Is she Dead yet? 200 TDI defender. - Poorly engine? - 3.1 engine swap?

Looking for opinions. So my 200 TDI is running absolutely fine but has been struggling to start - Im wondering if its time to replace the engine.... read on.

Alternator is the likely culprit from my tests for the starting struggle, i replaced the starter motor two years ago with a good one and the battery is also a good one so the alternator is being replaced, i will attempt to recon the original and keep it as a spare. Whilst she was in the shed i was giving her a good look over and the glow plug on the first cylinder is snapped and can be pulled out of the engine - so i have a set of those to replace when i put the new alternator on. I don't think any of these things will result in wild improvements but to my knowledge it runs like a nicely bedded in 200 tdi should! I recently replaced the injector nozzles and most other parts have been replaced, the engine and alternator and HP fuel pump are about the only original bits left i would imagine.

The actual problem

So in the summer i washed the head and block thoroughly with soapy water and had it shining like a new one, the idea being i would be easier to trace any leaks or issues. When i looked at the engine pretty much from around the head gasket down wards there was oil coming out - it also looked like oil had found a way out around the filler cap. - The oil was changed in the summer probably less than 1000 miles ago and was filled to the correct level. Despite the obvious leaks the dipstick does not show an alarming drop in oil.

Now oils clearly leaking out ( its not appearing by magic is it. ) so does this mean my head gaskets gone?
- I havent noticed any loss of power ( she'll get to 70 - 75mph flat knacker and with a good run and a favourable wind will get to 85 just about ) she'll accelerate up some steep hills in fourth. There is no white smoke, there is no mayonaise, coolant and oil look the right colors, heater matrix is working a treat.

Symptoms are oil all over the block, so if it is the head gasket how much should i pay to have it put right, im very handy and have a fully equipped workshop but have never done a head gasket - is it that difficult? Could you follow a youtuvbe video through it type deal?

Second symptom of a worn engine i have is that when you take the oil filler cap off its you can hear the rythmic thud of the pistons drumming up and down - if you put your hand over the filler cap hole you can feel air being pushed about - is this normal? i don't for instance see any smoke.

As far as i can tell the vehicles just as terribly and terrifyingly fun to drive as it ever was but im wondering if its going to come to a crunching end if i ignore these unhealthy symptoms.

there are a few chaps on ebay who will recon the engine for about £1450 including fitting which seems quite reasonable, including collecting the vehicle has anyone had any experience or better prices? local company wanted £2220 for a rebuild.

Im not brassick but shouldn't really pour much more into this vehicle than i already have; though i suspect i will.

Alternatively does anyone know anything about putting a 3.1 engine from a vauxhaull monterey ( basically an izuzu trooper) into a 200 tdi 90? As i have a vehicle here that has a brill engine and gearbox which will be getting crushed shortly which i could use at no cost.

90deftdi said:

there are a few chaps on ebay who will recon the engine for about £1450 including fitting which seems quite reasonable, including collecting the vehicle has anyone had any experience or better prices?

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If you go down this route you might lose your car and any monies paid up front.

There have been a few instances where peeps have been caught out by scams on the fleebay. I'd tell you to search on the forum for them, but search is still broked.

Shimsteriom said:

If you go down this route you might lose your car and any monies paid up front.

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Is that what happened to you? Looking for personal experiences/ recommendations - My own heads good enough at making up reasons not to stick my hand in my pocket!

90deftdi said:

Is that what happened to you?!

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Nope, just a piece of friendly advice.

Didnt mean to come accross arsey! - Im rather wearing of loading my money pit onto the back of a van and waving it off never to be seen again! i hear you!

Get a compression check done, circa 400psi + is good.
Head gasket is easy job, it's a pushrod engine with no cambelt to disturb or timing to reset. Just nuts and bolts but you will need a torque wrench for the head bolts at least.
You need to establish exactly where the oil is coming from, could just be leaky cyclone breather O ring for example.

Pop the head off and take a look at the bores, this will tell you how healthy or otherwise the engine is.
One of the easiest engines to remove the cyl head, everything is big and chunky and pretty much unfcukable much like diana abbot!

lynall said:

everything is big and chunky and pretty much unfcukable much like diana abbot!

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Funniest thing I heard all day.

200Tdi head is a not a bad job - the head is heavy ish, and you need to be methodical, but IMHO, it is eminently DIYable...

