Hunting the noise

So I’ve been hunting the noise that appears when slowing down and or free rolling out of gear. (Aways been there since chassis up rebuild)
My fist thoughts it was gearbox so refurbished gearbox etc all fitted while body off, no change.
My next thought on noise direction were rear differential, so replaced and replaced tired callipers, discs and bearings.
noise seems to be coming now from front.
Props seem ok with no play, I have added spacers to both props because of the lift but not wide angle props on front and back, still have noise.
Now at the front all new callipers, discs and bearings, still noise.
Just about replace front diff (while I’m at it new swivel ball seals).
All drive shafts look in good nic.
Am I missing something?
Early 1978 RRC classic
10 spline
2” springs and shocks for extra lift.
Noise when slowing down (so not under load) and sane noise when free rolling out of gear.
Noise sounds like metal on metal, deep tone grinding, like your prop is just about to let go, or your driving a straight cut gearbox (not that loud and deeper tone), or bearings falling apart. As you can see struggling to explain noise.
No tyre rub.
No movement/play when holding hub and moving around.
Castor off by a lot and driving in a straight line a mare, changed over the bushes for 3 degrees correction and although an improvement, it will still not centre whilst driving so I’m looking at changing to the 6degrees arms (see photo of castor even after changing correction bushes).
No noise when under load but as soon as you lift it starts, unless in high gear so still under slight load.
Only thing left to replace after front diff are props but will wait till castor sorted so I can measure and have made.
Love to get this on the road with no issues this summer Help!

Transfer box?

I'd be looking at the props/diffs to start with, check for play.. lift an end up an spin the wheels etc

tomcat59alan said:

Transfer box?

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I hope not as that was all refurbished as well

kermit_rr said:

I'd be looking at the props/diffs to start with, check for play.. lift an end up an spin the wheels etc

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After changing the front diff today the only thing left will be props to change so I’ll wait and see. If noise not gone I will lift the front and see if I can find from that, hopefully diff will solve

Muddy goose said:

After changing the front diff today the only thing left will be props to change so I’ll wait and see. If noise not gone I will lift the front and see if I can find from that, hopefully diff will solve

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Give it a drive without the 1 prop. This will save you removing again

Checked front diff all looked ok, slight play but not too bad. While putting back together will be doing seals on swivel balls. All fills quite tight, could cv joints make the grumbling noise when decelerating?

Hicap phill said:

Give it a drive without the 1 prop. This will save you removing again

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Will it drive without front prop, that would tell me if it’s the gearbox/transfer or front issue?

Muddy goose said:

Will it drive without front prop, that would tell me if it’s the gearbox/transfer or front issue?

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Try with/without diff lock but don’t go too fast.

Muddy goose said:

So I’ve been hunting the noise that appears when slowing down and or free rolling out of gear. (Aways been there since chassis up rebuild)
My fist thoughts it was gearbox so refurbished gearbox etc all fitted while body off, no change.
My next thought on noise direction were rear differential, so replaced and replaced tired callipers, discs and bearings.
noise seems to be coming now from front.
Props seem ok with no play, I have added spacers to both props because of the lift but not wide angle props on front and back, still have noise.
Now at the front all new callipers, discs and bearings, still noise.
Just about replace front diff (while I’m at it new swivel ball seals).
All drive shafts look in good nic.
Am I missing something?
Early 1978 RRC classic
10 spline
2” springs and shocks for extra lift.
Noise when slowing down (so not under load) and sane noise when free rolling out of gear.
Noise sounds like metal on metal, deep tone grinding, like your prop is just about to let go, or your driving a straight cut gearbox (not that loud and deeper tone), or bearings falling apart. As you can see struggling to explain noise.
No tyre rub.
No movement/play when holding hub and moving around.
Castor off by a lot and driving in a straight line a mare, changed over the bushes for 3 degrees correction and although an improvement, it will still not centre whilst driving so I’m looking at changing to the 6degrees arms (see photo of castor even after changing correction bushes).
No noise when under load but as soon as you lift it starts, unless in high gear so still under slight load.
Only thing left to replace after front diff are props but will wait till castor sorted so I can measure and have made.
Love to get this on the road with no issues this summer Help!

Click to expand...

