L322 Gearbox reluctant to change.
- Thread starter Land Ho!
- Start date
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The part number for the l322 3.0lt TD radiator is the same as that but it's 40 at the end not 50.
Here you go. They are the cheapest i have found.
Cooling & Heating - Island 4x4 - Specialists in Land Rover and Range Rover Parts and accessories for all models. UK and worldwide mail order.
I was going to update the other day to say that it has been a week or so since i changed the rad and my gearbox issues have stop......however yesterday it did it again!!??
I have no idea why chaging the rad stoped the problem for over a week only to come back again? I have been on many drives lasting well over an hour since i changed the rad and not a problem. Where as before, i could only last about 25 minutes before it played up.
The only possible thing i can think of now is that one of the pipes from the oil cooler is showing signs of weeping. It's not dripping but it looks wet/damp around where the pipe bolts on to the cooler.
Any ideas would be helpful guys.
I have no idea why chaging the rad stoped the problem for over a week only to come back again? I have been on many drives lasting well over an hour since i changed the rad and not a problem. Where as before, i could only last about 25 minutes before it played up.
The only possible thing i can think of now is that one of the pipes from the oil cooler is showing signs of weeping. It's not dripping but it looks wet/damp around where the pipe bolts on to the cooler.
Any ideas would be helpful guys.
Bemble
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 646
- Location
- Lancashire
Certainly a sensible idea to monitor what signal the transmission fluid temperature sensor is feeding back to the transmission ECU. This can either be done from underneath the vehicle at the multiplug on the transmission or under the bonnet at the ECU itself (my preference as its easier).
At the ECU you need to measure the resistance between pins 12 & 22 on the end plug (see photo) or at the transmission multiplug connector between pins 13 & 14. The graph shows the calibration used between resistance & temperature.
At the ECU you need to measure the resistance between pins 12 & 22 on the end plug (see photo) or at the transmission multiplug connector between pins 13 & 14. The graph shows the calibration used between resistance & temperature.
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Hi Bemble. Cheers for getting back to me.
I had found the post you did on another LR forum with the same pics and tried to test the ecu. However im not sure i was using the multimeter correctly lol. Electrics are not my thing!
I wasn't sure how to do it properly. I just stuck one on 12 and the other on 22....nothing moved on the multimeter. Do you need to do one at a time and have the positive touching a power source or does it jsut run off the batery in the meter? Probably sounds really dumb but i've never used one.
Anyhow, after i did it i got an error come up on the dash saying something like (forgot exactly waht it was) "DH inactive" or HR or HD??
The fault cleared itself when i started the car.
About 5 minutes ago i plugged in my All Comms to test something else but when i looked on the transmission modual it gave me 2 new faults which weren't there before i fiddled with the ecu. Not sure if it's just coincidence or not though?
I still have the same fault i've had all along which is "noise on actuator" along with 2 new ones... "EGS lost from CAN (0x52e8)" and "EGS lost from CAN (0x52f3)"
On the Transfer box it now says "internal FET fault General fault."
And on the Anti-brake (ABS) section it now says "Gear box control unit CAN error."
I've cleared the faults and will give it a couple of weeks and see if they come back.
I have a bad feeling i might have pulled a wire out somewhere on the ECU! lol
Otherwsie car drives great
mtravers950
New Member
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- 2
I had a similar problem with a 2002 autobiography. This resulted in me having the gearbox reconditioned. Now that the gearbox has been refitted after around an 8 mile drive smoke began to come out underneath front left wheel seems to b oil running down to it from the breather off the transfer box anyone encountered this problem before? And any ideas on what would cause it?
I had a similar problem with mine and thought the transmission was shot. It turned out to be the transfer box motor was knackered and was sending all sorts of signals to the ECU causing the gearbox itself to go into failsfe mode. I hope you are sitting comfortably as the motor alone was £800 plus fitting. Good Luck.
Update:
I took it down the garage yesterday to change to gearbox oil and filter and the guy took a pic of what he saw in the pan. There was lots of debri and metal filings and the magnets were rounded off. Not good.
The next day (today) i took it for a test drive to see if it fixed my limp home mode problem and it hadn't. Instead, now i have the "transmission overheat" message come up. I have never had this message pop up before. My gearbox has been playing up for months now but i just found it weird that the day after the garage changed the oil, that this message would pop up?
