New Discovery earning its keep.

what difference does it make if yer have a tacho or not?
i can't see the difference between driving a landy/trailer overall weight of 3.5 ton and one of 3.9 ton?...
is this just more silly red tape?

According to the LRO article then once you have the tacho fitted you have to stick to the driving hours regs the same as lorry and coach drivers do and you have to keep the tacho records for years and years and years so they can check back and catch you out. But yeah I think it's just silly red tape and also to stop people driving huge amounts of hours straight towing big trailers and having stupid accidents due to tiredness and lack of concentration. Most of us responsible drivers would treat this as common sense (or uncommon sense as it seems to be) but I suppose there are loads of idiots on the roads.

BigRedBus said:

Bought my Discovery II facelift Td5 two weeks ago as a workhorse for my events business and my wife's laundry business.

Did some research on here before taking the plunge and the car has blown me away, I am totally converted, Discos are great!

In two weeks and 1,000 miles, no problems so far (touch wood), it has been running between London and the NEC completely laden with gear, plus in between times being used as a delivery/ collection vehicle for the laundry business. Great capacity and it pulls like a train.

Managed some light off road in between, a lot of fun.

It has even rained and the sunroofs don't leak!

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Lucky fooker, mine leaks like gawd knows what. I'm contemplating filling in my pond and keeping my Koi in my Disco II.

Rang Vosa this morning and explained my set up to them and yes I need a tacho fitting ffs, they told me because the trailer has a MGW of 3.5 tons even running empty I am under tacho regulations. What I want to know now is where the hell do I find a tacho fitting station with a 4WD rolling road all the ones around here are single designed for trucks so how the f**k can they calibrate it, the bloke in Ellesmere port recons they could do it over a set distance but it wont be correct not even 3% which they allow by law. and to top it all off me f***ing house is subsiding!!!!! talk about a bad day getting worse.

Ian

what difference does it make if yer have a tacho or not?
i can't see the difference between driving a landy/trailer overall weight of 3.5 ton and one of 3.9 ton?...
is this just more silly red tape?

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Me to Slob you'll probably find some arse crack sat in Vosa's office who's been stuck behind a farmer on his way to market pulling a trailer and thought right I'll sort you lot out like I have done with the HGV's,then turned to his mate and said "how do you spell trailer" this country is getting worse with all the red tape.

anyone useing a tacho need to read the new regs that were introduced on april 11th this year...****ing vosa ..... ime a class1 driver btw


ah and btw,you need to study the wtd - work time directive...****ing nightmare...all avail on vosa site.

Me too wafty been at it for 15 years and finally find a nice little earner to get me away from a declining industry and BANG Vosa go and throw a spanner in the works. I'd probably chance not fitting a tacho but I've got to pass a ministry weighbridge and notorious check point every trip and with a 24ft tri axle behind me I've got "pull me in" written all over me.

I was worried about the VOSA thread too, looked into it with VOSA, and yes, if you are using your vehicle for domestic, pleasure, or business, if the laden weight combined is 3.5t then a tacho must be used without fail.

The difference is about £5k Slob, and the only one talkin' out of thier arse is VOSA....

Just talked to Cannock Tacho, they calibrate them using a 'linear test track'? and all tacho stations should have one so they say. You can't fit one to a Disco 3, as it needs a digital and they don't work on them yet. Personally, I still can't get my head round all this, but I don't use mine for work or tow a large trailer so luckily I don't have to.

They were also saying about horse trailers, that if it's just for private use, your ok, but if you do event's and win prizes, then it's hire or reward and you do.... how f'kin stupids that???

Rob

RobCSH said:

The difference is about £5k Slob, and the only one talkin' out of thier arse is VOSA....


Rob

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aye but driving wise ,wots the difference?

Hooray!! Spoke to Vosa enforcement office today. Private use you need a tacho over 7.5t so that clears me with my trailer when I use it with weekends away with the family. Over 3.5t business use need a tacho but there is an exemption for agriculture, horticulture and fisheries vehicles within 100km radius of base. So they say as a landscaper I come under this and so don't need a tacho. Thank god for that! I needed to spend several hundred quid on getting a tacho fitted like a hole in the head. Most unlike me to be that lucky.

I spoke to VOSA earlier to clarify the situation regarding having a tow bar/hitch on a Land Rover and using it for business use.

The long and the short of it is thus:

A passenger vehicle which is also used as a towing vehicle is described by VOSA as 'combined use' and comes under the same regulations for towing as a goods vehicle. On this, my earlier comment was incorrect.

However, an offence is only commited when the gross laden mass of the vehicle train (i.e. towing vehicle and any trailer) exceeds:

Business use: 3,500 Kgs (exceptions include not being used more than 50kms from the registered address of the vehicle and carrying tools or equipment required for the profession of the driver where driving the vehicle is not the drivers main job and the 'train weight' is less than 7,500Kgs)

Private use: 7,500 Kgs

Having the ability to tow a trailer is irrelevent, as, if no trailer is attached and the actual vehicle weight is less than 3,500 Kgs, no offence has been committed.

If you use a vehicle of less than 3,500Kgs laden and it is fitted with a tow bar, but you never tow for business purposes you do NOT need a tacho fitted.

If you use a vehicle of less than 3,500Kgs laden and it is fitted with a tow bar, but you only ever tow for business purposes a trailer which does not, when laden, cause the combined weight to exceed 3,500Kgs you do NOT need a tacho fitted.