You'll deffo need a torque wrench as per Flossie's post .... but you should have at least one of them anyway .....

re your starting issue ...... when was the cambelt last changed ? I'm wondering if the timing is a bit out either due an old belt stretching, or a new belt being fitted a tooth out.....

Thanks for the suggestions lads!

I do have a compression tester somewhere kicking about but its of the bung type you jam in to spark plug holes and im not entirely certain where to shove it in her... ( the car not diane abbott ) i would have thought it might shove in to an injector hole.. ( afraid ill have all the joys of sheering injector studs again though ). But 400 PSI seems a lump - Watched a youtube video and he was satisfied with 350 odd psi ( Britannica restorations ). Nobody seems to have any experience of the people offering to rebuild engines, as if its needed i would like to know more about that, is there anyone on the forums who wants a winter project for some beer money?

I think the cam belt was done at about 100K - I haven't done the cam belt i bought all the bits to do it when i replaced the coolant pump/ viscous fan but i think it started raining and the idea of four more bolts put me off - i really should have done it as now ill have to drop the coolant to get in and do it... Maybe now wouldn't be a bad time to be fair - could sort my cam belt and tappet clearances this evening.

Think my plan of action so far is to clean the block off again and give her a good hot supper see where the oils coming from though it looks like its coming out between the head and block in a few places ( which i cant understand why the level hast dropped markedly ) I think im up to the job of doing the head, been skiving from work and watching youtube videos - i,m self employed so i;m only letting myself down, maybe landrover owners can speak to diane and see if we will qualify for some kind of government hand out for time lost from work due to repairs... i doubt it ha!

Plan so far:
Fiddle with tappets and do cam belt; it cant hurt.
Clean engine block. See if its coming from somewhere silly.
Compression test ( probably take it somewhere )
Review options.

The only thing that wont have been done on this landy will be the running train, so part of me is tempted to do it so its fully renewed but its such a money pit already, the rechasis was double the cost quoted to me which ate my house deposit and i cant let this vehicle do that again! If i was going to get the engine and gear box done i feel like i may as well just throw the towel in and get it tarted up. But as you can tell im trying to talk myself out of that without much success.

edit to add - You know you have screwed priorities when you start considering a different ration tran box for a car that isnt currently running *smile through the madness!*

90deftdi said:

I think the cam belt was done at about 100K

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Ok, but what's the mileage now ?

90deftdi said:

Im not brassick but shouldn't really pour much more into this vehicle than i already have; though i suspect i will.

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Get the vehicle on agreed value cover, given the investment you've made into it ........

90deftdi said:

there are a few chaps on ebay who will recon the engine for about £1450 including fitting which seems quite reasonable, including collecting the vehicle has anyone had any experience or better prices? local company wanted £2220 for a rebuild.

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As Shimmy said above in post #2 - be VERY careful - it's cheap for a reason - if it seems to good to be true, there's your answer! It is !!

from what you have said, it appears you're a long way from needing a rebuild .... but there are other options, one of which you mention - the Isuzu ..... IIRC,

www.MDengineering.co.uk

do adaptor plates for various transplants.....

Have you checked the inj pump timing? proper tools are nice but eyeball up the flywheel housing drain hole to find the groove and an old drill bit in the front will tell you if its near enough, even the slkightest bit retarded (no more abbot jokes!) can make them seem limp (see there it is again!) at start up.

Alao on the 200 the earth straps are dog ****e, best to make new straight from battery neg to a flywheel housing bolt and another striaght from battery neg to the chassis itself, cross memebr bolts are nice and handy.

90deftdi said:

Second symptom of a worn engine i have is that when you take the oil filler cap off its you can hear the rythmic thud of the pistons drumming up and down - if you put your hand over the filler cap hole you can feel air being pushed about - is this normal? i don't for instance see any smoke.

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Yes a certain amount of crankcase back pressure is normal , too much is a sign of worn piston rings which will be accompanied by blue haze/smoke (burning oil) when badly worn.
As your engine isn't smoking or using too much oil I would hazard a guess it is perfectly all right.

Is the oil leak you have not running out of your filler cap or rocker gasket down to the head and dispersing along the seam? (New filler cap O ring / rocker gasket )

Personally I think you should just investigate your oil leak a little further , fix it and carry on enjoying the wonderful 200tdi engine.

90deftdi said:

Thanks for the suggestions lads!

