Noisy clutch

Hello, looking for any help/advice.

The clutch on my Series 3 88" 2.25 petrol has become quite noisy....I'm presuming it's the clutch and not the gears. It has become gradually worse. When stood ticking over it now rattles quite badly. This noise disappears when I put my foot on the clutch. It is also present when travelling in gear.

Events leading up to this (which I think might be relevant):

• I drained both the gear box and transfer box of oil. I did find a few bits and bobs (3 teeth and two flat, thin pieces of metal (1.2 x 2cm and 1.2 x 2.5cm)?)
• I re-filled the oil from the inspection panels at the top until oil came out the filler holes (that's alright isn't it?). The only thing is one compartment (main gearbox) took 5 litres, although the specifications say oil capacity is 1.5 litres!
• The oil started to leak from where the prop shaft enters the gearbox...maybe because it was overfilled?

Can anyone suggest what this might be or what I need to do to pin-point the problem. Any help or advice would be very much appreciated.

5 litres until it came out of the level hole? Wonder where it's going.

When you "where the prop enters the gear box" , what you on about? Front or rear prop?
That much oil is either going into the t/box or bell housing. If its not all over the floor then I guess t/box so your mainshaft seal is gone and if it's suddenly noisy then probably a bearing/shaft/gear as well.

Doh- just read your post properly. Teeth in the oil = bad. Even if you take off the rear cover and find the mainshaft nut loose , something is broken in the box.
Either buy a used one, buy a recon or rebuild. If you carry on driving it will expire messily and ruin what good parts maybe left in it.


(seem tobe lots of gearbox threads recently, have they all reached the end of their life simultaneously?)


Edit: and your clutch sounds knackered as well!

Sounds like a release bearing to me, could be seized up.

bacon1991 said:

Sounds like a release bearing to me, could be seized up.

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S3 bearing when it seizes doesn't get noisy, it melts the plastic carrier and you lose the use of the clutch pedal

it really is a crap design because very rarely do you get any warning of trouble with it

clutch plates can rattle as the shudder springs in them can compress and take a "set" allowing them to rattle in thier frame, to be honest i don't think it is going to be that problem though due to you saying that the rattle is still present whilst travelling along in gear

being as you've had a few bits of metal fall out of the bung when you drained the oil i'll guess it's time to strip and rebuild the gearbox, i've got and had noisy gearboxes but at present my 2a box is nice and quiet

bacon1991 said:

Sounds like a release bearing to me, could be seized up.

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or on its way out, having said that i got 5 years and 60 thousand miles out of a disco with a noisy clutch release bearing

im no expert on landrovers but i am a mechanic and work for nissan. sounds to me like release bearing

SpringDon said:

When you "where the prop enters the gear box" , what you on about? Front or rear prop?

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It was leaking from where the front prop enters the.....output shaft housing (I think).

Just to pick up on the metal bits....

The flat metal bits are most likely synchro springs, which have broken.
When they broke, they probably fell into the gears, breaking a couple of teeth on the way.

Sounds like gearbox has had a lucky escape and not broken anything expensive.
It is however time it was repaired/rebuilt.

Noise wise, I'd be going with advice above, although I suppose it could be components rattling in the gearbox whilst idleing.

Mark

Wow, thank-you for all your replies. I was waiting for an email notification and so had presumed no-one had replied! I don't want you to think I'm ungrateful for all your help!

From another inspection underneath today the vibrations feel most prominent on the transmission brake.

From your comments I think I've resigned myself to having to take the gearbox out (whether the problem is the gearbox or clutch right?). ...or do I need to take the engine out?

IS it possible to remove the gearbox without an engine crane? Could two people lift it? Any feel for prices for recon, second hand and new (including postage?)

Would it be worth removing the rear cover (is this the plate on the transfer box on the passenger side of the trasmission brake?) and having a look before rushing (?) into removing the whole gearbox?

Gearbox can be lifted by two people, but is quite heavy so support of a crane/block and tackle or similar helps. Rachet straps on a pole would do same job.

