Series 3 How to start!! Red key

hi all, have just got a series 3 1983 Land Rover. Any one give me a clue on how to start it as it has one of the plastic red keys!! As well as normal key. Got it to turn over once but then had a smell of electric burning!! There is also a red charge light on the dash ??? Help

The red key only opens the tricity from the battery so once its on any problems are likely to be in the normal wiring. It could be any number of problems and will probably need systematically tracing. It may even be easier to disconnect anything not to do with firing it up and once running reconnecting each system.

There may be thin, unsuitable cables (for starting) bypassing the heavy cables (for starting) on the rear of the red key switch. This is done to maintain 12v for radio memory, clock whatever.
If this has been done you must have the switch ON!
I've done that on mine but have fitted a resettable fuse so if I do forget to use the red key it will trip instead of sending hundreds of wire melting amps down a cable designed for 5 amps.
Post a pic up of the back of the switch for a look see.

Flossie said:

There may be thin, unsuitable cables (for starting) bypassing the heavy cables (for starting) on the rear of the red key switch. This is done to maintain 12v for radio memory, clock whatever.
If this has been done you must have the switch ON!
I've done that on mine but have fitted a resettable fuse so if I do forget to use the red key it will trip instead of sending hundreds of wire melting amps down a cable designed for 5 amps.
Post a pic up of the back of the switch for a look see.

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hi thanks for your reply. i will try and get photo tomorrow. i have had another play and found a yellow and green cable that seem to have broken or got very hot and melted. when i put the cable together again and tried it turned over but did not start as i think battery is very low. but the cable did seem to get hot on the couple of times i turned the engine over. so in the order should i put the normal key in and turn it two clicks to which the ignition comes on and things like head lights etc work. with the key in that position i then put the red plastic key in and turn it. this turns over the engine. if the engine had started should i tune back the red key and remove? why would the east cable be getting hot ? thanks

Red key should be turned on 1st and left on till you park up it is a security feature.

Blackburn said:

Red key should be turned on 1st and left on till you park up it is a security feature.

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At this minute I think's acting as a fire preventer too. Leave it off when you're not actually wanting power while you sort this out.

You need to follow that green/yellow and see what it's going to. Either that thing is dying and causing a short circuit, or the wire is the wrong size for the load.

This is the earthing cable that seemed to die!!

That appears to be connected to the starter motor side of solenoid , where does the other end go?
As its damaged for the moment I would cut it off , maybe some one has fitted it through a red switch to prevent starting.
Where it is connected if on the starter motor side is only live during starting.

Blackburn said:

That appears to be connected to the starter motor side of solenoid , where does the other end go?
As its damaged for the moment I would cut it off , maybe some one has fitted it through a red switch to prevent starting.
Where it is connected if on the starter motor side is only live during starting.

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hi, I am guessing the other end is connected to the red key inside. when I try to turn the engine over this is the cable that melted when first tried turning it over. if I disconnect it the there is no turnover at all so sounds right about being on the started motor. when the cable is put together the starter turns over just ( I have put battery oncharge ) but the cable did feel warm. still not sure on this red key thing as some have told be once the engine has started turn the redkey off others have said you need to leave it on as power to the battery. wondered if I melted the cable but leaving it on or trying to turn the engine over with a low battery...............

There's no room for guessing with electrics. You need to be certain that it's the red key wire. If it is, where does the other wire go to from the red key?

These are not standard fittings on Land Rovers, so ignore the advice of well-wishers, the only way to know what it does is to look at what it's actually switching.

The yellow/green doesn't look like a normal burnt wire in that picture. It looks like it's been cut, and because the remaining connection is just a few strands, the resistance is too high and it has overheated. It's perfectly possible that, if replaced/repaired it would be up to the job - but we need to know what the job actually is.

The questions then are - who half cut the wire, and why?

One thing is for sure it should not be household earth cable. Whomsoever wired that was a dick.

Oh dear keep a fire extinguisher to hand

Isolator switch could have been added to do anything.