I do have a compression tester somewhere kicking about but its of the bung type you jam in to spark plug holes and im not entirely certain where to shove it in her... ( the car not diane abbott ) i would have thought it might shove in to an injector hole.. ( afraid ill have all the joys of sheering injector studs again though ). But 400 PSI seems a lump - Watched a youtube video and he was satisfied with 350 odd psi ( Britannica restorations ). Nobody seems to have any experience of the people offering to rebuild engines, as if its needed i would like to know more about that, is there anyone on the forums who wants a winter project for some beer money?

I think the cam belt was done at about 100K - I haven't done the cam belt i bought all the bits to do it when i replaced the coolant pump/ viscous fan but i think it started raining and the idea of four more bolts put me off - i really should have done it as now ill have to drop the coolant to get in and do it... Maybe now wouldn't be a bad time to be fair - could sort my cam belt and tappet clearances this evening.

Think my plan of action so far is to clean the block off again and give her a good hot supper see where the oils coming from though it looks like its coming out between the head and block in a few places ( which i cant understand why the level hast dropped markedly ) I think im up to the job of doing the head, been skiving from work and watching youtube videos - i,m self employed so i;m only letting myself down, maybe landrover owners can speak to diane and see if we will qualify for some kind of government hand out for time lost from work due to repairs... i doubt it ha!

Plan so far:
Fiddle with tappets and do cam belt; it cant hurt.
Clean engine block. See if its coming from somewhere silly.
Compression test ( probably take it somewhere )
Review options.

The only thing that wont have been done on this landy will be the running train, so part of me is tempted to do it so its fully renewed but its such a money pit already, the rechasis was double the cost quoted to me which ate my house deposit and i cant let this vehicle do that again! If i was going to get the engine and gear box done i feel like i may as well just throw the towel in and get it tarted up. But as you can tell im trying to talk myself out of that without much success.

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Sounds like it's a petrol compression tester, don't use that!
Yes, usual place to test is the glowplugs holes, thread is 10mm X 1mm pitch iirc.

Headgasket on one of those is an easy job.

undo the filler cap and rest it on the filler hole, if it dances around like a hooker on crack then that is too much crankcase pressure.

ideally you don't want any, as the PCV should deal with any that is lingering.

I think you’ve got your order of play the wrong way round. As already said do the basic checks - compression test from the glow plug holes and check the oil pressure. These are basic tests that give a good indication if a bottom end rebuild is looking likely.

If there’s oil leaking from between the head and block stands to reason the head gasket needs changing. This is a simple job and you can do the timing at the same time.

Have you changed the rocker cover gasket and half moons? It’s such a common cause of oil down the block and sometimes hard to tell, especially is blown about by the fan.

What exactly is your starting issue? You sure it’s the battery and not air in the fuel system? Did you check the charging voltage before assuming it’s the alternator?

Thanks for the reposes gents!

Im going to get a compression test done and check the oil pressure - I don't think my filler cap will dance around like diane abbot on crack but will try the test and film the results.

Engines now at about 170K which should just be nicely bedded in for a 200 tdi. I had a ride in someones who has had the whole running train fully rebuilt and while he was capped with it i thought it sounded bloody awful though i didn't get to drive it!.

Im not convinced i need a rebuild and ive talked my self out of the idea - for reference quotes i have had from independent and known reputable people have been about £2200 inc vat. or there about.

The alternator is shot - the out put voltage is a little low - you get away with it in day time driving - but ive been doing more nighttime driving and its been raining for the past two weeks - when you have the headlights on its barely coping - headlights and wipers and the output is well under. Head lights, wipers, blowers and heated seats... and she's not happy at all - I had the exact issue a few months ago because my alternator belt had begun to slip - i tightened it up and all was fine, i also put a plug in the fag lighter tester in which said the same as the multi meter - output too low.

Vehicle is on a galv chassis - all earths replaced and bolts - new genuine starter motor - before the alternator started to die it would roar into life first turn of the key. Only other quirk with it is its always run a touch hot for as long as i have had it - needle 3/4 of the way up the gauge, i replaced the viscous fan and the water pump and the heater matrix and the radiator, and the intercooler one weekend and that made no difference to the running temp.

So this afternoon i have a few hours spare to go and do the tappets, which ive been meaning to do for months, i also might do the cam belt but ill see where i get to - as far as im concerned this is just maintenance work

Rocker cover gasket has been replaced a few months back - but i lost the half moons so never replaced them which really annoyed me!

Im also going to go round and replace any o rings i can find