You should be able to pick up a usable s3 box for about £50, recon £300.
Also try Ashcroft for Recon's

Mark

there is a slight possibility that the rear output shaft nut has come loose allowing your trans' brake to flap about a little

a normal indicator of this is the speedo not working correctly and the needle wavering badly

the castellated nut behind the rear cover "could" be loose as well, this can allow the shaft to flop about and can allow your gearbox to lock up solid (i've had it happen) so it might be worth a quick check in there

i still think you're in for a bigger job due to the bits of metal you've had fall out

yes gearboxes can be lifted out by two people, just watch how you both grab it and take your time as there's nowt much worse than a popped back and gearboxes are a clumsy balance, i always use a hoist now as my back is already stuffed

NiteMare said:

there is a slight possibility that the rear output shaft nut has come loose allowing your trans' brake to flap about a little

a normal indicator of this is the speedo not working correctly and the needle wavering badly

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Ahh that's interesting Nitemare, my speedo needle has always done that.

I also get some "kangerooing" when reversing, could this be related to the same loose shaft nut.

I presume to tighten, I just need to disconnect the prop and tighten the nut on the drive flange.

Mark

i've no real idea/thoughts as to why you "kangaroo" in reverse so can't comment, sorry

yes, to hopefully fix your needle wavering all you should need to do is drop the prop from the gearbox end (tie it up out the way), remove the splitpin from the big nut and then tighten it up (85ft/lbs springs to mind) refit the split pin and reconnect the prop'

job should then be jobbed

I've just realised what I've done, and it's really STUPID....I'm feeling really quite embarrassed. :doh:

There's me thinking I'm really clever and wondering why no-one else had thought about filling the transmission from the inspection panels...one is the transfer box, the other (I poured 5 litres into) was the output shaft housing (hence why it leaked from it), not the gearbox.

SO - and everything suddenly becomes clear - I drained the transfer box and the main gearbox, and then refilled the transfer box and output shaft housing. So the main gearbox remains empty. Might explain the horrible noise coming from it!

I am going to put some oil in through the filler plugs (like it says in the manual!) and HOPE I haven't knckered the gearbox through my own stupidity. If I have my previous post will still apply and I'll need advice on removing and replacing it.

Nearly feel to embarrassed to tell everyone, but thought I ought as you have been extremely helpful. Talking it through on here helped me think through the problem again and realise, so thank-you.

markconnor33 said:

The flat metal bits are most likely synchro springs, which have broken.

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Now looking at the manual, it looks like "Detent spring". Is that the same thing? What do they do and do they need replacing or can I do without it? If it needs replacing, is taking the gearbox off the only way?

mbeeken said:

Now looking at the manual, it looks like "Detent spring". Is that the same thing? What do they do and do they need replacing or can I do without it? If it needs replacing, is taking the gearbox off the only way?

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I'll be kind and not mention the oil filling "misunderstanding"

Detent and syncro are not the same. The detent springs at accessible from the top and help locate the selector shafts.
The flat syncro springs are in the 3/4th syncro unit. I have been told that it is possible to replace these from the top but there was no way I could do it. It was a touch fiddlely even when the box was apart.
Didn't you find a broken tooth aswell? If so, box out is my vote.(sorry)

It has always popped out of second gear. I wonder if that's because of the (two small) missing teeth. If that's the worst of it I can live with it for now and leave replacing the gearbox for another day (if I've got away with it).

I don't think I've noticed any effects of the missing/broken detent spring....maybe I'll have a peek in the top to see if I can see what state it's in.

i've just had a thought on the kangarooing, you could have a broken engine or gearbox rubber mount allowing the engine or gearbox to lift and bounc, which in turn generates the kangaroo effect

NiteMare said:

i've just had a thought on the kangarooing, you could have a broken engine or gearbox rubber mount allowing the engine or gearbox to lift and bounc, which in turn generates the kangaroo effect

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Was just reading through this and about to say the same. Before I replaced the gearbox and engine rubber mounts, I had horrific clutch judder and reversing was like it had oval wheels! This transformed the drive train and seemed to take out so much backlash. Simple thing for much improvement potentially.
My speedo sometimes skips about at low / take off speed but I've never bothered to investigate. Just assumed its normal.

NiteMare said:

i've no real idea/thoughts as to why you "kangaroo" in reverse so can't comment, sorry

yes, to hopefully fix your needle wavering all you should need to do is drop the prop from the gearbox end (tie it up out the way), remove the splitpin from the big nut and then tighten it up (85ft/lbs springs to mind) refit the split pin and reconnect the prop'

job should then be jobbed

Click to expand...

Thanks Pete

Much appreciated.

Mark