Home made Ethanol

Would it work on soft drinks cans, or does it rely on alcoholic beverage ones?

CharlesY[/quote]

..........having I presume, understood the implications of the Beattie Bridgeman equation whilst designing his Hydrogen extraction process, young ramon has gone and admitted in the 'footwell' thread to having not yet figured out how to post pictures

Would it work on soft drinks cans, or does it rely on alcoholic beverage ones?

Click to expand...

Anything Aluminium actually (including pistons and alloy cylinder blocks if you don't scrub it enough - hence the large space.

Experiment #1

Fill pint glass half full of water.
Spoon 1 tblspoon Caustic soda into glass and mix.
Add 1 pie dish or Al foil.

Wait 1 minute.

See any bubbles yet?

Clean sink with contents when finished.

So if anyone can afford a delorean to stick this reactor in the back, then you could essentially stop to refill it with drinks cans - very back to the future.

Commercial experiments are concentrating on reels of aluminium mig wire, and high voltages and pressures to get a decent ammount of H2 from the water. The reacted solids would be returned for re-use.

Commercial experiments are concentrating on reels of aluminium mig wire, and high voltages and pressures to get a decent ammount of H2 from the water. The reacted solids would be returned for re-use.

and would be recycled by using VAST amounts of coal-fired electricity to recover the aluminium from the aluminium hydroxide ... so what's the point?

The point is that Aluminium cans take a huge ammount of energy to convert the bauxite to aluminium in the first place (Alcan has it's own hydroelectric plant for this purpose), the energy of which is locked up in the metal. WE can (by simple reactions) reverse this process and benefit from that energy. - This case in the form of hydrogen.

Engines with an ECU will moderate the time of pulse for petrol injection to match speed. By co-firing with Hydrogen, engine speed increases, so the ECU cuts back on the fuel pulse - thus saving you petrol.

Works for modern vehicles automatically. For landies, just let your foot off a bit.

Not exactly a cheap or practical source of energy though? Current technology and near term developments are still looking at a factor of 6 times more energy units consumed to produce 1 unit of Hydrogen energy.

Rowan Clearwater said:

The point is that Aluminium ........... the energy of which is locked up in the metal. We can (by simple reactions) reverse this process and benefit from that energy. - This case in the form of hydrogen.

Click to expand...

Drivel. Pure drivel, unless the author has invented some new form of science.

Energy is NEVER "locked up in the metal" or for that matter in any elements in any form that we can access - except in the two cases of nuclear fission and nuclear fusion. We have a way to go before anyone comes up with a kit to convert Series Landies into Fusion or Fission power. "Turn up the di-lithium crystals, Scotty!"

I can just see Slob wheeling his converted Series into Windscale for a fill-up - "Two grams of plutonium please, and check the oil while you're about it."

The use of aluminium (the element) is this example merely separates hydrogen atoms from a compound by replacing them with aluminium atoms. This is not a new science - it is simple schoolboy chemistry and physics

To reverse the process and recover the aluminium to repeat the process will probably take an input of 5 to 10 times as much electrical energy IN compared to the energy given out.

BioDiesel and alcohols are so far the ONLY true "green" fuels, because both of them take their total energy from the SUN, and we hold it temporarily in the fuel, then use the energy, and release it to the atmosphere a little later. It is a totally energy and carbon neutral procedure, and MUST be the future fuel. It WILL happen when EXXON and the rest work out how THEY can monopolise the process and keep all the money.

CharlesY

Thanks guy's I think I started something with this fred.
I was just wondering if there was a cheep alternative to petrol in my landy? with out all the trouble of swapping engines and additions of extra tanks etc...
Cause if I had to swap me engine then I would be putting a diesel of some sort in and running that on SVO/WVO etc.

If you want to use SVO/WVO neat then an indirect injection lump would be better. Bio-diesel works just the same as pump diesel so theres effedctively no difference in terms of engine choice there.

All the above is hearsay... unless you work for HM Customs and Excise, in which case it's heresy!

Rowan Clearwater said:

The point is that Aluminium cans take a huge ammount of energy to convert the bauxite to aluminium in the first place (Alcan has it's own hydroelectric plant for this purpose),

Click to expand...

Or a nuclear one in the case of the anglesey plant.

