interesting symptom...

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S

steve

Guest
Hi, whilst on the hunt for a definite cause for my 200tdi rangerover's
awfull smoking startup problem, I had just done the valve clearances and
thought I'd start it and listen again...started quickly and I didn't
give it any throttle so it was realy rough...cracked each injector in
turn to see if one made any difference (air etc), none did it was still
rough...I felt carefully around the back of the head to see if I could
feel a blown gasket but nope...whilst I had my hand near the manifold I
realised that no. 4 branch of the manifold was not warm like the rest!
Never read about this check in any manual...I wonder if this points to
an injector problem? After some minutes and some throttle things get
smoother but still smokey.
As it's our only working motor I cant take it out of service for long
hence the laborious rate of progress...I'm sure we'll get there though
Steve;)
 
steve wrote:
> Hi, whilst on the hunt for a definite cause for my 200tdi rangerover's
> awfull smoking startup problem, I had just done the valve clearances and
> thought I'd start it and listen again...started quickly and I didn't
> give it any throttle so it was realy rough...cracked each injector in
> turn to see if one made any difference (air etc), none did it was still
> rough...I felt carefully around the back of the head to see if I could
> feel a blown gasket but nope...whilst I had my hand near the manifold I
> realised that no. 4 branch of the manifold was not warm like the rest!
> Never read about this check in any manual...I wonder if this points to
> an injector problem? After some minutes and some throttle things get
> smoother but still smokey.

Number 4 glow plug not working - thus no combustion when cold leading
to smoke and rough running?

--
EMB
 
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 23:34:32 +0000, steve <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Hi, whilst on the hunt for a definite cause for my 200tdi rangerover's
>awfull smoking startup problem, I had just done the valve clearances and
>thought I'd start it and listen again...started quickly and I didn't
>give it any throttle so it was realy rough...cracked each injector in
>turn to see if one made any difference (air etc), none did it was still
>rough...I felt carefully around the back of the head to see if I could
>feel a blown gasket but nope...whilst I had my hand near the manifold I
>realised that no. 4 branch of the manifold was not warm like the rest!
>Never read about this check in any manual...I wonder if this points to
>an injector problem? After some minutes and some throttle things get
>smoother but still smokey.
>As it's our only working motor I cant take it out of service for long
>hence the laborious rate of progress...I'm sure we'll get there though
>Steve;)

You could try swapping 2 injectors round and see if the problem moves
with it?
Perhaps one of the injectors just doesnt work very well or too well
and is causing your smoke?
 
EMB wrote:
> steve wrote:
>
>> Hi, whilst on the hunt for a definite cause for my 200tdi rangerover's
>> awfull smoking startup problem, I had just done the valve clearances
>> and thought I'd start it and listen again...started quickly and I
>> didn't give it any throttle so it was realy rough...cracked each
>> injector in turn to see if one made any difference (air etc), none did
>> it was still rough...I felt carefully around the back of the head to
>> see if I could feel a blown gasket but nope...whilst I had my hand
>> near the manifold I realised that no. 4 branch of the manifold was not
>> warm like the rest!
>> Never read about this check in any manual...I wonder if this points to
>> an injector problem? After some minutes and some throttle things get
>> smoother but still smokey.
>
>
> Number 4 glow plug not working - thus no combustion when cold leading
> to smoke and rough running?
>
ah but I just put a new set of shiny unipart ones in (very carefully
so's not to break them) 2 days ago since which I've been able to start
it again without cranking the battery flat first...so I tend to think
it's not that, thanks anyhow EMB
Steve
 
Tom Woods wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 23:34:32 +0000, steve <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Hi, whilst on the hunt for a definite cause for my 200tdi rangerover's
>>awfull smoking startup problem, I had just done the valve clearances and
>>thought I'd start it and listen again...started quickly and I didn't
>>give it any throttle so it was realy rough...cracked each injector in
>>turn to see if one made any difference (air etc), none did it was still
>>rough...I felt carefully around the back of the head to see if I could
>>feel a blown gasket but nope...whilst I had my hand near the manifold I
>>realised that no. 4 branch of the manifold was not warm like the rest!
>>Never read about this check in any manual...I wonder if this points to
>>an injector problem? After some minutes and some throttle things get
>>smoother but still smokey.
>>As it's our only working motor I cant take it out of service for long
>>hence the laborious rate of progress...I'm sure we'll get there though
>>Steve;)
>
>
> You could try swapping 2 injectors round and see if the problem moves
> with it?
> Perhaps one of the injectors just doesnt work very well or too well
> and is causing your smoke?
I'll try that tomorrow...any idea if copper washers in injector holes
are the same size as series ones?
Steve
 
steve wrote:

> ah but I just put a new set of shiny unipart ones in (very carefully
> so's not to break them) 2 days ago since which I've been able to start
> it again without cranking the battery flat first...so I tend to think
> it's not that, thanks anyhow EMB

Just a thought - take that one out and test it - it wouldn't be the
first DOA glow plug I've seen.


