Ignition short? Bad starter? The saga continues

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keithlard

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Location
London
Short version: Land Rover does not go!

Here's the background (partly detailed in Starting problem after alternator swap, but I've now eliminated the alternator).

A couple of weeks ago I cross-connected the battery in a perfectly understandable accident which could happen to anyone. Only for a few seconds, mind, but that's all you need. Having reconnected it the right way round, surprisingly, I was able to start and run the car, and in fact drove it around for several days.

However, the stereo was blown, and the alternator light was on and the meter confirmed no charge was getting to the battery. So I got a new alternator and put it in. On trying to start the car, it turned over once but gave up, and there was just a fast clicking from the starter.

The battery was now completely flat, so I put a new one in, and tried again. All I could get was the clicking - but the battery drained quickly. With the meter I could see that when I turned the ignition to START, the battery voltage dropped to 5V. If I just turned the ignition on, without starting, I saw a slight voltage drop for a few seconds and then a click and the voltage came back - presumably the glow plugs coming on and then going off.

Trying again with a newly charged battery, this time when I turned the ignition on, the big voltage drop happened immediately (without turning the key to START) and there were no lights on the dashboard, and no sound from the starter.

I've checked the wiring physically (in so far as I can get to or see the starter) and everything looks fine. It was starting and running with no problems before I changed the alternator. The moment I reconnected the battery and turned the key after putting in the new alternator, the problems started. It is a 65A alternator replacing a 45A, but otherwise the same.

I checked the big cable from the battery + terminal and it is almost a dead short to earth when the ignition is on. One explanation of that is that the solenoid contacts are stuck closed (possibly fused) and current is going through the starter motor. But if this is so, why don't I hear the starter turning and why doesn't the engine crank?

If the solenoid contacts are open, then there must be a short elsewhere in the ignition circuit. Let's say that some component was weakened as a result of the reverse voltage, and finally blown by the higher current coming from the new alternator. If that component was shorting the battery to earth, then it would explain the clicking starter (not enough juice to crank the engine), the progressively worsening current drain, and the fact that the starter is not turning.

What experiment could I do to test this? If the starter was easy to take off and test on the bench, I would do that, but it looks like a bit of a job. I want to be very sure that the starter is the problem before doing that.

My first thought is just to go through the wiring diagram checking everything with the meter to try and find the short. Am I on the right lines?
 
not sure if this apply to your model 1991 -1994 but when you connect the battery on the wrong polarity have you blown the diode and the resistor in circuit with alternator to stop feed back though the ignition light to the fuel cut solenoid and glow-plug relay etc
 

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not sure if this apply to your model 1991 -1994 but when you connect the battery on the wrong polarity have you blown the diode and the resistor in circuit with alternator to stop feed back though the ignition light to the fuel cut solenoid and glow-plug relay etc

Hmm, that's a good point. Do you know where they are physically on the vehicle?
 
not sure if this apply to your model 1991 -1994 but when you connect the battery on the wrong polarity have you blown the diode and the resistor in circuit with alternator to stop feed back though the ignition light to the fuel cut solenoid and glow-plug relay etc

Hold on though, I've disconnected the alternator now, and I've still got a short. So it can't be through that path, can it? If the resistor was blown then the charging light would be on, but that's all.
 
electrically disconnect the starter

Yes, that's got to be the next step, hasn't it? If the short is still present then I'll know it's not the starter, and if it isn't, that makes the fix easy, if somewhat expensive.

I could just wish they'd made the starter wiring a bit easier to get to without dismantling the whole vehicle. Every part of a Land Rover seems to be inaccessibly behind some other part!
 
Update: I disconnected the starter and the short circuit is still present. So that's helpful information (at least I don't have to replace the starter) but on the other hand I now have to figure where the problem is.

There are two chunky brown cables and one little one, all connected together at the starter. I found that only one of the chunky brown cables is shorted. This runs round the back of the engine block and splits into two: one side goes to the alternator, again with two thick cables and one thin one. None of these are shorted. In the other direction it goes to a big plug block, joining several different wires together, which then go through the bulkhead, just next to the glow plug timer.

So I now have to trace where the chunky brown cable goes from the starter through the bulkhead. It's a high-current cable, so looking at the wiring diagram the possibilities would be:

  • Via fuse to radio (the radio is dead, so this looks suspicious)
  • Voltage-sensitive switch to the rear window heater (which doesn't work anyway)
  • Voltage transformer for the lights

Does anyone know where the fuse for the radio is? It doesn't seem to be in the main fuse box. I think my next step will be to pull the radio and see if (a) there is a blown fuse on the head unit itself, and (b) whether the short is still present with the radio disconnected.
 
Believe Ally is right - that big wire going through the bulkhead will be the main feed to the fuse box

Would suggest disconnecting it at both ends and checking the cable isn't shorted (through chaffing) to the chassis
 
Just a note on the final solution to the mystery - a new starter fixed the problem!

I don't really understand that as I was pretty sure that I eliminated the starter. When I disconnected all the + cables from it and checked them, they were still shorted. But I couldn't find anything else wrong and eventually got AJD Landrovers to take a look at it. They replaced the starter and battery and she fired up straight away!

Still, it's good to have my baby back on the road after all this time.
 
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