Interesting............

This site contains affiliate links for which LandyZone may be compensated if you make a purchase.
In news:e6c1735c4e%[email protected],
beamendsltd <[email protected]> wittered on forthwith;
> Interesting article, though LR and Jags profit levels seem to
> have swapped over!
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5284092.stm
>
> Jag and/or LR back in private (sensible) hands - could be good.....


Could also be the next MG Rover debacle though...


--
Pete M - Using the Scouse Side of the Force -
Range Rover Vogue EFI x 2
OMF#9

"This is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules"


 
Pete M <[email protected]> uttered
summat worrerz funny about:
> In news:e6c1735c4e%[email protected],
> beamendsltd <[email protected]> wittered on forthwith;
>> Interesting article, though LR and Jags profit levels seem to
>> have swapped over!
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5284092.stm
>>
>> Jag and/or LR back in private (sensible) hands - could be good.....

>
> Could also be the next MG Rover debacle though...


Bring it on I say. I've seen nothing to suggest otherwise so far.

Lee D


 

"beamendsltd" wrote
> Interesting article, though LR and Jags profit levels seem to
> have swapped over!
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5284092.stm
>
> Jag and/or LR back in private (sensible) hands - could be good.....
>


I would expect that would be the end for Jaguar as I can't see JCB having
the money to fund a complete new car program that is desperately needed at
Jaguar.
The problem is that Ford management, who are sales driven, did not
understand the upmarket niche that Jaguar had and they produced the "X"
type, which everyone knows is a ponced up Mondeo, to up sales/market share
which is not what Jaguar should be about, and that error of judgement has
done serious harm to Jaguar's hard won high end reputation. They should not
produce cars below the 5 series level and should be competing with high end
Mercedes/BMWs/Porches.

All Jaguar cars need a complete and radical redesign to get a modern theme
for their range and away from the retro look, another Ford mistake**, that
has also harmed their sales especially to new customers. The new XK does not
go far enough in this direction either IME and the XJ is so like the old
model it's only the height that distinguishes them. Who want's to buy a car
that looks 10+ years old before it's delivered. (other than a Defender of
course!) :)

It's a shame BMW aren't in the market if the Mini and RR are anything to
judge by, at least their management understand a Brand's niche and how to
exploit it.

**perhaps they listened to too many old owners and didn't have the balls to
bite the bullet.
--
Regards
Bob H




 
In news:[email protected],
Bob Hobden <[email protected]> wittered on forthwith;
> "beamendsltd" wrote
>> Interesting article, though LR and Jags profit levels seem to
>> have swapped over!
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5284092.stm
>>
>> Jag and/or LR back in private (sensible) hands - could be good.....
>>

>
> I would expect that would be the end for Jaguar as I can't see JCB
> having the money to fund a complete new car program that is
> desperately needed at Jaguar.
> The problem is that Ford management, who are sales driven, did not
> understand the upmarket niche that Jaguar had and they produced the
> "X" type, which everyone knows is a ponced up Mondeo, to up
> sales/market share which is not what Jaguar should be about, and that
> error of judgement has done serious harm to Jaguar's hard won high
> end reputation. They should not produce cars below the 5 series level
> and should be competing with high end Mercedes/BMWs/Porches.


The X type is a good car though, the fact that about 35% of it is based on
the Mondeo shouldn't be that much of a problem really. If platform sharing
was that much of an issue then no-one would buy anything from VW / Seat /
Skoda etc.
>
> All Jaguar cars need a complete and radical redesign to get a modern
> theme for their range and away from the retro look, another Ford
> mistake**, that has also harmed their sales especially to new
> customers. The new XK does not go far enough in this direction either
> IME and the XJ is so like the old model it's only the height that
> distinguishes them. Who want's to buy a car that looks 10+ years old
> before it's delivered. (other than a Defender of course!) :)


I take it you've not driven or been in the current XJ? I'd love one,
besides, this is a Land Rover group and I suspect most of us in here are
either driving something designed in 1948 or something from 1970, of course
this is a bonus with a Landy...
>
> It's a shame BMW aren't in the market if the Mini and RR are anything
> to judge by, at least their management understand a Brand's niche and
> how to exploit it.


`Exploit it` being the operative term. I'm not a fan of BMWs at all, I've
owned a few, driven a lot more, but if they're not the "M" models they tend
to be vastly overhyped imo.
>
> **perhaps they listened to too many old owners and didn't have the
> balls to bite the bullet.


