Help - starter rapid clicking intermittent won’t start

Problem Started a few weeks ago - when starting sometimes it’s fine other times I get a rapid clicking from the starter and it won’t start. Sometimes it clicks a few times then starts.

I replaced battery and same problem.
I replaced starter relay and same problem.

when I get the clicking - I have tried a wire feed direct from battery to starter and it turns over and starts fine so it’s is definitely an electrical gremlin (not the starter)

have tested the feed wires into the starter relay (which both come from the ignition switch according to the diagram) - the ‘always live’ one is 12.7v same as battery.
The other one which comes live when you turn the key to crank the engine is lower at 12.3 to 12.4 varies (I disconnected the starter when doing this to avoid complications)

I think this low voltage on the ingitiom crank feed might be the problem but have no idea how to solve.

or does anyone have any other ideas I could check?

any thoughts ?

My first guess would be a bad earth somewhere.

Had the same problem with my 1990 ninety 3 years ago. Tried all you have and replaced ignition switch with no luck. Had a direct to starter line under the bonnet like yours with a switch in it for when it would not go on the key [ care has to be taken truck is out of gear doing this ]
After a while it gave up starting on the key altogether and after much testing found the problem to be in the wire from the ignition switch to the relay in the fuse box. As this is hiding in the loom behind the dash I did no more with it but cut it off from the ignition.
Fitted a direct to starter line from a live at the ignition through a push button switch with no problems since.
The starter solenoid only needs about 5 amps to activate.

Sounds like the solenoid on the starter. I'm sure I've seen kits to rebuild or replace the solenoid itself rather than the whole thing. What engine is it?

I had same problem about a year ago, rapid clicking from starter, like wolf suggests I bought a cheap solenoid kit for about £12 took my starter off, replaced the copper bits and voila started first time and been great ever since, the old ones looked very worn when I replaced them so must have been the issue

Thanks for the suggestions .
It’s a TD5.

tried it again today - was just clicking constantly every time I tried.
I then pulled the relay and connected a cable direct from battery to the brown/red wire that feeds the stater in the relay connector block - it started immediately no problems.

I then refitted the relay and tried with the key and 3 times it started ok then 4th time started clicking again and failed to start. Tried the direct battery connection again and fired up first time.

so I don’t see how it can be an earth or solenoid problem?

I am think it might be a bad cable from the ignition - will try and get to the ignition next and try running a temporary wire instead of the original to see if that does anything…

Beady5 said:

Thanks for the suggestions .
It’s a TD5.

tried it again today - was just clicking constantly every time I tried.
I then pulled the relay and connected a cable to the relay connector

Click to expand...

Where was the clicking coming from?

Cheers

neilly said:

Where was the clicking coming from?

Click to expand...

clicking is coming from the starter

Beady5 said:

clicking is coming from the starter

Click to expand...

Then get the starter soleniod kit, best one I have come across is the one from, some of the cheap ones have smaller diameter copper connectors.
https://x8r.co.uk/land-rover-discov...-denso-solenoid-starter-motor-repair-kit.html

They even have a nice vid to watch.

Cheers

Thing is there is nothing a matter with the starter, when connected direct with a new wire it works every time. So it wont be the starter or its solenoid or an earth problem. A change of relay may work, but I still say it is likely a poor power supply from ignition to said relay is the problem.

The clicking you can hear is the solenoid failing to engage. For the cost of the kit you'd be better off repairing that and completely ruling it out as id put money on that being the problem

And it fails to engage because the relay in the fuse box is not working correctly or not getting a decent power supply to it. OP says given a direct supply it works every time.

I've had the rapid clicking but engine will not turn over effect too. It seems to happen when there is not quite enough power coming from the battery to turn the engine over.

In my case it turned out to be the big positive terminal on the alternator. It wasn't done up tightly enough and the battery was going down. The battery warning light on the dashboard is powered from the multiplug on the back of the alternator so that wasn't showing anything wrong.

I think the rapid clicking (if it sounds like it's coming from inside the cab) is more likely to be the small starter relay than the solenoid on the starter. In a TD5 it's in the fuse box on the centre of the bulkhead behind the gear lever; it's the second one from the left if I remember correctly.

In this case it sounds like there's some resistance between the battery and the starter, so taking apart all the terminals that can be unscrewed and cleaning them up seems like a sensible low-cost start.

Update on this problem:
Car been laid up a few weeks as i was away for a couple of weeks and busy at works before that.
I decided to replace the starter which I did last weekend.
Then it wouldn't do anything on the key - so there is an apparent problem with the alarm system (a clifford aftermarket)..more on that coming up.
so again with a direct power feed from the battery to the cable that feeds the starter in the starter relay, it fired up first time - i tried this a few times over a few days and everytime it works perfectly with a direct feed from the battery.

To address the alarm problem, i have now dismantled half the dashboard to get to the ignition wires; I have removed the alarm cables from the ignition, essential putting the ignition wires back to original to by pass the alarm from the ignition system.
It now turns over on the key fine (so there is clearly a fault on the alarm system somehow because if I put the alarm cables back onto the ignition, it is dead when i turn the key)

The problem now is that with the alarm effectively bypassed, when i try to start the car on the key, the original problem of the starter making a rapid clicking noise is still there as it was at the outset.
So a new battery and starter have not really done anything (although the new starter is noticeably more eager)

I have tried adding a jump lead from the battery negative terminal onto the chassis to improve the earth and that does not solve the problem.

I am now resigned to have to get an auto electrician in to have a look because it clearly seems to be an electrical gremlin
Unless anyone has any final suggestions?

Why are you unwilling to do what I did in my first post ? Has worked fine for three years.
Would likely have saved the purchase of a new battery and starter motor. You have yourself proved it is a problem with the supply from the key to the relay at the lower dash. The cable may well show a good voltage when tested but I bet if said cable was put under load the reading would drop right off.

what year is it try View attachment 247211

tottot said:

Why are you unwilling to do what I did in my first post

Click to expand...

tottot - I have always had your workaround in my mind as an option, but this would likely then bypass the immobiliser which i didn't want to do for security reasons (notwithstanding that the alarm now seems to have a fault anyway).
It has also now become a bit of a mission to try and find the root cause of the problem

mystery said:

what year is it try

Click to expand...

Mystery - you have cracked it
I already tried a direct live feed from battery to the red/white wire on the ignition (to rule out the ignition switch) - the clicking problem still exists

I then removed the relay and simply put a 3 inch 'jumper' lead (on the relay connector block) from the red/white cable that comes from the ignition, across to the brown/red cable that feeds the starter (that way i can still use the key).
Bingo - when i turn the key it starts perfectly.

So the fault seems to be in the cable marked 'ground' on your diagram. although in my Haynes manual it labels this wire as 'alarm'
I ma not sure if this cable should be an earth but the results now do seem to suggest that the fault is in the alarm system somewhere.

So now i can start it no problem with key, just without the relay.
Next stop take it somewhere to get the alarm system tested

EDIT - I just tested the ground/alarm cable into the relay - assuming it’s an earth, I connected to battery via a multimeter - it’s getting about 9 volts - so this is almost am certainly the problem

progress!

Yes, immobiliser's can be a right pain when not working correctly. I have a hold for on switch in the starter line, just turning the key does nothing.

what type and model of after mark alarm is fitted and have you checked the relay ground connection on the grey header C298 PIN 15 for corrosion

Do yourself a favour and bin your Haynes manual. They're OK for beginners but the actual land rover workshop manuals are far better and easily available online