What tyres are you running?
If you have another set of wheels, try them and rule out the tyres.

Well guys thank you for all the support. Everything replaced now including wide angle props. So last thing that be making the noise is the LR95 4 speed gearbox. When this was installed it was a fully reconditioned box and transfer, built by a lovely chap in the midlands that worked back in the day building them and with his mate who was the line manager, so I would hope done well.
The box has only done about 500 miles. When cold the box is quiet and after just 5-10mins it starts to make a noise on de acceleration, so not under load. The longer you drive the louder the noise becomes (a metallic noise, not tyres). Knocking out of gear the noise is still there and then hard to put back in to gear, until the speed is down to under 10 mph. all the gearbox repair places in the south do not touch these anymore. The only advise I was given by ‘Bexhill gearboxes’ always been a good service was to try not using the 20/50 and move over to what I use every where else the 80-90, this is the next and my last hope.
has anyone experienced this before with the LR95 box. Also any know guys left working on these would be good, all the blogs on this seem to be 10+ years old now.
cheers

Muddy goose said:

Well guys thank you for all the support. Everything replaced now including wide angle props. So last thing that be making the noise is the LR95 4 speed gearbox. When this was installed it was a fully reconditioned box and transfer, built by a lovely chap in the midlands that worked back in the day building them and with his mate who was the line manager, so I would hope done well.
The box has only done about 500 miles. When cold the box is quiet and after just 5-10mins it starts to make a noise on de acceleration, so not under load. The longer you drive the louder the noise becomes (a metallic noise, not tyres). Knocking out of gear the noise is still there and then hard to put back in to gear, until the speed is down to under 10 mph. all the gearbox repair places in the south do not touch these anymore. The only advise I was given by ‘Bexhill gearboxes’ always been a good service was to try not using the 20/50 and move over to what I use every where else the 80-90, this is the next and my last hope.
has anyone experienced this before with the LR95 box. Also any know guys left working on these would be good, all the blogs on this seem to be 10+ years old now.
cheers

Click to expand...

You sure it's the box? If the car has a DMF it could be that it's failing/failed.

I presume you mean the LT95 gearbox with integral transfer box?
Doesn't use a DMF.

No it doesn’t have one, I was more thinking a bearing and or thrust washer?
Sorry LT95 as it’s more know

Has it got a handbrake drum on the rear of the gearbox, could the handbrake cable be transmitting noise into the cabin ,just a though /......

Seems like you've eliminated most everything else.
Apart from the lift. Not something I've ever done or have experience of but I can't help wondering if that's the cause of the issue.

I don't know if you already have one but FWIW old factory workshop manual* I've got gives the following for gearbox noise:
1 Gearbox noisy in neutral.
Causes: Insufficient oil in gearbox, Incorrect grade of oil, Primary pinion bearing worn, Constant mesh gears worn, Layshaft bearings worn
2 Gearbox noisy in all gears except top
Causes: Layshaft, mainshaft or primary pinion bearings worn. Constant mesh gears worn.
3 Gearbox noisy in one gear only
Cause: Worn or damaged gears or bearings
4 Gearbox noisy in all gears
Cause: Worn bearings on primary pinion, mainshaft or layshaft.
For transfer box noise:
Insufficient oil in transfer box, Incorrect grade of oil, Excessive end float on intermediate gears assembly, Worn components in gearbox differential unit, Worn bearings in intermediate gears assembly.

The two boxes of the LT95 are separate as far as lubrication is concerned & transfer of oil between the two is listed as a fault. Faulty 'O' ring on reverse gear idler shaft and/or Faulty mainshaft oil seal.
Filling one doesn't fill the other. I assume you've filled both as required? Main gearbox 2.6 litres, Transfer box 3.1 litres.

Lubrication spec list for both boxes for our climate temp range is 10W/30, 10W/40, 10W/50, 15W/40, 15W/50, 20W/40. 20W/50.
Also says for our temp range (-10 to +20 deg C) 'Manual gearbox (Top-up only) Hypoid 90.

* The manual is 'Range Rover Manual AKM3630'. Paperback book & about an inch thick! Mine has a copyright date of 1977. Quick google shows it available from various places incl ebay.

dubbleRR said:

Has it got a handbrake drum on the rear of the gearbox, could the handbrake cable be transmitting noise into the cabin ,just a though /......