Just to reitterate, it is the ACTUAL weight of the vehicle and any trailer at the time of any alleged offence which is important, not the maximum permissable weight or towing weight of the vehicle.

Example: Land Rover Defender 90, car fully laden to manufaturers maximum weight = 2,400 Kgs hence no tacho required. Exceeding the conditions of use regulations for over loading a vehicle is a seperate offence. You can still tow a trailer of up to 1,100 Kgs laden weight without requiring either a tacho fitted to the car or an operators licence.

I don't know the manufacturers figures for a Disco, but it and the individual axles weights are listed on the VIN plate under the bonnet. If it's in the same order that mine is the list is:

Maximum gross mass:
Maximum gross mass including trailed load:
Axle 1 (front axle) mass:
Axle 2 (rear axle) mass:

Hope that clarifies it a little.

That's quite interesting, 'cause although he was towing a trailer when pulled in, the trailer was empty. They say that it's because the trailer has the capacity to haul over the 3.5 tonne limit that is why the offence is committed, and there was no argument that his is used for business (prat has his company name all over both...).
He's just called VOSA this afternoon to clarify this and their point to him was that although the vehicle was below 3.5 tonnes at the time, when used for the carriage of goods, it would be over. In the same way that a 7.5 tonne Iveco Eurocargo is under 3.5 tonnes unladen, it still must have a tachograph fitted.

Seem's to me the b*stards are making the rules up to suit themselves, and wont give you a straight answer either way. If they are in the wrong for pulling my mate, they sure as hell are going to cover their own arse now, guess we'll have to wait and see.

Why can't they put it down on paper so you don't need to be a f'kin lawyer to understand it?

Rob

RobCSH said:

That's quite interesting, 'cause although he was towing a trailer when pulled in, the trailer was empty. They say that it's because the trailer has the capacity to haul over the 3.5 tonne limit that is why the offence is committed, and there was no argument that his is used for business (prat has his company name all over both...).
He's just called VOSA this afternoon to clarify this and their point to him was that although the vehicle was below 3.5 tonnes at the time, when used for the carriage of goods, it would be over. In the same way that a 7.5 tonne Iveco Eurocargo is under 3.5 tonnes unladen, it still must have a tachograph fitted.

Seem's to me the b*stards are making the rules up to suit themselves, and wont give you a straight answer either way. If they are in the wrong for pulling my mate, they sure as hell are going to cover their own arse now, guess we'll have to wait and see.

Why can't they put it down on paper so you don't need to be a f'kin lawyer to understand it?

Rob

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Was his vehicle actually weighed at the time of the alleged offence? If not he's almost certainly in the clear as far as a prosecution is concerned. If they weighed the vehicle and trailer and it was over 3,500 kgs with no tacho, then he's knackered.

What vehicle was it - you don't mention it in your earlier posts.

It's a 2001 Discovery TD5 (GS model I think..), no it wasn't weighed at the time, he was pulled in on a road side check, loads of Old Bill and VOSA.

I think his best bet is to get some legal advice, hearsay and different interpretations of what the law can and does mean are running him round in circles. Personally,I think the tight arse should have bought a truck in the first place... might have proved cheaper in the long run.

Rob

Since the need to use the tacho depends on the plated (ie potential) weight of the vehicle, not its actual weight, it is logical that the POTENTIAL weight of vehicle plus trailer should be what counts. Any update on this situation since april?

Treworgey 90 said:

I guess this covers us old farts who passed their test more than 10 years ago!

All drivers who passed a car test before 1 January 1997 retain their existing entitlement to tow trailers until their licence expires. This means they are generally entitled to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8.25 tonnes MAM. They also have entitlement to drive a minibus with a trailer over 750kgs MAM.

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Keep an eye on this point - I heard that when people apply to change "old style" licences to new ones, the assholes at Swansea try to sneak the "minibus with a trailer over 750kgs MAM" entitlement OFF the licence unless the person spcifically asks that it be kept on.

Worth being sure.

CharlesY

True, but that doesn't exempt you from tacho legislation, which is what the thread's about. I renew my licence fairly regularly, as it has class C (HGV) entitlement and I've passed whatever the magic age is. I've never had problems with entitlements disappearing, but I did once have to make a fuss to get them to include the Class D provisional entitlement I'd asked for. Incidentally, not a Disco matter, but if you take a Series or Defender with more than 9 seats abroad it also needs a tachograph!

So how does this work?

100% LPG – No tachograph required

For those commercial towers out there it is worth knowing that if your vehicle runs only on LPG (no petrol tank or ability to run on petrol just LPG), and you tow commercially and have a combined Gross Weight of 3500 kg or more – you can be exempt from a tachograph.

I have a tacho fitted in my Td5 as I use it for commercial gain or profit, if I run down to London say when I have finished delivering I put a new plate in and bin the one I came down with, they can't prove where and when you picked the trailer up,

D1NOH said:

I have a tacho fitted in my Td5 as I use it for commercial gain or profit, if I run down to London say when I have finished delivering I put a new plate in and bin the one I came down with, they can't prove where and when you picked the trailer up,

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There's a lot of cameras out there, and those bastards would spend weeks looking at footage to try to catch you doing that.

Two sets of numberplates is an alternative.
Loads of truckers do that, and most of them have half a dozen driving licences too so there points get spread over and no one licence gets 12, so no ban is sentenced.

CharlesY