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On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:37:07 +0100, "Greg"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> anything made of metal is supposed to be an unsuitable container
>> according to the official looking H&S literature i used to ignore when
>> i worked as a forecourt attendant back when I was at college. I was
>> supposed to sell it in those 5l plastic containers only.
>
>Which is absolutely idiotic of course, far more likely to be a ploy to sell
>THEIR plastic cans to people who turn up with a jerry and don't want to go
>home empty handed.

I think the literature was from an association or official body?. The
garage I worked at was a small local indie one (I had regulars! :) )
not one in a big chain.

I always thought it was fairly stupid - metal jerry cans are good
enough for the army (who generally over spec things) so i'm sure they
are good enough for normal people!

I always used to sell petrol in whatever people wanted to put it in.
 
"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> I think the literature was from an association or official body?. The
> garage I worked at was a small local indie one (I had regulars! :) )
> not one in a big chain.

Everything a trade association does has one eye on keeping their members
happy, and safety is often the excuse for slipping in rules that benefit
them, I'm only guessing in this particular case but it's true in general. A
classic was the IEE insisting on bonding every tap etc in a kitchen on
safety grounds, that made a lot of work for a lot of electricians but has
been withdrawn as it was shown to be making things more dangerous in many
cases.

Greg


 
In message <[email protected]>
"Greg" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > I think the literature was from an association or official body?. The
> > garage I worked at was a small local indie one (I had regulars! :) )
> > not one in a big chain.
>
> Everything a trade association does has one eye on keeping their members
> happy, and safety is often the excuse for slipping in rules that benefit
> them, I'm only guessing in this particular case but it's true in general. A
> classic was the IEE insisting on bonding every tap etc in a kitchen on
> safety grounds, that made a lot of work for a lot of electricians but has
> been withdrawn as it was shown to be making things more dangerous in many
> cases.
>

....... and the one they came up with about no sockets to be reachable
by anyone with a hand in the sink!


> Greg
>
>

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive
 
Greg wrote:
> "Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>> I think the literature was from an association or official body?. The
>> garage I worked at was a small local indie one (I had regulars! :) )
>> not one in a big chain.
>
> Everything a trade association does has one eye on keeping their
> members happy, and safety is often the excuse for slipping in rules
> that benefit them, I'm only guessing in this particular case but it's
> true in general. A classic was the IEE insisting on bonding every tap
> etc in a kitchen on safety grounds, that made a lot of work for a lot
> of electricians but has been withdrawn as it was shown to be making
> things more dangerous in many cases.
>
> Greg

Didn't know that had been withdrawn!!
Must investigate!

--
Don't say it cannot be done, rather what is needed to do it!

If the answer is offensive maybe the question was inappropriate

The fiend of my fiend is my enema!


 
"beamendsltd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:c37356e4e%[email protected]...

> ...... and the one they came up with about no sockets to be reachable
> by anyone with a hand in the sink!

I think the next one to become notorious will be the fact you no longer cap
wiring buried in walls if it's within a 'zone'. This saves a lot of work but
assumes the general public know not to drill a wall in a zone 100mm wide
radiating vertically and horizontally from any switch or socket, nor close
to an internal corner or ceiling, nor on the reverse side of a thin
partition wall that backs on to a zone. I seriously wonder how many DIYers
know about that.

I did the 16th edition and the electrical inspector's courses last year to
get up to date, there's a lot of good common sense in there but also a fair
few suspicious bits that would seem to put ease before safety.

Greg


 
"GbH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Didn't know that had been withdrawn!!
> Must investigate!

You're not alone, plenty of electricians don't know either 8-(, hopefully
the recent changes in the law that effectively ban unqualified people from
doing most domestic work will improve things.

For the record, supplementary equipotential bonding is now normally only
required in rooms with baths and showers, rooms where people are going to be
immersed so their skin resistance is low. In other areas, particularly
toilets and kitchens, adding more places you can touch a solid earth is
generally frowned upon because an earth free environment is by far the
safest.

Apparently the IEE argued against the change on the grounds that even with
plastic pipes the water in them could conduct, hence the ludicrous practice
amongst large house builders of inserting a foot of metal pipe into an
otherwise plastic system so that the bond wire could be strapped to it!.
Amazingly enough the IEE didn't know that water is an insulator, only
becoming conductive when impurities are added (wet skin has lots of salt in
it). This only ended when ERA did the obvious experiment of filling a
plastic pipe with tap water from around the country and measuring it's
resistance, their conclusion was that less than a metre of water filled pipe
will insulate you sufficiently so the IEE backed down.

