Grrr...Valley Gasket to seal or not to seal.

Just used a composit valley gasket with a smidgen of hylomar around each
port.

Morph now refuses to fire up. ....H'mmmmm

Whats the verdict...who would / wouldneya use anything or just a bare
gasket?

Lee D

On or around Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:20:23 -0000, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Just used a composit valley gasket with a smidgen of hylomar around each
>port.
>
>Morph now refuses to fire up. ....H'mmmmm
>
>Whats the verdict...who would / wouldneya use anything or just a bare
>gasket?

wouldn't have bothered on a composite one, but I doubt that's yer problem,
TBH. You'd have to do something very odd to get no mixture into the
cylinders.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"The great masses of the people ... will more easily fall victims to
a great lie than to a small one" Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
from Mein Kampf, Ch 10

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:30:30 +0000, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>wouldn't have bothered on a composite one, but I doubt that's yer problem,

Why not? The standard one will come with a guarantee to split along
the middle seam within no time whatsoever...

>TBH. You'd have to do something very odd to get no mixture into the
>cylinders.

Yep, take time, drink some tea, work it through bit by bit...


--
"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005

"Mother" <"@ {mother} @"@101fc.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:30:30 +0000, Austin Shackles
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>wouldn't have bothered on a composite one, but I doubt that's yer problem,
>
> Why not? The standard one will come with a guarantee to split along
> the middle seam within no time whatsoever...
>
>>TBH. You'd have to do something very odd to get no mixture into the
>>cylinders.
>
> Yep, take time, drink some tea, work it through bit by bit...

I was thinking of something a little stronger... flattened the battery now
so no choice.

He was spluttering very very occasionally, has a spark or at least HT going
down the leads.
I've left the carbs on the inlet so I know that they are sound as I remove
them as one lump.
Pump can be heard whiring in the tank and petrol can be smealt but thats as
far as I managed to get.
PITA that it's 6 miles away at the mo, hands are cut to bits.

On the bright side the oil pressure came up ok after swapping the oil cooler
pipes.. I had visions of fun there.

Is there anything more to fitting the lifters than soaking in oil and
inserting them?? I assume it's one size fits all?

I've a sinking feeling that I'm going to end up removing the valley gasket
and refitting it minus any surplus gunge.

Lee D

On or around Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:43:20 +0000, Mother <"@ {mother}
@"@101fc.net> enlightened us thusly:

>On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:30:30 +0000, Austin Shackles
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>wouldn't have bothered on a composite one, but I doubt that's yer problem,
>
>Why not? The standard one will come with a guarantee to split along
>the middle seam within no time whatsoever...

I meant, I'd not have bothered with hylomar on a composite gasket. The
composite one I've seen was steel with a rubberoid stuff on each side, and
should seal OK.

Still doubt the sealing stuff per se is the problem. You've got to have a
*serious* manifold leak for it not to start at all.

Lifters... hmmm. If new ones, it might take rather a lot of cranking to
prime them, I spose.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"There is plenty of time to win this game, and to thrash the Spaniards
too" Sir Francis Drake (1540? - 1596) Attr. saying when the Armarda was
sighted, 20th July 1588

Lee_D wrote:

> Is there anything more to fitting the lifters than soaking in oil and
> inserting them?? I assume it's one size fits all?

Well, I'd have primed them before fitting them - by giving them the old
squash, let them expand, and repeat until they pump up solid (ie full of
oil) whilst they were soaking.

--
EMB

Lee_D wrote:

> He was spluttering very very occasionally, has a spark or at least HT going
> down the leads.

Are you sure the HT leads are correctly fitted?

And the spark plugs didn't remain in the heads whilst they were being
fettled did they? If they did and they've had a dose of parts cleaner
they may be somewhat reluctant to actually produce a spark.


--
EMB

"EMB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lee_D wrote:
>
>> He was spluttering very very occasionally, has a spark or at least HT
>> going down the leads.
>
> Are you sure the HT leads are correctly fitted?

Yep nice sparkly expensive new ones (it ran before being pulled apart) with
numbers on em :0)

> And the spark plugs didn't remain in the heads whilst they were being
> fettled did they? If they did and they've had a dose of parts cleaner
> they may be somewhat reluctant to actually produce a spark.

Er'm ,...... yes.... I'd assumed that this had done them the world of good
given they looked like new. I'll have to remove them tomorrow anyway, I'll
no doubt give them a blast with the blow lamp should cure any after effects
shouldn't it? I need to check fuel is getting to them and could do with
removing the lot to crank the lump over to be sure the lifter are lifting.

Lee D

Lee_D wrote:
> "EMB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Lee_D wrote:
>>
>>
>>>He was spluttering very very occasionally, has a spark or at least HT
>>>going down the leads.
>>
>>Are you sure the HT leads are correctly fitted?

>
>
> Yep nice sparkly expensive new ones (it ran before being pulled apart) with
> numbers on em :0)

And you've honestly remembered which number goes where? I've had a
sudden dose of brain fade and messed up V8 leads on a few occasions when
I've forgotten that different engine manufacturers number their
cylinders in different ways.
>
>
>>And the spark plugs didn't remain in the heads whilst they were being
>>fettled did they? If they did and they've had a dose of parts cleaner
>>they may be somewhat reluctant to actually produce a spark.
>
>
> Er'm ,...... yes.... I'd assumed that this had done them the world of good
> given they looked like new. I'll have to remove them tomorrow anyway, I'll
> no doubt give them a blast with the blow lamp should cure any after effects
> shouldn't it? I need to check fuel is getting to them and could do with
> removing the lot to crank the lump over to be sure the lifter are lifting.