Either way it's shagged.
Can anyone point me in the right direction of a decent company that sells decent gearboxs or a cliff. Which ever is nearer to Surrey. Thanks.
I took it down the garage yesterday to change to gearbox oil and filter and the guy took a pic of what he saw in the pan. There was lots of debri and metal filings and the magnets were rounded off. Not good.
The next day (today) i took it for a test drive to see if it fixed my limp home mode problem and it hadn't. Instead, now i have the "transmission overheat" message come up. I have never had this message pop up before. My gearbox has been playing up for months now but i just found it weird that the day after the garage changed the oil, that this message would pop up?
Either way it's shagged.
Can anyone point me in the right direction of a decent company that sells decent gearboxs or a cliff. Which ever is nearer to Surrey. Thanks.
Bemble
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 646
- Location
- Lancashire
Regarding the transmission overheat message the radiator replacement clearly hasnt fixed the problem. You now need to look at the fluid cooler and its feed & return lines.
Regarding the metal filings in the fluid most likely the axial thrust bearing between the B & C clutch hubs has failed (very common in the 5HP24) or possibly the torque converter lock-up clutch has gone through its lining. This transmission is a piece of cake to repair and you really should have a go yourself.
Once the transmission is out, if you grab the input shaft it should have 0.2-0.4mm end float. If the endfloat is more like 2mm then the bearing mentioned above has definitely failed. Ive replaced around a dozen of these in the past year. Youre then good for another 100,000 miles.
Regarding the metal filings in the fluid most likely the axial thrust bearing between the B & C clutch hubs has failed (very common in the 5HP24) or possibly the torque converter lock-up clutch has gone through its lining. This transmission is a piece of cake to repair and you really should have a go yourself.
Once the transmission is out, if you grab the input shaft it should have 0.2-0.4mm end float. If the endfloat is more like 2mm then the bearing mentioned above has definitely failed. Ive replaced around a dozen of these in the past year. Youre then good for another 100,000 miles.
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Hi Bemble. When i had them do the oil change i madethem get the old fluid out of the torques converter by disconecting the supply line and start the car pushing it all out into a container. As well as that he told me that he had flushed the cooler and all seemed ok in there.
As for repairing, i would love to do it but i wouldn't even know how to get the thing off in the first place
Bemble
Well-Known Member
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- 646
- Location
- Lancashire
If theres abnormal levels of metallic debris in your transmissions sump its days are clearly numbered. My advice would be to get your transmission rebuilt/fixed and then address the cooling issue. Its possible that the temperature sensor in the transmission wiring loom is faulty but its much more likely to be an issue with your cooler.
If your 5HP24 has the usual bearing fault then the bearing itself only costs £6. Problem is, you then need an overhaul kit to replace all the seals and gaskets, plus a new filter, new fluid, etc. Also it would be a false economy not to have the torque converter remanufactured too (otherwise you risk cross-contaminating your new fluid) so youre looking at a bill of around £550 for parts and thats assuming your clutch plates are okay (which, to be fair, they usually are).
Overhaul kit (seals & gaskets) = £115
Re-manufactured torque converter = £215
Filter = £25
C-clutch axial needle bearing = £6
Output shaft seal = £7 (not included in kit)
3-off oil feed pipes = £40
10 litres Mobil LT71141 = £130
There isnt a cheap fix, Im afraid well, not if you do it properly anyway.
If your 5HP24 has the usual bearing fault then the bearing itself only costs £6. Problem is, you then need an overhaul kit to replace all the seals and gaskets, plus a new filter, new fluid, etc. Also it would be a false economy not to have the torque converter remanufactured too (otherwise you risk cross-contaminating your new fluid) so youre looking at a bill of around £550 for parts and thats assuming your clutch plates are okay (which, to be fair, they usually are).
Overhaul kit (seals & gaskets) = £115
Re-manufactured torque converter = £215
Filter = £25
C-clutch axial needle bearing = £6
Output shaft seal = £7 (not included in kit)
3-off oil feed pipes = £40
10 litres Mobil LT71141 = £130
There isnt a cheap fix, Im afraid well, not if you do it properly anyway.
Hello mate
I'd rather fix the cooling issues first and use the gearbox for as long as possible. It feels fine afterall.