Alternatively they could have built something as hideous as the E60 BMW.


--
Pete M - Using the Scouse Side of the Force -
Range Rover Vogue EFI x 2
OMF#9

"This is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules"


 
Yeah and if I were young enough and had the money I would drive a Morgan :)


--
þT

L'autisme c'est moi

"Space folds, and folded space bends, and bent folded space contracts and
expands unevenly in every way unconcievable except to someone who does not
believe in the laws of mathematics"

"Pete M" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> In news:[email protected],
>
> I take it you've not driven or been in the current XJ? I'd love one,
> besides, this is a Land Rover group and I suspect most of us in here are
> either driving something designed in 1948 or something from 1970, of

course
> this is a bonus with a Landy...
> >



 

"Pete M" wrote after Bob Hobden wittered on forthwith;
>>
>> I would expect that would be the end for Jaguar as I can't see JCB
>> having the money to fund a complete new car program that is
>> desperately needed at Jaguar.
>> The problem is that Ford management, who are sales driven, did not
>> understand the upmarket niche that Jaguar had and they produced the
>> "X" type, which everyone knows is a ponced up Mondeo, to up
>> sales/market share which is not what Jaguar should be about, and that
>> error of judgement has done serious harm to Jaguar's hard won high
>> end reputation. They should not produce cars below the 5 series level
>> and should be competing with high end Mercedes/BMWs/Porches.

>
> The X type is a good car though, the fact that about 35% of it is based on
> the Mondeo shouldn't be that much of a problem really. If platform sharing
> was that much of an issue then no-one would buy anything from VW / Seat /
> Skoda etc.
>

Good car or not, it's not a good car for Jaguar, they should not be trying
to break into the lower cost mass market with a car that is not a
thoroughbred Jaguar. As for those manufacturers you mention they are mass
market manufacturers, a completely different ball game to where Jaguar
should be.

>>
>> All Jaguar cars need a complete and radical redesign to get a modern
>> theme for their range and away from the retro look, another Ford
>> mistake**, that has also harmed their sales especially to new
>> customers. The new XK does not go far enough in this direction either
>> IME and the XJ is so like the old model it's only the height that
>> distinguishes them. Who want's to buy a car that looks 10+ years old
>> before it's delivered. (other than a Defender of course!) :)

>
> I take it you've not driven or been in the current XJ? I'd love one,
> besides, this is a Land Rover group and I suspect most of us in here are
> either driving something designed in 1948 or something from 1970, of
> course this is a bonus with a Landy...
>

No I haven't, whilst I accept it's a good car nobody is buying it because
it looks no different to what went before and there are cars as good or
better and much more modern looking out there.
>>
>> It's a shame BMW aren't in the market if the Mini and RR are anything
>> to judge by, at least their management understand a Brand's niche and
>> how to exploit it.

>
> `Exploit it` being the operative term. I'm not a fan of BMWs at all, I've
> owned a few, driven a lot more, but if they're not the "M" models they
> tend to be vastly overhyped imo.
>

Personal choice, I like them which is why I own a 330i Sport.
>>
>> **perhaps they listened to too many old owners and didn't have the
>> balls to bite the bullet.

>
> Alternatively they could have built something as hideous as the E60 BMW.
>

I think the 5 series is about the best looking car of that size there is
and it grows on me more as time passes. It's very colour specific though, as
are all the Bangle designs, and looks horrid in black but then so do a lot
of other cars. Not so keen on the new 3 series though, especially at the
rear.
I notice quite a few new cars seem to have been Bangled so perhaps he was a
leader in design.
--
Regards
Bob
"Never get so busy making a living
that you forget to make a life" Anon.
..


 
Bob Hobden <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny about:

> Good car or not, it's not a good car for Jaguar, they should not be
> trying to break into the lower cost mass market with a car that is
> not a thoroughbred Jaguar. As for those manufacturers you mention
> they are mass market manufacturers, a completely different ball game
> to where Jaguar should be.



Er.... the Jag lump I put in Percy has Leyland stamped all over it

Makes a Mundano chassis an improvement I'd say

;-)

Lee D


 
> I think the 5 series is about the best looking car of that size there is
> and it grows on me more as time passes. It's very colour specific though, as
> are all the Bangle designs, and looks horrid in black but then so do a lot
> of other cars. Not so keen on the new 3 series though, especially at the
> rear.
> I notice quite a few new cars seem to have been Bangled so perhaps he was a
> leader in design.


