at the key end or at the fuse box end or somewhere in that ignition sequence...
He finds a error code of 167 in his diagnostic tool. I look this up in a forum and it's a heater fault.

So,
I've an ECU that is only reporting a heater fault - probably my genius toggle switch idea
but nothing physical (like a fuse or a busted wire) in the car to prevent the ignition working.
possible ECU but no way of knowing what or how.
I don't believe a heater causes this chaos and refuse to spend £2k on a dealer to fix it when I spent £2.00 on a bag of 5 toggle switches...
the car won't start, turn or move.
stuck stood still.

help please.
I was meant to dive the family on holiday on Weds in it. and OF COURSE ITS BANK HOLIDAY WEEKEND for extra stress...

Andy

Massive essay on what's happening but no indication of vehicle! IT MATTERS MUCH!
If it's a thor and the battery has been flat or disconnected then it will be immobilised and won't turn over. You'll need to enter the eka code. Doesn't always work on the drivers door lock if one of the switches is dead.
Needs proper diag on it.

Sorry Wazzarjnr. Thought the profile came up in my feed. My mistake.

2002. L322. 4.4v8 petrol.

Of course, no manual. So is it drive to Land Rover dealer with V5 and key fobs and ask on bended knee?

I get the whole key in door thing left right like a hotel safe box. Is there an emergency one like three turns to the left, three to the right and repeat?

Your answer implied a software program behaviour rather than a major disruption. After all. It was running the night before so I figure all this comes down to taking out the battery and erasing something...

I've just gone outside and had a fiddle.

Resting the key fob on the top of the ignition, I can hear the steering wheel click in. Makes me think the alarm and systems knows it's me.

And I'm simply immobilised out.

I've got a six digit code on the underside of both key fobs. The same number.

Can I use this some how in the lock and turn it in that sort of sequence?

Andy Reid said:

Sorry Wazzarjnr. Thought the profile came up in my feed. My mistake.

2002. L322. 4.4v8 petrol.

Of course, no manual. So is it drive to Land Rover dealer with V5 and key fobs and ask on bended knee?

I get the whole key in door thing left right like a hotel safe box. Is there an emergency one like three turns to the left, three to the right and repeat?

Your answer implied a software program behaviour rather than a major disruption. After all. It was running the night before so I figure all this comes down to taking out the battery and erasing something...

Click to expand...

OK, if I go to your profile, I can see the l322 but it's always better to start a new thread with your model, especially when you're new as people don't want to search it out. There is also a drop down where you can select P38/L322 etc etc in the header. Also makes it easier for future people to search our their fault rather than posting things that have been asked a million times. Don't worry, you're not the first to make this mistake and you sure as hell won't be the last.
Now then, onto your issue. I'm not very up to speed on the L322 as I have a P38. It does sound very much like you are immobilised but I'm not sure what that entails on yours.
If you don't have the handbook then I would suggest you download the RAVE workshop manual. I think there is a link in the technical archive.
It will tell you procedures for resetting things I think but you might well need diag which is either,
1:-cough up and buy one (not cheap but almost essential if you're gonna keep the car a while)
2:-stealers, again not cheap and YMMV
3:-Hope and pray someone in here has the diag and is close to you and prepared to help out.
@Saint.V8 probably knows more than most about the L322 on here, now I've tagged him, he hopefully will point out I'm talking nonsense!!
@Rick-the-Pick and @martynv8 both do BECM and other electronics work and are very useful people to know although again, no idea where they are on L322 stuff.
I'm sure you will get it sorted, but, seriously, consider getting diag for it or it will eat you out of house and home!
Hope that helps a bit.
Cheers

Thanks for all the advice there - and apologies for the admin mistake.

My quest begins...

convinced this is an immobilising issue and nothing more.
looking forward to posting the solution/answer when it arrives.

Andy Reid said:

Thanks for all the advice there - and apologies for the admin mistake.

My quest begins...

convinced this is an immobilising issue and nothing more.
looking forward to posting the solution/answer when it arrives.

Click to expand...

No problem.
Immobilisation would be my guess but the people I mentioned will know better than me how security works on yours.
Hopefully they'll get you sorted out.

The clicking when the key gets close to the ignition barrel indicates the immobiliser is indeed registering the correct key and allowing the steering lock to disengage and allow the engine to start.

On the L322 there is no EKA (Emergency Key Access) code that can be used (the turning of the key in the door lock to a prescribed set of numbers etc).

What condition is the battery in? does it have and hold a good charge? Range Rover - the L322 in particular - love a good strong battery, even a drop of half a volt can cause the car havoc!