Problem is i cant keep wasting money trying to find the the cause of the problem. The last thing i have on the list to do is a cracked Cat and an o2 sensor. LR said that the o2 sensor "could" put it into limp home mode.
How do i know if the cooler is the problem? I've asked thje garage to check it but they said theres only so much to check and weren't very helpfull on the topic.
I'd rather fix the cooling issues first and use the gearbox for as long as possible. It feels fine afterall.
Problem is i cant keep wasting money trying to find the the cause of the problem. The last thing i have on the list to do is a cracked Cat and an o2 sensor. LR said that the o2 sensor "could" put it into limp home mode.
How do i know if the cooler is the problem? I've asked thje garage to check it but they said theres only so much to check and weren't very helpfull on the topic.
hi land ho!,
i have a 2002 l322 vogue 4.4 we was travelling up hill and the gears wouldnt change down for example it was in 5 gear and as we went up hill it should drop to 4th or 3rd gear instead the car just stalled with no errors on the dash so we urned the ignition off and started it up again and it was fine until the next incline and the same thing happened i believe that its ok change up gears 1,2,3,4 etc but changing down 5,4,3,2 etc doesnt work any ideas would be much appreciated?
i have a 2002 l322 vogue 4.4 we was travelling up hill and the gears wouldnt change down for example it was in 5 gear and as we went up hill it should drop to 4th or 3rd gear instead the car just stalled with no errors on the dash so we urned the ignition off and started it up again and it was fine until the next incline and the same thing happened i believe that its ok change up gears 1,2,3,4 etc but changing down 5,4,3,2 etc doesnt work any ideas would be much appreciated?
Bemble, i just spoke to another gearbox guy and he said he does lots of the same gearboxes in the RR and Jags and he said he thinks by the sounds of it, that its the bearing inside the forward clutch. He said that they fail and when they get hot, it allows the whole thing to move around causing damage. He hasn't looked at it yet to confirm though.
Does that ring any bells to you?
Does that ring any bells to you?
Bemble
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 646
- Location
- Lancashire
Yes, he's referring to the 'usual' bearing failure that I've described above. As I mentioned previously, it can be checked without stripping the transmission by measuring the end float in the input shaft.
Right.
Just had a full gearbox rebuild to the tune of £2250.
Did it fix the problem......of course it didn't!
It's still doing the same crap it was doing before.
The gearbox people said it the bearing hadn't failed but where it sits had failed allowing the whole thing to move. They said the drum was damaged and was only a few days away before a hole would've appeared in it. They also said that some seals had gone, one of which had failed in a really weird place that he had never seen fail before. (why am i not surprised)
They also said that once they took it out, they noticed the transfer box had a tiny leak in it so they topped it up with more oil as well.
It now seems that the transfer box or the transfer box motor is the more likely culprit.
I rang LR and their tech guy said it could just be that they haven't reprogrammed the ecu inside the gearbox properly or a possible fuse in the glove box. I already checked a while ago though and is fine.
I am offcially back to hating this car again. Im taking it back on monday. He want's to test drive it when it's messing up as he couldnt before because he said i dropped it off with no petrol in it. There was 24 miles left in the tank? I thought that would be enough. He then topped up some petrol and said he did a 40 minute test drive and the problem never happened.
I don't know how people can call themselves specialists if they don't know all the things that could possibly go wrong. It's a gearbox after all not a spaceship!
I will update after i take it back on monday but if anyone knows why a fully rebuilt gearbox with no electrical faults would still mess up, let me know! lol
Just had a full gearbox rebuild to the tune of £2250.
Did it fix the problem......of course it didn't!
It's still doing the same crap it was doing before.
The gearbox people said it the bearing hadn't failed but where it sits had failed allowing the whole thing to move. They said the drum was damaged and was only a few days away before a hole would've appeared in it. They also said that some seals had gone, one of which had failed in a really weird place that he had never seen fail before. (why am i not surprised)
They also said that once they took it out, they noticed the transfer box had a tiny leak in it so they topped it up with more oil as well.
It now seems that the transfer box or the transfer box motor is the more likely culprit.
I rang LR and their tech guy said it could just be that they haven't reprogrammed the ecu inside the gearbox properly or a possible fuse in the glove box. I already checked a while ago though and is fine.