What I don't understand (as a big BMW fan) is that I read an article
many years ago in the [official] BMW Magazine - an interview with
Bangle. He categorically stated that he wanted to get away from the
"One sausage in three sizes" designs of the BMW 'series'. Now I find
them harder to tell apart than ever before!

I have to admit despite being initially weary, the current 5-series is
now really coming into its own in terms of design (tho it does have to
have the right wheels as some of them are awful) I wouldn't agree with
the other poster who said anything but the M-series are crap - tho
personally I would stay clear of any BMW that doesn't have at least a
straight-6!

I think many great designs are unpopular to start with because they are
'different' - even the D3 is growing on me now!

Matt
 

"Lee_D" wrote
> Bob Hobden uttered summat worrerz funny about:
>
>> Good car or not, it's not a good car for Jaguar, they should not be
>> trying to break into the lower cost mass market with a car that is
>> not a thoroughbred Jaguar. As for those manufacturers you mention
>> they are mass market manufacturers, a completely different ball game
>> to where Jaguar should be.

>
>
> Er.... the Jag lump I put in Percy has Leyland stamped all over it
>
> Makes a Mundano chassis an improvement I'd say
>


True, but then BL had crap management and there was no way they would
understand what was needed and how to achieve it, they didn't have the
balls, had their heads in the sand and let possible world domination slip
away. (same problem with our motorcycle industry too)

--
Regards
Bob H


 
In message <[email protected]>
"Bob Hobden" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> "beamendsltd" wrote
> > Interesting article, though LR and Jags profit levels seem to
> > have swapped over!
> >
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5284092.stm
> >
> > Jag and/or LR back in private (sensible) hands - could be good.....
> >

>
> I would expect that would be the end for Jaguar as I can't see JCB having
> the money to fund a complete new car program that is desperately needed at
> Jaguar.


I wouldn't bet on that, JCB's, tractors etc are way ahead of cars on
expensive toys - I'll bet the FastTrack cost more to develop than
any Jag. JCB even do their own engines now (since Perkins was bought
by Catapillar).

> The problem is that Ford management, who are sales driven, did not
> understand the upmarket niche that Jaguar had and they produced the "X"
> type, which everyone knows is a ponced up Mondeo, to up sales/market share
> which is not what Jaguar should be about, and that error of judgement has
> done serious harm to Jaguar's hard won high end reputation. They should not
> produce cars below the 5 series level and should be competing with high end
> Mercedes/BMWs/Porches.


Indeed - "platform engineering" is the best way to destroy a marques
identity (bean counters not being able to take into account brand
loyalty again!).

>
> All Jaguar cars need a complete and radical redesign to get a modern theme
> for their range and away from the retro look, another Ford mistake**, that
> has also harmed their sales especially to new customers. The new XK does not
> go far enough in this direction either IME and the XJ is so like the old
> model it's only the height that distinguishes them. Who want's to buy a car
> that looks 10+ years old before it's delivered. (other than a Defender of
> course!) :)


I couldn't comment there - "posh" cars do nothing for me I'm affraid!

>
> It's a shame BMW aren't in the market if the Mini and RR are anything to
> judge by, at least their management understand a Brand's niche and how to
> exploit it.
>


Don't give BMW too much credit for the so-called "New Mini" - a lot
of the basic work had been done before they got involved - and don't
forget they had a lot of influence in the later stages of Freelander...

> **perhaps they listened to too many old owners and didn't have the balls to
> bite the bullet.


May be, but also they may well have done too much "off-the-shelf"
engineering, i.e. using existing components when not really approriate,
e.g. "new" Defender!

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive
 
On Sunday, in article <49ecfa5c4e%[email protected]>
[email protected] "beamendsltd" wrote:

> In message <[email protected]>
> "Bob Hobden" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> > "beamendsltd" wrote
> > > Interesting article, though LR and Jags profit levels seem to
> > > have swapped over!
> > >
> > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5284092.stm
> > >
> > > Jag and/or LR back in private (sensible) hands - could be good.....
> > >

> >
> > I would expect that would be the end for Jaguar as I can't see JCB having
> > the money to fund a complete new car program that is desperately needed at
> > Jaguar.

