New Cam belt Problems

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A

Andy Seymour

Guest
I have just fitted a new cam belt to my 1988 Defender 90, 2.5 TD, I
took great care in getting it to top dead centre, used correct tool to
pin fuel pump, but could not locate the "Alleged" flywheel locking
point, and therefore could lock in top dead centre. Therefore, I
ensured that the arrows were correctly lined up the TDC marks on gears
in the flywheel housing. I replaced the cam belt tensioner at same
time, and set to required torque.

After a great deal of trying, the bloody thing finally started again,
but I have now got a very serious problem with white smoke. It doesn't
matter how much I adjust the fuel pump, the amount of smoke does not
change.

Other than the obvious , that I have completely cocked up the timing
(I have removed and replaced and adjusted the belt again) I am now at
a loss.

Any help would be gratefully appreciated, once you have stopped
falling about laughing :)
 
I just did the cambelt on a Disco 200TDI today. Don't know how similar a TD
is, but my book said to check the fuel pump setting after pre-tensioning the
cambelt and rotating the camshaft twice (even though it was locked
previously). So obviously in some cases the fuel pump needs a slight
adjustment after the belt has been replaced.

Don't know if it applies to you, though.

Pieter


"Andy Seymour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have just fitted a new cam belt to my 1988 Defender 90, 2.5 TD, I
> took great care in getting it to top dead centre, used correct tool to
> pin fuel pump, but could not locate the "Alleged" flywheel locking
> point, and therefore could lock in top dead centre. Therefore, I
> ensured that the arrows were correctly lined up the TDC marks on gears
> in the flywheel housing. I replaced the cam belt tensioner at same
> time, and set to required torque.
>
> After a great deal of trying, the bloody thing finally started again,
> but I have now got a very serious problem with white smoke. It doesn't
> matter how much I adjust the fuel pump, the amount of smoke does not
> change.
>
> Other than the obvious , that I have completely cocked up the timing
> (I have removed and replaced and adjusted the belt again) I am now at
> a loss.
>
> Any help would be gratefully appreciated, once you have stopped
> falling about laughing :)


 

Pieter Vroom wrote:
> I just did the cambelt on a Disco 200TDI today. Don't know how
similar a TD
> is, but my book said to check the fuel pump setting after
pre-tensioning the
> cambelt and rotating the camshaft twice (even though it was locked
> previously). So obviously in some cases the fuel pump needs a slight
> adjustment after the belt has been replaced.
>
> Don't know if it applies to you, though.
>
> Pieter
>
>
> "Andy Seymour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >I have just fitted a new cam belt to my 1988 Defender 90, 2.5 TD, I
> > took great care in getting it to top dead centre, used correct tool
to
> > pin fuel pump, but could not locate the "Alleged" flywheel locking
> > point, and therefore could lock in top dead centre. Therefore, I
> > ensured that the arrows were correctly lined up the TDC marks on
gears
> > in the flywheel housing. I replaced the cam belt tensioner at same
> > time, and set to required torque.
> >
> > After a great deal of trying, the bloody thing finally started
again,
> > but I have now got a very serious problem with white smoke. It
doesn't
> > matter how much I adjust the fuel pump, the amount of smoke does
not
> > change.
> >
> > Other than the obvious , that I have completely cocked up the
timing
> > (I have removed and replaced and adjusted the belt again) I am now
at
> > a loss.
> >
> > Any help would be gratefully appreciated, once you have stopped
> > falling about laughing :)

 
> change.
>
> Other than the obvious , that I have completely cocked up the timing
> (I have removed and replaced and adjusted the belt again) I am now at
> a loss.
>
> Any help would be gratefully appreciated, once you have stopped
> falling about laughing :)

Did it myself on a diesel cavalier. Sounds like the timing is one notch
out - the white is unburnt fuel in the smoke.
TonyB


 
> Other than the obvious , that I have completely cocked up the timing
> (I have removed and replaced and adjusted the belt again) I am now at
> a loss.

Oh dear! I wouldn't say it... but you know what it is! Always mark the cam,
injection pump and crank pullies to the engine with tipex so when you put
the belt back on you can check everything is still timed up. Yep, stick
dowls in or use timing tools ect but always mark it too! After all... it was
running fine timed up as it was befor the belt was swaped. Then, when its
all back to gether, turn the engine over by hand a couple of times and check
everything still lines up and the belt tention is still ok.
Unfortunatly hinesight is a wonderfull thing :S
Toby


 
On 18 Jan 2005 10:44:33 -0800, [email protected] (Andy
Seymour) wrote:

>Any help would be gratefully appreciated, once you have stopped
>falling about laughing :)

Are you sure you havent knocked something else in the process?. Its
worth double checking everything round the engine for it being
properly affixed and tight where necessary.