I am offcially back to hating this car again. Im taking it back on monday. He want's to test drive it when it's messing up as he couldnt before because he said i dropped it off with no petrol in it. There was 24 miles left in the tank? I thought that would be enough. He then topped up some petrol and said he did a 40 minute test drive and the problem never happened.
I don't know how people can call themselves specialists if they don't know all the things that could possibly go wrong. It's a gearbox after all not a spaceship!
I will update after i take it back on monday but if anyone knows why a fully rebuilt gearbox with no electrical faults would still mess up, let me know! lol
Found this about an hour ago. It's a long read but i thought you might like it Bemble. (and others)
This must be like sex talk for you?
EDIT: (forgot the link! lol)....................... http://jimsrover.afraid.org/rover/GTR_References/Trainnning_GearBox/NewVenture_TransferBox.pdf
After another 2 years of trolling the internet im begining to think it's the motor on the transfer box (if not an ECU problem) that is causing the problem. I was told by yet another mystical LR specialist, that the transfer box motor is used to select HI-LO gear and that is it's only function.
Well apparently if the motor fails, it can play havoc with the transfer box ECU which in turn can mess up the gearbox ECU and as a result, potentially give me gearbox issues.Which is what im experiencing.
I never knew this and was just told that if you ever want to use Low ratio, i would have to buy a new motor. (if it is actually nackered)
So i just assumed that that problem was totally seperate to my gearbox issues. Not the case!!
If i find that simply replacing the transfer box motor fixes everything, in the words of Danny Day Lwis......."THERE WILL BE BLOOD!"
This must be like sex talk for you?
EDIT: (forgot the link! lol)....................... http://jimsrover.afraid.org/rover/GTR_References/Trainnning_GearBox/NewVenture_TransferBox.pdf
After another 2 years of trolling the internet im begining to think it's the motor on the transfer box (if not an ECU problem) that is causing the problem. I was told by yet another mystical LR specialist, that the transfer box motor is used to select HI-LO gear and that is it's only function.
Well apparently if the motor fails, it can play havoc with the transfer box ECU which in turn can mess up the gearbox ECU and as a result, potentially give me gearbox issues.Which is what im experiencing.
I never knew this and was just told that if you ever want to use Low ratio, i would have to buy a new motor. (if it is actually nackered)
So i just assumed that that problem was totally seperate to my gearbox issues. Not the case!!
If i find that simply replacing the transfer box motor fixes everything, in the words of Danny Day Lwis......."THERE WILL BE BLOOD!"
Update:
Still haven't fixed it.
The other day i replaced the gearbox oil cooler thermostat and the housing for it along with the alternator belt. Didn't make a blind bit of difference.
Yesterday i replaced the sensor on the radiator (£20) because apparently they can still mess up and not show up on the computer. Great. Makes you wonder what else could be doing the same!
Anyway it didn't fix it. Although it did something though. The car lasted a little longer than usuall before playing up. When it did mess up, i put it into manual mode and it changed gear fine!! It had never done that before! Usually when the gearbox messes up, manual mode has no effect or control. So i continued to drive it and for some reason, manual and auto drive was working again? But only for another 20 minutes. Making my total drive time 1 hour and 20 minutes.
Going back in time a little bit....I decided to buy one of those lazer thermometers which arrived this morning. I wanted to check the gearbox for myself to see if it was actually overheating.....
Drove the car for 20 minutes or so to allow it get up to normal driving temperature and stuck the lazer on the sump of the gearbox. It was flicking between 102 and 106 degrees celcius. Lets just say it was 104 degrees for arguments sake.
I then drove it untill the problem occured which takes on average just under 1 hour. The problem came up so i jumped out to take a temperature reading.........it was now saying 135 degrees celcius!!
So i drove it home (about a mile) and checked the temp again. It had dropped down to about 120 for some reason. So i took her straight out again and she drove fine for 20 minutes! I thought it was sorted! But it wasn't An improvement yes but hardly fixed.
So my gearbox is actually overheating. So what does this mean? I always thought that something else was giving an ECU a dodgy reading. Apparently not?
A quick summary of things i have replaced:
New electric thermostat. (for the engine)
New radiator.
Oil cooler flushed but not replaced as told it was ok by 2 different "specialists."