>
> I wouldn't bet on that, JCB's, tractors etc are way ahead of cars on
> expensive toys - I'll bet the FastTrack cost more to develop than
> any Jag. JCB even do their own engines now (since Perkins was bought
> by Catapillar).


It feels slightly odd that JCB didn't want Land Rover, but the Defender
isn't Land Rover any more. Though after picking up a World Land Speed
Record, Jaguar is a better fit to the headlines. We maybe don't
appreciate how big the construction machinery business is.

Anyway, JCB doesn't need to buy Land Rover. They've got the engineering
resources and the branding to design their own version of the Defender.
Whether anyone could meet current safety and enviromental standards
without abandoning the basic concept, I'm not sure.

There's other reasons why it might be a bad idea for JCB to get into
that business, but I don't have any qualms about their engineering.


--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."
 
In message <[email protected]>
[email protected] ("David G. Bell") wrote:

> On Sunday, in article <49ecfa5c4e%[email protected]>
> [email protected] "beamendsltd" wrote:
>
> > In message <[email protected]>
> > "Bob Hobden" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > "beamendsltd" wrote
> > > > Interesting article, though LR and Jags profit levels seem to
> > > > have swapped over!
> > > >
> > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5284092.stm
> > > >
> > > > Jag and/or LR back in private (sensible) hands - could be good.....
> > > >
> > >
> > > I would expect that would be the end for Jaguar as I can't see JCB having
> > > the money to fund a complete new car program that is desperately needed at
> > > Jaguar.

> >
> > I wouldn't bet on that, JCB's, tractors etc are way ahead of cars on
> > expensive toys - I'll bet the FastTrack cost more to develop than
> > any Jag. JCB even do their own engines now (since Perkins was bought
> > by Catapillar).

>
> It feels slightly odd that JCB didn't want Land Rover, but the Defender
> isn't Land Rover any more. Though after picking up a World Land Speed
> Record, Jaguar is a better fit to the headlines. We maybe don't
> appreciate how big the construction machinery business is.
>
> Anyway, JCB doesn't need to buy Land Rover. They've got the engineering
> resources and the branding to design their own version of the Defender.
> Whether anyone could meet current safety and enviromental standards
> without abandoning the basic concept, I'm not sure.
>
> There's other reasons why it might be a bad idea for JCB to get into
> that business, but I don't have any qualms about their engineering.
>
>


Apparently JCB have made more than one attempt to get Defender -
that name alone must be extrememly valuable.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive
 
Not forgeting that Caterpilar is dealing with Land Rover genuine spare parts
logistics so JCB may be able to put its foot in a competitor's business by
buying Land Rover.

Take care
Pantelis

"beamendsltd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:e492f05d4e%[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>
> [email protected] ("David G. Bell") wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, in article <49ecfa5c4e%[email protected]>
> > [email protected] "beamendsltd" wrote:
> >
> > > In message <[email protected]>
> > > "Bob Hobden" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > "beamendsltd" wrote
> > > > > Interesting article, though LR and Jags profit levels seem to
> > > > > have swapped over!
> > > > >
> > > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5284092.stm
> > > > >
> > > > > Jag and/or LR back in private (sensible) hands - could be

good.....
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I would expect that would be the end for Jaguar as I can't see JCB

having
> > > > the money to fund a complete new car program that is desperately

needed at
> > > > Jaguar.
> > >
> > > I wouldn't bet on that, JCB's, tractors etc are way ahead of cars on
> > > expensive toys - I'll bet the FastTrack cost more to develop than
> > > any Jag. JCB even do their own engines now (since Perkins was bought
> > > by Catapillar).

> >
> > It feels slightly odd that JCB didn't want Land Rover, but the Defender
> > isn't Land Rover any more. Though after picking up a World Land Speed
> > Record, Jaguar is a better fit to the headlines. We maybe don't
> > appreciate how big the construction machinery business is.
> >
> > Anyway, JCB doesn't need to buy Land Rover. They've got the engineering
> > resources and the branding to design their own version of the Defender.
> > Whether anyone could meet current safety and enviromental standards
> > without abandoning the basic concept, I'm not sure.
> >
> > There's other reasons why it might be a bad idea for JCB to get into
> > that business, but I don't have any qualms about their engineering.
> >
> >

>
> Apparently JCB have made more than one attempt to get Defender -
> that name alone must be extrememly valuable.
>
> Richard
> --
> www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
> RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
> Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive



 
In message <[email protected]>
"Pantelis Giamarellos" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Not forgeting that Caterpilar is dealing with Land Rover genuine spare parts
> logistics so JCB may be able to put its foot in a competitor's business by
> buying Land Rover.
>
> Take care
> Pantelis


If Catapillars handling of LR spares is anything to go by, JCB would
must be laughing themselves silly!
Incidently, Unipart do the "Classic" scheme (i.e. Range Rover Classic
and "200Tdi" Discovery I), and *everybody* is laughing at that (or
would be if it wasn't so sad) - a great shame as before BMW dumped
then Unipart were pretty dammed good, and an awful lot of Series
parts got lost forever when Unipart stopped ordering, notably
6-cylinder parts.

Richard

>
> "beamendsltd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:e492f05d4e%[email protected]...
> > In message <[email protected]>
> > [email protected] ("David G. Bell") wrote:
> >
> > > On Sunday, in article <49ecfa5c4e%[email protected]>
> > > [email protected] "beamendsltd" wrote:
> > >
> > > > In message <[email protected]>
> > > > "Bob Hobden" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "beamendsltd" wrote
> > > > > > Interesting article, though LR and Jags profit levels seem to
> > > > > > have swapped over!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5284092.stm
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jag and/or LR back in private (sensible) hands - could be

> good.....
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I would expect that would be the end for Jaguar as I can't see JCB

> having
> > > > > the money to fund a complete new car program that is desperately

> needed at
> > > > > Jaguar.
> > > >
> > > > I wouldn't bet on that, JCB's, tractors etc are way ahead of cars on
> > > > expensive toys - I'll bet the FastTrack cost more to develop than
> > > > any Jag. JCB even do their own engines now (since Perkins was bought
> > > > by Catapillar).
> > >
> > > It feels slightly odd that JCB didn't want Land Rover, but the Defender
> > > isn't Land Rover any more. Though after picking up a World Land Speed
> > > Record, Jaguar is a better fit to the headlines. We maybe don't
> > > appreciate how big the construction machinery business is.
> > >
> > > Anyway, JCB doesn't need to buy Land Rover. They've got the engineering
> > > resources and the branding to design their own version of the Defender.
> > > Whether anyone could meet current safety and enviromental standards
> > > without abandoning the basic concept, I'm not sure.
> > >
> > > There's other reasons why it might be a bad idea for JCB to get into
> > > that business, but I don't have any qualms about their engineering.
> > >
> > >

> >
> > Apparently JCB have made more than one attempt to get Defender -
> > that name alone must be extrememly valuable.
> >
> > Richard
> > --
> > www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
> > RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
> > Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive

>
>


--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Lib Dems - Townies keeping comedy alive
 

"beamendsltd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1cc6645e4e%[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>
> "Pantelis Giamarellos" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Not forgeting that Caterpilar is dealing with Land Rover genuine spare

parts
> > logistics so JCB may be able to put its foot in a competitor's business

by
> > buying Land Rover.
> >
> > Take care
> > Pantelis

>
> If Catapillars handling of LR spares is anything to go by, JCB would
> must be laughing themselves silly!
> Incidently, Unipart do the "Classic" scheme (i.e. Range Rover Classic
> and "200Tdi" Discovery I), and *everybody* is laughing at that (or
> would be if it wasn't so sad) - a great shame as before BMW dumped
> then Unipart were pretty dammed good, and an awful lot of Series
> parts got lost forever when Unipart stopped ordering, notably
> 6-cylinder parts.
>
> Richard
>

Unipart were not just 'pretty damn good', they were brilliant, and even
the senior management were accessible. None of this "It's on back order sir,
we don't know when". Speak to the right person and it would be there the
next day!

Martin


 
Oily <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz
funny about:
> Unipart were not just 'pretty damn good', they were brilliant, and
> even the senior management were accessible. None of this "It's on
> back order sir, we don't know when". Speak to the right person and it
> would be there the next day!
>
> Martin


Indeed , when I were a nipper Dad had his Rangie in for a ignition switch,
they quoted 6 weeks at the dealers as there were none anywhere. Dad made a
few calls and it was there the next day, That would have been late 70's
which is quite something for that time.

The Alternator I've just replaced is a non Unipart one, but the peeps were
most helpful when I just queried the wiring and the unit cost £40 as an
exchange unit. I'm a happy chicken.

Lee D


 

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