Having just done the head gasket on my saab, and had the dissy off to
replace it for one that wasnt dodgy, It wouldnt start.
When i double checked all the air pipes to the turbo that i had had to
remove to get the head off i found one that i hadnt tightened. That
was enough to stop it sucking air through the right places and moving
the metering flap and giving me enough petrol to run.
 
only issue here is, its a new belt, otherwise good points. and i have
to say in hinesight on this one, leave it alone, heh heh, next time i
will know better of course?????
Andy

 
TVS wrote:
> > Other than the obvious , that I have completely cocked up the
timing
> > (I have removed and replaced and adjusted the belt again) I am now
at
> > a loss.
>
> Oh dear! I wouldn't say it... but you know what it is! Always mark
the cam,
> injection pump and crank pullies to the engine with tipex so when you
put
> the belt back on you can check everything is still timed up. Yep,
stick
> dowls in or use timing tools ect but always mark it too! After all...
it was
> running fine timed up as it was befor the belt was swaped. Then, when
its
> all back to gether, turn the engine over by hand a couple of times
and check
> everything still lines up and the belt tention is still ok.
> Unfortunatly hinesight is a wonderfull thing :S
> Toby

only issue here is, its a new belt, otherwise good points. and i have
to say in hinesight on this one, leave it alone, heh heh, next time i
will know better of course?????
Andy

 
On or around Tue, 18 Jan 2005 23:45:44 -0000, "TVS"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>> Other than the obvious , that I have completely cocked up the timing
>> (I have removed and replaced and adjusted the belt again) I am now at
>> a loss.
>
>Oh dear! I wouldn't say it... but you know what it is! Always mark the cam,
>injection pump and crank pullies to the engine with tipex so when you put
>the belt back on you can check everything is still timed up. Yep, stick
>dowls in or use timing tools ect but always mark it too! After all... it was
>running fine timed up as it was befor the belt was swaped. Then, when its
>all back to gether, turn the engine over by hand a couple of times and check
>everything still lines up and the belt tention is still ok.
>Unfortunatly hinesight is a wonderfull thing :S

it's always possible that someone's done it wrong before. I had an Audi 80
some while ago, petrol engine and the cam belt broke. Put new belt on,
timed distributor according to the book, no go.

spend some while wondering why, before I twigged that some clown in the past
had assembled it with the distributor 90 degrees out, and thus the plug
leads were in the "wrong" places. Was running fine before, of course, but
not afterwards. Swapped the leads around 90 degrees and off she went.

in your case, it's possible that for some reason "correct" timing on the
pulleys is incorrect on the pump.

Mind, on our 300 TDi I put a new belt on, timed it very carefully using all
the pins and so forth, and it ran just like it did before; i.e. flat as a
fart. Advanced the pump (at least 6 degrees, I should think) and it's now a
lot better.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"The great masses of the people ... will more easily fall victims to
a great lie than to a small one" Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
from Mein Kampf, Ch 10
 
In message <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Andy Seymour) wrote:

> I have just fitted a new cam belt to my 1988 Defender 90, 2.5 TD, I
> took great care in getting it to top dead centre, used correct tool to
> pin fuel pump, but could not locate the "Alleged" flywheel locking
> point, and therefore could lock in top dead centre. Therefore, I
> ensured that the arrows were correctly lined up the TDC marks on gears
> in the flywheel housing. I replaced the cam belt tensioner at same
> time, and set to required torque.
>
> After a great deal of trying, the bloody thing finally started again,
> but I have now got a very serious problem with white smoke. It doesn't
> matter how much I adjust the fuel pump, the amount of smoke does not
> change.
>
> Other than the obvious , that I have completely cocked up the timing
> (I have removed and replaced and adjusted the belt again) I am now at
> a loss.
>
> Any help would be gratefully appreciated, once you have stopped
> falling about laughing :)

Did you do the tensioning part of the set up (at least)
twice as recommended - it's easy to end up with sprokets
out of line if it's not doble checked.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems
 
OK, I have re-dun the timing, everything is definitely lined up, I
think the last time I made the mistake of just lining up with the teeth
that had the marks on rather than actually attempting to line up with
the timing marks. Started ok, and ran for a short while with front
still off.

I attempted to adjust the fuel pump and get the timing pin to lock,
while I still had the front off and all timing marks aligned, but could
not get the pin to lock??? Although if I insert a small screwdriver, as
far as I can tell the pump is in the correct location??

I will replace the water pump tonight and give it a go, keep your
fingers crossed.

Andy

 
On or around 19 Jan 2005 23:50:52 -0800, "andy" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>OK, I have re-dun the timing, everything is definitely lined up, I
>think the last time I made the mistake of just lining up with the teeth
>that had the marks on rather than actually attempting to line up with
>the timing marks. Started ok, and ran for a short while with front
>still off.
>
>I attempted to adjust the fuel pump and get the timing pin to lock,
>while I still had the front off and all timing marks aligned, but could
>not get the pin to lock??? Although if I insert a small screwdriver, as
>far as I can tell the pump is in the correct location??
>

Getting the pin (drill, in my case :)) into the pump hub on the TDi is a
pain in the arse. It has to line up *exactly*.

Mind, not as much of a pain as having the flywheel pin underneath. What
moron decided on that then?