Click to expand...

It’s more of a metallic bearing noise

Ratae said:

Seems like you've eliminated most everything else.
Apart from the lift. Not something I've ever done or have experience of but I can't help wondering if that's the cause of the issue.

I don't know if you already have one but FWIW old factory workshop manual* I've got gives the following for gearbox noise:
1 Gearbox noisy in neutral.
Causes: Insufficient oil in gearbox, Incorrect grade of oil, Primary pinion bearing worn, Constant mesh gears worn, Layshaft bearings worn
2 Gearbox noisy in all gears except top
Causes: Layshaft, mainshaft or primary pinion bearings worn. Constant mesh gears worn.
3 Gearbox noisy in one gear only
Cause: Worn or damaged gears or bearings
4 Gearbox noisy in all gears
Cause: Worn bearings on primary pinion, mainshaft or layshaft.
For transfer box noise:
Insufficient oil in transfer box, Incorrect grade of oil, Excessive end float on intermediate gears assembly, Worn components in gearbox differential unit, Worn bearings in intermediate gears assembly.

The two boxes of the LT95 are separate as far as lubrication is concerned & transfer of oil between the two is listed as a fault. Faulty 'O' ring on reverse gear idler shaft and/or Faulty mainshaft oil seal.
Filling one doesn't fill the other. I assume you've filled both as required? Main gearbox 2.6 litres, Transfer box 3.1 litres.

Lubrication spec list for both boxes for our climate temp range is 10W/30, 10W/40, 10W/50, 15W/40, 15W/50, 20W/40. 20W/50.
Also says for our temp range (-10 to +20 deg C) 'Manual gearbox (Top-up only) Hypoid 90.

* The manual is 'Range Rover Manual AKM3630'. Paperback book & about an inch thick! Mine has a copyright date of 1977. Quick google shows it available from various places incl ebay.

Click to expand...

Hi Ratae
That is an excellent answer and one I can start working with, thank you you so much. I will post my findings for others. thanks again

Ratae said:

Seems like you've eliminated most everything else.
Apart from the lift. Not something I've ever done or have experience of but I can't help wondering if that's the cause of the issue.

I don't know if you already have one but FWIW old factory workshop manual* I've got gives the following for gearbox noise:
1 Gearbox noisy in neutral.
Causes: Insufficient oil in gearbox, Incorrect grade of oil, Primary pinion bearing worn, Constant mesh gears worn, Layshaft bearings worn
2 Gearbox noisy in all gears except top
Causes: Layshaft, mainshaft or primary pinion bearings worn. Constant mesh gears worn.
3 Gearbox noisy in one gear only
Cause: Worn or damaged gears or bearings
4 Gearbox noisy in all gears
Cause: Worn bearings on primary pinion, mainshaft or layshaft.
For transfer box noise:
Insufficient oil in transfer box, Incorrect grade of oil, Excessive end float on intermediate gears assembly, Worn components in gearbox differential unit, Worn bearings in intermediate gears assembly.

The two boxes of the LT95 are separate as far as lubrication is concerned & transfer of oil between the two is listed as a fault. Faulty 'O' ring on reverse gear idler shaft and/or Faulty mainshaft oil seal.
Filling one doesn't fill the other. I assume you've filled both as required? Main gearbox 2.6 litres, Transfer box 3.1 litres.

Lubrication spec list for both boxes for our climate temp range is 10W/30, 10W/40, 10W/50, 15W/40, 15W/50, 20W/40. 20W/50.
Also says for our temp range (-10 to +20 deg C) 'Manual gearbox (Top-up only) Hypoid 90.

* The manual is 'Range Rover Manual AKM3630'. Paperback book & about an inch thick! Mine has a copyright date of 1977. Quick google shows it available from various places incl ebay.

Click to expand...

I’ve ordered the book. Thanks again dude

Hi Guys just an update. Changed to 80-90 oil as per Bexhill gearboxes thoughts, slightly less noise but hasn’t solved issue (waste of £40 oil). Now waiting on book to see what other things to check.
Not sure if this highlights anything, I put the diff lock on and slowly pulled away on gravel drive and the rear wheels locked up and dragged?