Anyway, I think we're way off topic now :cool:

Greg


 
Greg wrote:
> "GbH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> Didn't know that had been withdrawn!!
>> Must investigate!
>
> You're not alone, plenty of electricians don't know either 8-(,
> hopefully the recent changes in the law that effectively ban
> unqualified people from doing most domestic work will improve things.
>
> For the record, supplementary equipotential bonding is now normally
> only required in rooms with baths and showers, rooms where people are
> going to be immersed so their skin resistance is low. In other areas,
> particularly toilets and kitchens, adding more places you can touch a
> solid earth is generally frowned upon because an earth free
> environment is by far the safest.
>
> Apparently the IEE argued against the change on the grounds that even
> with plastic pipes the water in them could conduct, hence the
> ludicrous practice amongst large house builders of inserting a foot
> of metal pipe into an otherwise plastic system so that the bond wire
> could be strapped to it!. Amazingly enough the IEE didn't know that
> water is an insulator, only becoming conductive when impurities are
> added (wet skin has lots of salt in it). This only ended when ERA did
> the obvious experiment of filling a plastic pipe with tap water from
> around the country and measuring it's resistance, their conclusion
> was that less than a metre of water filled pipe will insulate you
> sufficiently so the IEE backed down.
>
> Anyway, I think we're way off topic now :cool:
>
> Greg

In spite of my email address, the IEE is no more!!!!! its now the IET.
Don't get me started!!

I reckon Micky F is spinning in his grave!


--
Don't say it cannot be done, rather what is needed to do it!

If the answer is offensive maybe the question was inappropriate

The fiend of my fiend is my enema!


 
GbH wrote:

> In spite of my email address, the IEE is no more!!!!! its now the IET.
> Don't get me started!!

You too ?

Steve
aka [email protected] Not, ever, IET.
 
steve wrote:
> GbH wrote:
>
>> In spite of my email address, the IEE is no more!!!!! its now the
>> IET. Don't get me started!!
>
> You too ?
>
> Steve
> aka [email protected] Not, ever, IET.

Told you DO NOT GET ME STARTED!!

--
Don't say it cannot be done, rather what is needed to do it!

If the answer is offensive maybe the question was inappropriate

The fiend of my fiend is my enema!


 
"GbH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> In spite of my email address, the IEE is no more!!!!! its now the IET.
> Don't get me started!!

Yes I know, a while ago I started the process of becoming an member but
decided better of it as the professional benefits were limited, now that no
one even knows their name I'm convinced I made the right call :cool:.

That aside, all the piles of 16th edition documents I have will be labelled
IEE for a many a year to come so I can't see people stopping calling them
that.

Greg


 
On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 14:33:13 +0100, Tom Woods wrote:

> anything made of metal is supposed to be an unsuitable container
> according to the official looking H&S literature i used to ignore

Good for you the licencing regulations state that 10l metal with a proper
vapour proof cap and marked "Petroleum Spirit Highly Flammable" (OWTTE)
is a suitable container for petrol. Note 10l so 20l jerry cans are out
(in theory...). 5l is the max for plastic containers for petrol.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
"Dave Liquorice" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> 5l is the max for plastic containers for petrol.

Then it's a pity all modern cars have plastic petrol tanks much larger than
this isn't it :cool:, I'm lead to understand there are also laws about how much
(or rather little) petrol you can store in your garage too yet you can have
as many cars with as much fuel as will fit. If you got rid of all the
inconsistent laws I wonder how many would be left?.

Greg


 

"Greg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Dave Liquorice" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > 5l is the max for plastic containers for petrol.
>
> Then it's a pity all modern cars have plastic petrol tanks much
larger than
> this isn't it :cool:, I'm lead to understand there are also laws about
how much
> (or rather little) petrol you can store in your garage too yet you
can have
> as many cars with as much fuel as will fit. If you got rid of all
the
> inconsistent laws I wonder how many would be left?.
>
> Greg
>
>

Well I have long held the view that we have far too many laws, after
all parliaments have been sitting for hundreds of years. My suggestion
(come the revolution) it that they should only be able to pass a law
if they repeal an existing two laws <G>

Perhaps we should revert to the old system where parliament was only
convened when there was something to talk about. With the MPs being
there all the time they have to justify their existance by over
legislation.

AWEM


 

"Greg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Dave Liquorice" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>> 5l is the max for plastic containers for petrol.
>
> Then it's a pity all modern cars have plastic petrol tanks much larger
> than
> this isn't it :cool:, I'm lead to understand there are also laws about how
> much
> (or rather little) petrol you can store in your garage too yet you can
> have
> as many cars with as much fuel as will fit. If you got rid of all the
> inconsistent laws I wonder how many would be left?.
>
> Greg
>
Plus a large number of unemployed lawyers - which is why the government will
never do it. for a little more of the farcical regs see
http://www.hse.gov.uk/LAU/lacs/65-9.htm which bacically means your local
used car lot is breaking the law if it has more than a dozen or so cars
containing fuel or not depending on which part of the section on metal
containers you read.