--
EMB
 
In message <[email protected]>
Tom Woods <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 23:34:32 +0000, steve <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Hi, whilst on the hunt for a definite cause for my 200tdi rangerover's
> >awfull smoking startup problem, I had just done the valve clearances and
> >thought I'd start it and listen again...started quickly and I didn't
> >give it any throttle so it was realy rough...cracked each injector in
> >turn to see if one made any difference (air etc), none did it was still
> >rough...I felt carefully around the back of the head to see if I could
> >feel a blown gasket but nope...whilst I had my hand near the manifold I
> >realised that no. 4 branch of the manifold was not warm like the rest!
> >Never read about this check in any manual...I wonder if this points to
> >an injector problem? After some minutes and some throttle things get
> >smoother but still smokey.
> >As it's our only working motor I cant take it out of service for long
> >hence the laborious rate of progress...I'm sure we'll get there though
> >Steve;)
>
> You could try swapping 2 injectors round and see if the problem moves
> with it?
> Perhaps one of the injectors just doesnt work very well or too well
> and is causing your smoke?

If you get the engine running you can crack the nuts on the
injector pipes one at a time and see which one(s) is/are
causing the smoke. Be careful, though. The fuel comes out
under a fair bit of pressure. Fire is a definate risk, as
is injecting fuel into yourself which is usually rated
as being Not A Good Thing.

Cheers
Richard


--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems
 
beamendsltd wrote:
> In message <[email protected]>
> Tom Woods <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 23:34:32 +0000, steve <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hi, whilst on the hunt for a definite cause for my 200tdi rangerover's
>>>awfull smoking startup problem, I had just done the valve clearances and
>>>thought I'd start it and listen again...started quickly and I didn't
>>>give it any throttle so it was realy rough...cracked each injector in
>>>turn to see if one made any difference (air etc), none did it was still
>>>rough...I felt carefully around the back of the head to see if I could
>>>feel a blown gasket but nope...whilst I had my hand near the manifold I
>>>realised that no. 4 branch of the manifold was not warm like the rest!
>>>Never read about this check in any manual...I wonder if this points to
>>>an injector problem? After some minutes and some throttle things get
>>>smoother but still smokey.
>>>As it's our only working motor I cant take it out of service for long
>>>hence the laborious rate of progress...I'm sure we'll get there though
>>>Steve;)
>>
>>You could try swapping 2 injectors round and see if the problem moves
>>with it?
>>Perhaps one of the injectors just doesnt work very well or too well
>>and is causing your smoke?
>
>
> If you get the engine running you can crack the nuts on the
> injector pipes one at a time and see which one(s) is/are
> causing the smoke. Be careful, though. The fuel comes out
> under a fair bit of pressure. Fire is a definate risk, as
> is injecting fuel into yourself which is usually rated
> as being Not A Good Thing.
>
> Cheers
> Richard
>
>
Richard hi I've done that already and couldn't spot an obviously duff
one are copper washers under injectors the same size as series ones?
Ta Steve
 
In message <[email protected]>
steve <[email protected]> wrote:

> beamendsltd wrote:
> > In message <[email protected]>
> > Tom Woods <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 23:34:32 +0000, steve <[email protected]>
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Hi, whilst on the hunt for a definite cause for my 200tdi rangerover's
> >>>awfull smoking startup problem, I had just done the valve clearances and
> >>>thought I'd start it and listen again...started quickly and I didn't
> >>>give it any throttle so it was realy rough...cracked each injector in
> >>>turn to see if one made any difference (air etc), none did it was still
> >>>rough...I felt carefully around the back of the head to see if I could
> >>>feel a blown gasket but nope...whilst I had my hand near the manifold I
> >>>realised that no. 4 branch of the manifold was not warm like the rest!
> >>>Never read about this check in any manual...I wonder if this points to
> >>>an injector problem? After some minutes and some throttle things get
> >>>smoother but still smokey.
> >>>As it's our only working motor I cant take it out of service for long
> >>>hence the laborious rate of progress...I'm sure we'll get there though
> >>>Steve;)
> >>
> >>You could try swapping 2 injectors round and see if the problem moves
> >>with it?
> >>Perhaps one of the injectors just doesnt work very well or too well
> >>and is causing your smoke?
> >
> >
> > If you get the engine running you can crack the nuts on the
> > injector pipes one at a time and see which one(s) is/are
> > causing the smoke. Be careful, though. The fuel comes out
> > under a fair bit of pressure. Fire is a definate risk, as
> > is injecting fuel into yourself which is usually rated
> > as being Not A Good Thing.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Richard
> >
> >
> Richard hi I've done that already and couldn't spot an obviously duff
> one are copper washers under injectors the same size as series ones?
> Ta Steve