New gearbox.
New Cat converter and 2 new O2 sensors. (Apparently now the other cat is on the blink)
New transfer box motor
New gearbox thermostat and thermostat housing.
New radiator sensor.
New alternator belt.
So, what the hell is making it overheat?? It doesnt overheat on the motorway. Only urban driving for 1 hour causes it to overheat.
I will get the oil cooler and oil cooler pipes replaced next just to rule them out but after that, i am all out of ideas.
Surely i can't be the only person this has happened to?
I am literally at the end of my teather now. It's starting to effect my mental health and social life. I work 15 hours a day on the stock markets so i have plenty of stress as it is. I really am close to tears now. People are even saying to me that my car is turning me into a diferent person. People keep telling me to sell it but i can't. I couldn't do that to someone else. I would hate for someone else to go through what i am. Im not an arsehole like the guy who sold it to me was. It's my problem and i want to fix it.
2 gearbox spealists say they have no idea. 2 Indies say they have no idea and now even Land Rover are saying they have no idea and that im on my own!
Im begging for anyone to come forward who has had the same problem and share your results. It seems that lots of people on here have had the same problem but they never reply to let others know what fixed it!!!!!!!!!! Bloody annoying!!!!!
HELP HELP HELP!!!!!
Still haven't fixed it.
The other day i replaced the gearbox oil cooler thermostat and the housing for it along with the alternator belt. Didn't make a blind bit of difference.
Yesterday i replaced the sensor on the radiator (£20) because apparently they can still mess up and not show up on the computer. Great. Makes you wonder what else could be doing the same!
Anyway it didn't fix it. Although it did something though. The car lasted a little longer than usuall before playing up. When it did mess up, i put it into manual mode and it changed gear fine!! It had never done that before! Usually when the gearbox messes up, manual mode has no effect or control. So i continued to drive it and for some reason, manual and auto drive was working again? But only for another 20 minutes. Making my total drive time 1 hour and 20 minutes.
Going back in time a little bit....I decided to buy one of those lazer thermometers which arrived this morning. I wanted to check the gearbox for myself to see if it was actually overheating.....
Drove the car for 20 minutes or so to allow it get up to normal driving temperature and stuck the lazer on the sump of the gearbox. It was flicking between 102 and 106 degrees celcius. Lets just say it was 104 degrees for arguments sake.
I then drove it untill the problem occured which takes on average just under 1 hour. The problem came up so i jumped out to take a temperature reading.........it was now saying 135 degrees celcius!!
So i drove it home (about a mile) and checked the temp again. It had dropped down to about 120 for some reason. So i took her straight out again and she drove fine for 20 minutes! I thought it was sorted! But it wasn't
An improvement yes but hardly fixed. So my gearbox is actually overheating. So what does this mean? I always thought that something else was giving an ECU a dodgy reading. Apparently not?
A quick summary of things i have replaced:
New electric thermostat. (for the engine)
New radiator.
Oil cooler flushed but not replaced as told it was ok by 2 different "specialists."
New gearbox.
New Cat converter and 2 new O2 sensors. (Apparently now the other cat is on the blink)
New transfer box motor
New gearbox thermostat and thermostat housing.
New radiator sensor.
New alternator belt.
So, what the hell is making it overheat?? It doesnt overheat on the motorway. Only urban driving for 1 hour causes it to overheat.
I will get the oil cooler and oil cooler pipes replaced next just to rule them out but after that, i am all out of ideas.
Surely i can't be the only person this has happened to?
I am literally at the end of my teather now. It's starting to effect my mental health and social life. I work 15 hours a day on the stock markets so i have plenty of stress as it is. I really am close to tears now. People are even saying to me that my car is turning me into a diferent person. People keep telling me to sell it but i can't. I couldn't do that to someone else. I would hate for someone else to go through what i am. Im not an arsehole like the guy who sold it to me was. It's my problem and i want to fix it.
2 gearbox spealists say they have no idea. 2 Indies say they have no idea and now even Land Rover are saying they have no idea and that im on my own!
Im begging for anyone to come forward who has had the same problem and share your results. It seems that lots of people on here have had the same problem but they never reply to let others know what fixed it!!!!!!!!!! Bloody annoying!!!!!
HELP HELP HELP!!!!!
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