I'd rip out the bodged wiring and check though the original circuits. They're pretty simple on a Series.

mpage23 said:

hi, I am guessing the other end is connected to the red key inside. when I try to turn the engine over this is the cable that melted when first tried turning it over. if I disconnect it the there is no turnover at all so sounds right about being on the started motor. when the cable is put together the starter turns over just ( I have put battery oncharge ) but the cable did feel warm. still not sure on this red key thing as some have told be once the engine has started turn the redkey off others have said you need to leave it on as power to the battery. wondered if I melted the cable but leaving it on or trying to turn the engine over with a low battery...............

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I find comments like this quite worrying.

Firstly I have no idea how you could have bought a Series 3 and not even know how to start it.

Secondly, it sounds like it has a lot of non standard wiring in it. So there really is little help people on a forum can give. Someone needs to actually be there to look at it.

Now, basics motoring electronics are pretty simple. So you could read up on it and use some common sense. But randomly guessing and powering stuff up is not likely a good way to do this.

If you haven't got someone who can help you, that knows a little about autoelectrics, i.e. they can school you at the same time. Then your safest bet is to pay an auto-electrician or someone familiar with old Land Rover's to sort it out for you.

boguing said:

It's perfectly possible that, if replaced/repaired it would be up to the job - but we need to know what the job actually is.

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+1 - this is important, as...

blue beasty said:

Isolator switch could have been added to do anything.

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The above is the problem - thus;

blue beasty said:

Oh dear keep a fire extinguisher to hand

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is very good advice.

Sorry @mpage23 , but this could go very badly wrong, quite quickly. If you are not confident in how this all works, then either get the previous owner to explain it to you, and/or get an auto electrician to sort it all out, and be careful!

Id be tempted to rip the switch out and revert back to standard wiring.

Bobsticle said:

Id be tempted to rip the switch out and revert back to standard wiring.

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But only once you know what it is actually doing.. and is safe to do so.

series 3 wiring isn't difficult to do though, most/all of what you need is in the manual and you can easily get pointers from peeps on here, I did mine from scratch knowing jack about auto electrics (and my electrics were well bodged as I found out), its just a question of following the wires and making sure they all go where they are supposed to as per the manual, taking out anything that doesn't belong. It just takes time, quite a bit of time too . But you will know how your electrics work by the end of it.

I would take the red switch out and get it to standard too, once its all working you can put an isolator in and do it properly and know it has been done right.

and the manuals are free to download off the net, haven't got the link anymore but they are there

The large black wire underneath the green and yellow should be going to the starter motor if your battery is above the solenoid to left of your pic.
ie the left hand terminal going to the battery the rh to starter.
Can you post a pic from further away showing where the other black wire goes.
The Right hand terminal also looks to have been burning on the solenoid discolouration at the top.

hi all, thanks for all your comments and advice. the update is this... the red switch key is connected to the starter motor as if you turn the key with out the ignition key in the starter motor turns!!! ( i don't like setup) i got the lr started tonight which was great but i need to replace that green and yellow cable as that is the cable to the the red switch. so to start it you have to turn the ignition key to clicks so the dash lights are on then you turn the red key to to turn over the engine but once started you have to turn off the red key or the starter motor will keep turning. ( maybe this is whey the cable gets so hot. once running i checked the lights etc and some of the connections seem loose as in when i had the wipers going the indicator green arrows on the dash sometimes came on so am guessing there are some bad or loose connections. also windows washer did not work and the light behind the speedo comes on and off!! there is also a switch that has the icon of a dial like a speedo and not sure what that does and also a switch with a prop or fan showing, again not sure what that does if any thing. now i know it runs and drives ok it will be good to go through the haynes manual ( that turned up today) if i remove the bottom of the dash i think i will be able to see and get to most of the electrics. i noticed a small fuse holder under the steering wheel on the housing which could be use full. i do like the idea of removing the the red key..... thanks so much for the advice so far from all.

Blackburn said:

The large black wire underneath the green and yellow should be going to the starter motor if your battery is above the solenoid to left of your pic.
ie the left hand terminal going to the battery the rh to starter.
Can you post a pic from further away showing where the other black wire goes.
The Right hand terminal also looks to have been burning on the solenoid discolouration at the top.

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hi, i followed the large black cable and it went to the other side on the engine to the starter motor. yes battery is above. will bet a photo sorted later for you. thanks