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Too Busy: Your mind is like a motorway. Sometimes it can be jammed by
too much traffic. Avoid the jams by never using your mind on a
Bank Holiday weekend.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 
Austin Shackles wrote:

> Getting the pin (drill, in my case :)) into the pump hub on the TDi
is a
> pain in the arse. It has to line up *exactly*.
>
> Mind, not as much of a pain as having the flywheel pin underneath.
What
> moron decided on that then?
>
Heh heh heh, at least you can find your flwheel pin "hole" I think
mine was in mid change over, I can see where it used to be, now
blanked, but have no other location, unless of course they have put in
a part of the cover that I cannot see without removing the engine from
the bay that is??

Andy

 

"andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Austin Shackles wrote:
>
> > Getting the pin (drill, in my case :)) into the pump hub on the TDi
> is a
> > pain in the arse. It has to line up *exactly*.
> >
> > Mind, not as much of a pain as having the flywheel pin underneath.
> What
> > moron decided on that then?
> >
> Heh heh heh, at least you can find your flwheel pin "hole" I think
> mine was in mid change over, I can see where it used to be, now
> blanked, but have no other location, unless of course they have put in
> a part of the cover that I cannot see without removing the engine from
> the bay that is??

On my NA/D the flywheel pin hole was at the upper drivers side of the
flywheel housing, but I marked it with tipex and checked it b4 I took the
belt off.
My cam was 2 teeth out before I started so I put it right but it made no
difference.


 

Angus McCoatup wrote:
>
> On my NA/D the flywheel pin hole was at the upper drivers side of the
> flywheel housing, but I marked it with tipex and checked it b4 I took
the
> belt off.
> My cam was 2 teeth out before I started so I put it right but it made
no
> difference.

yeh I can see where the pin hole was/is on a NA, but it is blanked over
now (cast) on mine, I cant for the life of me find another, only other
I have is the breather/drain in the front base of the flywheel cover, I
even tried this in desperation, but none of the pins I have fit.

Hey ho.... I think it is about there now, wasn't smoking (or not as
bad anyway) as before I did the belt after some adjustment to the pump,
I will try it again over weekend. Unfortunately not in position to give
it a test drive yet, as still in process of doing front springs and
shocks, so just have to see how it goes in garage.

Andy

 

"andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Angus McCoatup wrote:
> >
> > On my NA/D the flywheel pin hole was at the upper drivers side of the
> > flywheel housing, but I marked it with tipex and checked it b4 I took
> the
> > belt off.
> > My cam was 2 teeth out before I started so I put it right but it made
> no
> > difference.
>
> yeh I can see where the pin hole was/is on a NA, but it is blanked over
> now (cast) on mine, I cant for the life of me find another, only other
> I have is the breather/drain in the front base of the flywheel cover, I
> even tried this in desperation, but none of the pins I have fit.
>
> Hey ho.... I think it is about there now, wasn't smoking (or not as
> bad anyway) as before I did the belt after some adjustment to the pump,
> I will try it again over weekend. Unfortunately not in position to give
> it a test drive yet, as still in process of doing front springs and
> shocks, so just have to see how it goes in garage.
>


Has it got a plate held on with 2 bolts near there?
Mine has both you are suposed to fit a pointer in the hole and line it up
with a mark on the flywheel.


 

Angus McCoatup wrote:
> "andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Angus McCoatup wrote:
>
> Has it got a plate held on with 2 bolts near there?
> Mine has both you are suposed to fit a pointer in the hole and line
it up
> with a mark on the flywheel.

No its not there, you can see where it was in the casting, but it is a
solid part of the casting now.

Andy

 

"andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Angus McCoatup wrote:
> > "andy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > Angus McCoatup wrote:
> >
> > Has it got a plate held on with 2 bolts near there?
> > Mine has both you are suposed to fit a pointer in the hole and line
> it up
> > with a mark on the flywheel.
>
> No its not there, you can see where it was in the casting, but it is a
> solid part of the casting now.
>
> Andy


Wonder if its got a petrol flywheel cover on without a timing pin hole??


 
I am now as sure as possible that the timing is correct, if I adjust
the fuel pump I get different amounts of smoke, and it makes it
harder/easier to start, and varies how happily it runs.

I have a leaking injector return/leak off bit on the top, how much
would this contribute to the amount of smoke?

 
On or around 26 Jan 2005 23:38:25 -0800, "andy" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>I am now as sure as possible that the timing is correct, if I adjust
>the fuel pump I get different amounts of smoke, and it makes it
>harder/easier to start, and varies how happily it runs.
>
>I have a leaking injector return/leak off bit on the top, how much
>would this contribute to the amount of smoke?

shouldn't I wouldn't think. A leak in the injector feed would make for poor
running. the leak off/return pipe shouldn't affect the running. a dodgy
injector might though.

was it smoky before all this?

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Nessun maggior dolore che ricordarsi del tempo felice nella miseria"
- Dante Alighieri (1265 - 1321) from Divina Commedia 'Inferno'
 
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