Derek

also available : Explaining the concept of a brewery outing to a politician


 
In message <[email protected]>
"Derek" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> "Greg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Dave Liquorice" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> >> 5l is the max for plastic containers for petrol.
> >
> > Then it's a pity all modern cars have plastic petrol tanks much larger
> > than
> > this isn't it :cool:, I'm lead to understand there are also laws about how
> > much
> > (or rather little) petrol you can store in your garage too yet you can
> > have
> > as many cars with as much fuel as will fit. If you got rid of all the
> > inconsistent laws I wonder how many would be left?.
> >
> > Greg
> >
> Plus a large number of unemployed lawyers - which is why the government will
> never do it. for a little more of the farcical regs see
> http://www.hse.gov.uk/LAU/lacs/65-9.htm which bacically means your local
> used car lot is breaking the law if it has more than a dozen or so cars
> containing fuel or not depending on which part of the section on metal
> containers you read.
>
>
> Derek
>
> also available : Explaining the concept of a brewery outing to a politician
>
>

Some time back I worked for British Rail, both as a Guard and as
a Signalman. The Rule Book had evolved over many, many years and
was extrememly comprehensive, covering every possible situation
and circumstance (note: it was developed by Railwaymen, not
Lawyers, so being comprehensive was possible). It was, to
all inetents and purposes, "The Law" (legally, too)
There was, however, general agreement that it would be impossible
to actually run the railway using the book *to the letter*,
hence "work to rule" industrial action was so effective.
I hate to think what it looks like now, since "accident
investigation" (the lessons of which were enshrined in the
Rule Book) is no longer carried out by railwaymen under the
guidance of an independent Inspector, but by lawyers steering
the health & safety executive, often with very dubious motives.

My point (finaly!) is this - if the law is too percise, it
will collapse becuase it will become unworkable. A case in
point is emplyoment law - I want to employ someone, but the
risk for a small buiness is massive - I can have some clown
trun up and bankrupt my business simply because I didn't
give them the job (they can get legal aid to go to a tribunal
on *any* grounds, no matter how stupid - I'd get no help at all)
- never mind actually giving them the job and then finding
that they are theiving gits etc (you can't even sack someone,
on the spot if you catch them walking out of the place with
armfulls of your stock - really!).

Plus, it's pracically impossible to word an advert now
describing the sort of person you want without upsetting
someone and ending up in front of another tribunal.

The lunatics have indeed already taken over the asylum!

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
www.radioparadise.com - Good Music, No Vine
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive
 
On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 10:42:39 +0100, Greg
<[email protected]> wrote:

> ..
> If you got rid of all the
> inconsistent laws I wonder how many would be left?.

One

--
William Tasso

Land Rover - 110 V8
Discovery - V8
 
On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 10:42:39 +0100, Greg wrote:

>> 5l is the max for plastic containers for petrol.
>
> Then it's a pity all modern cars have plastic petrol tanks much larger
> than this isn't it :cool:,

Pedant we were talking about hand portable containers.

> I'm lead to understand there are also laws about how much (or rather
> little) petrol you can store in your garage ...

That depends on the building and it's attachment or otherwise to another
building and if you are licenced. 175l, without a licence, in 5/10l
(plastic/metal) containers in a building x metres from an occupied
building springs to mind. It's all on the web if you look.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
beamendsltd wrote:

|| that they are theiving gits etc (you can't even sack someone,
|| on the spot if you catch them walking out of the place with
|| armfulls of your stock - really!).

If you word their contract so that an employee may be instantly dismissed
for gross misconduct, and that your list of examples of gross misconduct
includes theft from the employer, you would be in a very strong position.
Same with drunk at work, drugs etc. We have instantly dismissed people for
drinking while on duty, and never had any comeback. There isn't a tribunal
in the country that would award damages or demand reinstatement for an
employee who was caught red-handed stealing from their employer.

--
Rich
==============================

Take out the obvious to email me.


 
Richard Brookman wrote:
> beamendsltd wrote:
>
>>> that they are theiving gits etc (you can't even sack someone,
>>> on the spot if you catch them walking out of the place with
>>> armfulls of your stock - really!).
>
> If you word their contract so that an employee may be instantly
> dismissed for gross misconduct, and that your list of examples of
> gross misconduct includes theft from the employer, you would be in
> a very strong position. Same with drunk at work, drugs etc. We
> have instantly dismissed people for drinking while on duty, and
> never had any comeback. There isn't a tribunal in the country that
> would award damages or demand reinstatement for an employee who was
> caught red-handed stealing from their employer.

I just sacked my accounts manager for the exact same thing. Gave herself a nice payrise & put in a few
'dodgy' invoices for fook knows what & paid it to herself. She has also nicked loads of stuff through
Viking direct too, including tons of random **** we would never use! Also, she got tons of free gifts
that are meant for the company & took the ****ers home!!

I'm off to the Police on Monday, it's only about £900 but i aint wearing that no way. If it where a bloke
i would have knocked the **** out.


--
Ta!

Nige

Subaru WRX (54)
Land Rover Turbo Diesel 110 (G)
KTM 520 SX (2001)
Kawasaki ZZR 1100 (1995)


 

"Dave Liquorice" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 10:42:39 +0100, Greg wrote:
>
> >> 5l is the max for plastic containers for petrol.
> >
> > Then it's a pity all modern cars have plastic petrol tanks much larger
> > than this isn't it :cool:,
>
> Pedant we were talking about hand portable containers.

I think you missed the smiley!, but even so I totally fail to see why a
portable can is now limited to 5l and plastic when the world has been using
larger metal ones since petrol was invented, and vehicles carry 50l plastic
or metal tanks.

Greg


 
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