let's talk wheels & tyres (non monster truck...)

farmershort said:

Do you know what... I think I've finally figured out what I was banging on about in the OP. When I thought I remembered having new range masters fitted to that old defender, I reckon they were actually alleged Goodrich AT tubed tyres, and bad those ridges on the inside. Anyway, I ended up taking then back several times with punctured tubes. I was told that all modern tyres had those ridges, and that the answer was heavy duty Dunlop inner tubes. These lasted till i sold the landy... But I wasn't convinced.

That put me right off tubed tyres!

So these lovely tubeless wheels off the end of the production line from Solihull would be no good... They're tubeless, which I gather means that they're not smooth enough or something like that.... More punctures!

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Hasnt been my experience. Bought a set of standard rims in 2013, brand new tubeless rims 5.5. I run em with tubed Fedima 7.50R16, Got another set of modular wheels, about five years old, also tubeless, run them tubed, with 205R16 mud tyres. And the original rims from the ninety, tube rims, run them tubed with 205 75 R16, for summer and towing. Not had any problems doing this.
Dont even get many punctures, considering I live down a long lane lined with blackthorn!

Good to know turboman. Thanks.

Just re-checked that camskill link...

It's says TL type.

How can that be true when the Avon tyres website only shows tubed tyres?

Here's the Avon tyres link to show I'm not losing my mind:

www.avon-tyres.co.uk/4x4/rangemaster

Can anyone confirm whether there are both TT and TL rangemasters?

I guess the insa turbos I run are dog **** compared to some of the standard tires I could run on the old girl!

Well they certainly look like it

farmershort said:

Just re-checked that camskill link...

It's says TL type.

How can that be true when the Avon tyres website only shows tubed tyres?

Here's the Avon tyres link to show I'm not losing my mind:

www.avon-tyres.co.uk/4x4/rangemaster

Can anyone confirm whether there are both TT and TL rangemasters?

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I think you may be worrying too much about this.
On steel wheels, as far as I know, the only difference between tubed rims and tubeless rims is that the hole for the valve stem is slightly bigger in tubeless rims. Makes no odds, run em with tubes if you want. Or not! I should think tubeless rims are hard to get now anyway.
When the tyres arrive, they will say on them whether to run tubed or tubeless. Probably best go with what the manufacturer suggests.
Although tbh I am not sure if that matters much either. All my tractor tyres are tubeless tyres running tubes, on tube type rims. Not had any issues with them either!

IamRobbie said:

I guess the insa turbos I run are dog **** compared to some of the standard tires I could run on the old girl!

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Obviously Insas are a remould, so maybe not the quality or long lfe of a premium tyre like Avon or Michelin.
But I like my Insa turbo dakars, found them to be very good round the farm and laning. When it is real soft and greasy I would use the Fedimas.

Special tracks are noisey on the road and she handles like a pig but I do love her. Big problem with the remoulds is the tire walls cracking first I do agree

Turboman said:

I think you may be worrying too much about this.
On steel wheels, as far as I know, the only difference between tubed rims and tubeless rims is that the hole for the valve stem is slightly bigger in tubeless rims. Makes no odds, run em with tubes if you want. Or not! I should think tubeless rims are hard to get now anyway.
When the tyres arrive, they will say on them whether to run tubed or tubeless. Probably best go with what the manufacturer suggests.
Although tbh I am not sure if that matters much either. All my tractor tyres are tubeless tyres running tubes, on tube type rims. Not had any issues with them either!

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Tubeless rims have a safety ridge around that stops the tyre bead coming loose. Tubed rims lack this, so a tube must be used regardless of tyre type. Though many people run tubeless tyres on them without issues. It's more of a 'if something goes wrong you will be dragged through the courts' sort of things.

Tubeless Land Rover rims are widely available and cheap, so I'm not sure why anyone would bother with tubes any more. The modern (i.e. mid-2000s on or thereabouts) 'Standard' 5.5" Land Rover rims will take either 205s or 750s, or alternative there are the 6.5" 'Wolf' HD rims which will take 750s or 235s/255s/265s etc. Finally a vast array of alloys and aftermarket rims in 7" or wider for those wanting wider tyres. All available in tubeless format.

I use the HD rims, they're ideal sized as they will take either 750s or 235s, they're tubeless so no hassles with that, plus they're strong as hell.

Retroanaconda said:

Tubeless Land Rover rims are widely available and cheap, so I'm not sure why anyone would bother with tubes any more. The modern (i.e. mid-2000s on or thereabouts) 'Standard' 5.5" Land Rover rims will take either 205s or 750s, or alternative there are the 6.5" 'Wolf' HD rims which will take 750s or 235s/255s/265s etc. Finally a vast array of alloys and aftermarket rims in 7" or wider for those wanting wider tyres. All available in tubeless format.