Rowan Clearwater said:

The point is that Aluminium cans take a huge ammount of energy to convert the bauxite to aluminium in the first place (Alcan has it's own hydroelectric plant for this purpose), the energy of which is locked up in the metal. WE can (by simple reactions) reverse this process and benefit from that energy. - This case in the form of hydrogen.

Engines with an ECU will moderate the time of pulse for petrol injection to match speed. By co-firing with Hydrogen, engine speed increases, so the ECU cuts back on the fuel pulse - thus saving you petrol.

Works for modern vehicles automatically. For landies, just let your foot off a bit.

Click to expand...

so yer sayin alcan have a huge plant to put energy into metals
.
and you want us to reverse wot alcan have done to supply fuel fer wur landies...

..
.. why not just get alcan to pay for wur petrol in the first place thus saving a lot of ****ing about?

why not just get alcan to pay for wur petrol in the first place thus saving a lot of ****ing about?

Click to expand...

You could try, But since you can legally get your "fuel" off the streets for free, and leave a cleaner environment behind you, I think it's worth a try at least. - Provided you don't blow yourself up and get covered in caustic soda in the process (Also a reason for the large area required - safety interlocks) But then again, sitting on top of a large tank of volatile liquid and explosive vapour with a few wires attached is something we all do every day.

Energy is NEVER "locked up in the metal" or for that matter in any elements in any form that we can access - except in the two cases of nuclear fission and nuclear fusion.

Click to expand...

Sorry, Have to disagree with you on that one.
Energy can be stored in materials, Usually by putting that energy into a material, and making it into a material of a higher energy state. e.g. infra red added to iron, causes the iron to become hot. This is an unnatural state, so will radiate ir untill it is back in it's natural state. Aluminium would prefer to be an oxide or hydroxide, so will freely react giving out energy as it does. Magnesium takes a lot of energy to produce from an oxide, but will freely give up that energy when burnt. Petrochemicals also take their energy originally from the Sun, and have stored this until burnt for energy.

Regarding energy stored in metals not being possible, How do you explain how springs work? Or batteries?

Rowan Clearwater said:

Provided you don't blow yourself up and get covered in caustic soda in the process (Also a reason for the large area required - safety interlocks) But then again, sitting on top of a large tank of volatile liquid and explosive vapour with a few wires attached is something we all do every day.

Click to expand...

One must compare apples with apples. There are some practical issues surrounding the generation and use of Hydrogen to be considered.
If one was able to generate sufficient volume on the kitchen table, first challenge is how to cool the Hydrogen to -423.17 F to liquify it, which you cannot do in the freezer compartment of your fridge.
Second is the construction of a cryogenic fuel tank capable of containing pressures upto 200bar to prevent it boiling off, beer cans typically have burst pressure of 6.2 bar.
Oh......... and the small matter of Hydrogen being combustable at a concentration of 4% in air, will either leave a nasty mark on the kitchen table or take you out of the gene pool.
As they say on television........Please do not try this at home..........No really do not try this at home!!!!!

Sorry, this is an "on demand" system, using little over atmospheric pressures. No compression or refrigeration required.

The current developments and patents seem to be concentrating on one cryogenic tank for Hydrogen vehicles using stored liquified gas, yet this would involve very dangerous refilling at conventional filling stations. Can you imagine a crash with one of these onboard?

Seem to be going a bit off topic here. The basics were that the principle works, and would provide a fuel saving from very cheap or free materials.

(just a note for the interested- The US is actually considering running high efficiency superconductors for their power transmission, inside pipes of supercooled hydrogen! In a world frightened of terrorist activities, is this really wise?)

er, might be simpler to buy a diesel and make your own - a hell of a lot safer too. Thats not being flippant, but if you are serious about making your own fuel it would probably be easier in the long run (we've been running diesels on various veg oil blends for years and years - putting the plant together for biodiesel at the moment)

Well i think i will wait until my PETROL engine dies and swap it for a Diesel one.

sounds like a good deal, who is it that does this swap as i have a dead 2 ltr landy injun sat here . would they give me a doosul one for it?

slob said:

sounds like a good deal, who is it that does this swap as i have a dead 2 ltr landy injun sat here . would they give me a doosul one for it?

Click to expand...

That's where you have been going wrong! you have always tried to swap stuff for a Cheese sandwich.