No - they are different, as are the sealing washers

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems
 
beamendsltd wrote:
> In message <[email protected]>
> steve <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>beamendsltd wrote:
>>
>>>In message <[email protected]>
>>> Tom Woods <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 23:34:32 +0000, steve <[email protected]>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hi, whilst on the hunt for a definite cause for my 200tdi rangerover's
>>>>>awfull smoking startup problem, I had just done the valve clearances and
>>>>>thought I'd start it and listen again...started quickly and I didn't
>>>>>give it any throttle so it was realy rough...cracked each injector in
>>>>>turn to see if one made any difference (air etc), none did it was still
>>>>>rough...I felt carefully around the back of the head to see if I could
>>>>>feel a blown gasket but nope...whilst I had my hand near the manifold I
>>>>>realised that no. 4 branch of the manifold was not warm like the rest!
>>>>>Never read about this check in any manual...I wonder if this points to
>>>>>an injector problem? After some minutes and some throttle things get
>>>>>smoother but still smokey.
>>>>>As it's our only working motor I cant take it out of service for long
>>>>>hence the laborious rate of progress...I'm sure we'll get there though
>>>>>Steve;)
>>>>
>>>>You could try swapping 2 injectors round and see if the problem moves
>>>>with it?
>>>>Perhaps one of the injectors just doesnt work very well or too well
>>>>and is causing your smoke?
>>>
>>>
>>>If you get the engine running you can crack the nuts on the
>>>injector pipes one at a time and see which one(s) is/are
>>>causing the smoke. Be careful, though. The fuel comes out
>>>under a fair bit of pressure. Fire is a definate risk, as
>>>is injecting fuel into yourself which is usually rated
>>>as being Not A Good Thing.
>>>
>>>Cheers
>>>Richard
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Richard hi I've done that already and couldn't spot an obviously duff
>>one are copper washers under injectors the same size as series ones?
>>Ta Steve
>
>
> No - they are different, as are the sealing washers
>
> Richard
ok ta Richard suppose i'd better order a set then
Steve
 
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:53:41 +1300, EMB
<[email protected]>
was popularly supposed to have said:

> steve wrote:
>
>> ah but I just put a new set of shiny unipart ones in (very carefully
>> so's not to break them) 2 days ago since which I've been able to start
>> it again without cranking the battery flat first...so I tend to think
>> it's not that, thanks anyhow EMB
>
> Just a thought - take that one out and test it - it wouldn't be the
> first DOA glow plug I've seen.

While you're at it, test the supply lead to make sure that is low
resistance too, or swap one lead round, or something. Right now you
don't know if the power supply to the glowplug is dud or not.


--
Dan Holdsworth PhD [email protected]
By caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, By the beans of Java
do thoughts acquire speed, hands acquire shaking, the shaking
becomes a warning, By caffeine alone do I set my mind in motion
 
Steve
Have you checked the CC for pressurisation?
unscrew the oil filler with the engine running. If it nearly takes your head
off, you probable have a head gasket gone!

Mike

"steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi, whilst on the hunt for a definite cause for my 200tdi rangerover's
> awfull smoking startup problem, I had just done the valve clearances and
> thought I'd start it and listen again...started quickly and I didn't
> give it any throttle so it was realy rough...cracked each injector in
> turn to see if one made any difference (air etc), none did it was still
> rough...I felt carefully around the back of the head to see if I could
> feel a blown gasket but nope...whilst I had my hand near the manifold I
> realised that no. 4 branch of the manifold was not warm like the rest!
> Never read about this check in any manual...I wonder if this points to
> an injector problem? After some minutes and some throttle things get
> smoother but still smokey.
> As it's our only working motor I cant take it out of service for long
> hence the laborious rate of progress...I'm sure we'll get there though
> Steve;)


 
steve wrote:
> Hi, whilst on the hunt for a definite cause for my 200tdi rangerover's
> awfull smoking startup problem, I had just done the valve clearances and
> thought I'd start it and listen again...started quickly and I didn't
> give it any throttle so it was realy rough...cracked each injector in
> turn to see if one made any difference (air etc), none did it was still
> rough...I felt carefully around the back of the head to see if I could
> feel a blown gasket but nope...whilst I had my hand near the manifold I
> realised that no. 4 branch of the manifold was not warm like the rest!
> Never read about this check in any manual...I wonder if this points to
> an injector problem? After some minutes and some throttle things get
> smoother but still smokey.
> As it's our only working motor I cant take it out of service for long
> hence the laborious rate of progress...I'm sure we'll get there though
> Steve;)
today I took the injector for no.4 out for a look the tip was very wet
and crusted with sooty crud which I cleaned off carefully with a
fingernail, not having new washer I annealled the old one and reused it.
On a test drive its chuffing blueish smoke clouds and feels "not right"
but that manifold branch gets hot at the same rate as the rest now.
In earlier posts I've said about oil level rising due to long periods
cranking to start, solved with new gloplugs, but letting diesel into
sump via bores. PDannyD mentioned the poor lubricatingness of oil/diesel
mix and hinted at rapid wear of things like valve guides (why them in
particular?) Increasing blue in smoke makes me think it may be them.
Crankcase pressure is ok and inside of intercooler is not too dirty
either, I'm not keen on taking of the head for a look as taking vehicle
out of action is quite serious for us so if I/we can come up with other
stuff to check first...
cheers folks hope you can help me ....more, Steve
 
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