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As I said earlier, I think tube rims are hard to get now. Last two sets of rims I have bought were tubeless.
I run them with tubes because all my tyres are tube type. And not had a problem doing that for many years!

Agree about the rims , see post 55, 61, etc.

Bit of an update here... I've recieved 5 lovely new LR rims - standard tubeless 5.5J 16" - good for either tubed or tubless.

I've also just recieved 5 Avon Rangemaster tyres. Listed on the camskill website as TL.... This is where it gets interesting:







As you'll notice from Photo 2, there's a lot of ridging inside the tyre, which fits with the TL type of tyre (as per the listing on the website).

BUT

In photo 3 you'll notice the say Tube-Type!!!!

I've been on to camskill and they're waiting for the Avon technical person to get back to them tomorrow. We suspect the answer will be "hybrid tyre design" or something like that. I certainly don't want to run these with tubes, as the ridges will puncture them... I've been down this road before! Hopefully they can be run as TL... and I'll get that in writing from Avon if it is the case.

I have avon rangemasters and they are fitted with tubes, they are tube type tyre and they have ribs on the inside.
These are very old and have been fitted for years with no problems
I was surprised as I though tube tyres would be smooth on the inside so not to wear the tubes.
Very long lasting are Avon Rangemasters

spencer1885 said:

I have avon rangemasters and they are fitted with tubes, they are tube type tyre and they have ribs on the inside.
These are very old and have been fitted for years with no problems
I was surprised as I though tube tyres would be smooth on the inside so not to wear the tubes.
Very long lasting are Avon Rangemasters

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Thanks for that chap. That gives me some confidence. I'll see what Avon say tomorrow, but it sounds like I'll be buying some tubes then. I seem to remember dunlop used to do some good heavy duty ones

I was tyre dealer for 15 years , and landrover operator for best part of half a century , The ribs on inside of tyre wont bother tubes a bit. The thing that gives most punctures with tubes in tubeless tyres is the QC labels , they dont matter when no tube , for which they are intended , but if you want to tube them ( allows lower pressures without losing bead seating air loss) then you need to remove the labels by buffing out and then chalking , just peeling the labels wont do it as the glue causes the tube to perish and then start losing air . The dunlop HD tubes (for AG use mostly)were usually fitted with the bigger valve stem that would not fit thru the smaller tubeless rim valve hole . But conversely you can buy a fat valve (TR25 IIRC) to run early rims tubeless, its a little bit hit and miss for the most part the rims work perfectly well , but you do get the odd one that will leak at the rivet fixings
I have run 235 85 16 BFG MT and 265/75 on 6.5 FC rims tubeless for more than 3 decades on series and defenders with no problems . Even had a high speed deflation on front of 110 when a fencing star picket went thru
sidewall on a outback graded road , and the tyre stayed on the bead . Running tyres tubeless gives cooler tyres
which leads to greater mileage, easier to fix , temporarily without even demounting tyre or removing wheel.
Slow leaks can be handled by just reinflating whereas with a tube a small puncture need instant attention to fix .
Further regarding tubes , there are alot of very low quality tubes on market , and many are multi sized , not always a good move , for obvious reasons . HTSH

As above, I am running tubeless tyres with tubes on tubeless rims, if that makes any sense. No problems from doing this at all.

Aside from your query, they look very slippery. I'd like to see a video of you nailing them on wet asphalt

cooltide said:

Aside from your query, they look very slippery. I'd like to see a video of you nailing them on wet asphalt

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Asphalt is for girls!

Id like to see what they are like in the mud!

They'll be fine on the farm, but probably lethal on wet A roads.... I'll soon find out.

I can tell you Avon rangemaster tyres are very good on road wet or dry
I throw mine around country lanes,as for mud they are as good as any unless you try to compare them to full on mud tyres.

spencer1885 said:

I can tell you Avon rangemaster tyres are very good on road wet or dry
I throw mine around country lanes,as for mud they are as good as any unless you try to compare them to full on mud tyres.

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I think just the thought of them attached to my tuned v8 that people are reflecting on

The official word from from Avon's tech person (of 25 or 30 years service):

Tube Type!

Apparently something to do with the type of rubber and the way the layers are built up - they're not designed to hold air.

One of the camskill technicians did also offer "nah, it'll be fine, I know people who run them tubeless"... which I accept, but my insurance company probably wouldn't. Tubes it is.