The little fan continuing to run is normal - well I say normal, it does run on after ignition off, but should turn off after a few minutes.

There is a bonnet switch, just keep looking it is on the back of the engine bay!! This has been known to set the alarm off at stupid o'clock in the morning.

The L322 does suffer from dodgy ignition switch contacts....they tend to go south and only allow less than 9V through which isn't enough for the ECU's to power up and do stuff.....maybe whipping this out and checking could be done. As I say, the fact the steering column lock disengages means there is nothing wrong with the immobiliser or alarm system.

Hello Saint.

Thanks for this. Knowing the faint clicking is immobiliser okay is reassuring.

And that if I root around in the engine bay I'll find the bonnet sensor.

I left early for work today up and down the country for meetings. Sod's law I read this on a train when I could have left the battery in charge but no matter. It's about half I think so I'll connect tonight and leave over night. Day off tomorrow so can approach her mid morning for a fiddle.

Is there anything I can do with key fobs? Now youve eliminated the EKA route I wonder?

I saw holding unlock down and pressing lock three times on a youtube film 'tells' the car this is the right key...

Saint.V8 said:

The clicking when the key gets close to the ignition barrel indicates the immobiliser is indeed registering the correct key and allowing the steering lock to disengage and allow the engine to start.

On the L322 there is no EKA (Emergency Key Access) code that can be used (the turning of the key in the door lock to a prescribed set of numbers etc).

What condition is the battery in? does it have and hold a good charge? Range Rover - the L322 in particular - love a good strong battery, even a drop of half a volt can cause the car havoc!

The little fan continuing to run is normal - well I say normal, it does run on after ignition off, but should turn off after a few minutes.

There is a bonnet switch, just keep looking it is on the back of the engine bay!! This has been known to set the alarm off at stupid o'clock in the morning.

The L322 does suffer from dodgy ignition switch contacts....they tend to go south and only allow less than 9V through which isn't enough for the ECU's to power up and do stuff.....maybe whipping this out and checking could be done. As I say, the fact the steering column lock disengages means there is nothing wrong with the immobiliser or alarm system.

Click to expand...

Told you he would tell me I was talking nonsense!

Right. Back from the commute.

Battery off and charging. Looks a third full. So I appreciate that the obvious may have been overlooked as I searched for more elusive errors. I'll check back in the morning and if it's still looking poor, I'm 10mins drive away from a Halfords.

Located the bonnet sensor. Top left as you face the engine, back of bay on suspension strut. Ta.

Fresh batteries in fobs - it all helps.

Now. We wait.

If you end up with a new battery get the biggest ah and cca you can get in there, is yours a vogue as they need a bigger battery than most people will say is the right one.

Also, there's been some pretty poor reports of halfrauds batteries on here so might be better to get one from your friendly local motor factors.
I order a lot of my spares from eurocarparts and they are pretty good. Normally have a branch pretty close and a lot of the trade use them.

Cool. there's a few garages between here and there on the drive so I shall take that council and invest in a whopper...
needle hasn't moved much since connecting up 2hours ago, but it's a long night and a big battery...

I have a battery drop tester will tell you how healthy your battery is if needed your not far from me.

brianp38dse said:

I have a battery drop tester will tell you how healthy your battery is if needed your not far from me.

Click to expand...

Thanks, Brian. A kind offer; very generous... If I get it started, I could drive over .
I'll let you know.

brianp38dse said:

If you end up with a new battery get the biggest ah and cca you can get in there, is yours a vogue as they need a bigger battery than most people will say is the right one.

Click to expand...

Platinum 642X looks like it might do the business!

Okay.

Time to close the loop on this.
Battery charged, it's probably old, but all seems okay.
I rang around and after x3 calls I found http://www.nk4wd.co.uk/ who were only a few miles up the way.
I got the AA to take me there and 24hours later and a few hours of work, the problem was solved.

Turns out to be (co-incidentally) to be Fuel pump relay switched but not transferring voltage to fuel pump.
fuse 15 (25A) was fitted in the wrong fuse position.
a combination of a missing fuse in the rear of the vehicle and the right fuse in the wrong place in the glove box.
all of which I knew nothing about so kudos to clever trouble shooting.

Works perfectly.
AND my toggle switch turns off the HEVAC okay - although the switched relay may have been the cause of the drain - no matter.

neither of my key fobs now lock the car remotely and I have to manually reach around to open the rear doors - so any help there warmly received

The guys at Nick Kerner 4WD are awesome.

hope helps.

Andy

Sounds like the keys want re syncing