Not all cleaning solvents have this effect - but some of them seem to
impregnate the ceramic bit with something conductive so the plug just
shorts rather than producing a spark in the gap. I guess the old
blowtorch trick will fix them - but I've never tried; for the price of
spark plugs I just replace them.

--
EMB

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:20:23 -0000, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Just used a composit valley gasket with a smidgen of hylomar around each
>port.
>
>Morph now refuses to fire up. ....H'mmmmm
>
>Whats the verdict...who would / wouldneya use anything or just a bare
>gasket?

I dont see how you could have buggered something up by fitting a
gasket...

I'm now getting pretty good at troubleshooting cars that wont run
after i touch them

I generally do:
check for fuel
check for sparks
check that sparks and ignition related stuff is happening at the
correct time and in the right order (so HT check, dissy check and then
piston/crank/cam check)

I'm sure you will work it out eventually. it sometimes just needs a
nights rest and it'll kick in perfectly!

are you sure you havent just knocked the dissy about or something?

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:52:24 +1300, EMB <[email protected]> wrote:

>Lee_D wrote:
>> "EMB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>Lee_D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>He was spluttering very very occasionally, has a spark or at least HT
>>>>going down the leads.
>>>
>>>Are you sure the HT leads are correctly fitted?
>
>>
>>
>> Yep nice sparkly expensive new ones (it ran before being pulled apart) with
>> numbers on em :0)
>
>And you've honestly remembered which number goes where? I've had a
>sudden dose of brain fade and messed up V8 leads on a few occasions when
>I've forgotten that different engine manufacturers number their
>cylinders in different ways.

The HT lead diagram in my 101 repair manual is wrong too! You didnt
use one of them didya Lee?

EMB wrote:

> Lee_D wrote:
>
>> He was spluttering very very occasionally, has a spark or at least HT
>> going down the leads.
>
>
> Are you sure the HT leads are correctly fitted?
>
> And the spark plugs didn't remain in the heads whilst they were being
> fettled did they? If they did and they've had a dose of parts cleaner
> they may be somewhat reluctant to actually produce a spark.

Now we're getting somewhere - the chances are that it is nothing to with
the gasket with or without sealant. Look for something silly that you've
left off, leads crossed etc..

"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The HT lead diagram in my 101 repair manual is wrong too! You didnt
> use one of them didya Lee?
>

Nope, I followed the numbers on the Inlet manifold summat like 2468 down the
Right and 1357 down the left if my memory serves me right.

Nothings moved at the Dizzy end either.

Lee D

"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> I generally do:
> check for fuel
> check for sparks
> check that sparks and ignition related stuff is happening at the
> correct time and in the right order (so HT check, dissy check and then
> piston/crank/cam check)

Your list seems to have omitted flatten battery, rush to pick up kids, go
swiming and sulk ;-)

>
> I'm sure you will work it out eventually. it sometimes just needs a
> nights rest and it'll kick in perfectly!
>
> are you sure you havent just knocked the dissy about or something?

Nope, could well have done, but before I feck summat else I want to be sure.
Can't check the timing now as the battery is dead. Will check it tomorrow.

All this would be alot easier if I tossed a few hundred quid in a brazier...
scoured my hands with a wire brush and then poured on some nice citric
cleaner. Ho Hum!

Lee D

"Lee_D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> The HT lead diagram in my 101 repair manual is wrong too! You didnt
>> use one of them didya Lee?
>>
>
> Nope, I followed the numbers on the Inlet manifold summat like 2468 down
> the Right and 1357 down the left if my memory serves me right.
>
> Nothings moved at the Dizzy end either.
>
> Lee D
>
Not Rover but as good as it gets...

http://www.boxwrench.net/specs/chevy_sb.htm

Lee D

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 20:37:52 -0000, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>> I generally do:
>> check for fuel
>> check for sparks
>> check that sparks and ignition related stuff is happening at the
>> correct time and in the right order (so HT check, dissy check and then
>> piston/crank/cam check)
>
>Your list seems to have omitted flatten battery, rush to pick up kids, go
>swiming and sulk ;-)

;-) I really should have added the flatten battery step as it usually
happens to me - but i now own a very heavy duty battery charger and
jump starter so it doesnt stop me for long!

>> I'm sure you will work it out eventually. it sometimes just needs a
>> nights rest and it'll kick in perfectly!
>>
>> are you sure you havent just knocked the dissy about or something?
>
>Nope, could well have done, but before I feck summat else I want to be sure.
>Can't check the timing now as the battery is dead. Will check it tomorrow.
>
>All this would be alot easier if I tossed a few hundred quid in a brazier...
>scoured my hands with a wire brush and then poured on some nice citric
>cleaner. Ho Hum!

Atleast it hasnt taken you over 6 months to get the bloody bits to fix
morph. I'm currently chasing up leads to get a set of piston rings
specially made to finish off my saab before i can even start on the
101!

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 20:44:27 -0000, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Lee_D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> "Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> The HT lead diagram in my 101 repair manual is wrong too! You didnt
>>> use one of them didya Lee?
>>>
>>
>> Nope, I followed the numbers on the Inlet manifold summat like 2468 down
>> the Right and 1357 down the left if my memory serves me right.
>>
>> Nothings moved at the Dizzy end either.
>>
>> Lee D
>>
>Not Rover but as good as it gets...
>
>http://www.boxwrench.net/specs/chevy_sb.htm
>
>Lee D

I think i might have lied about my workshop manual being wrong. I've
just checked it and it matches to my 90 manual. Perhaps i'm going mad
as im sure it was that i went off when i only got 5/8 leads right. It
still ran though.

Have you checked that the coil and the ballast resitor are both
getting power in the right places? wouldnt be unheard of for the
ballast resistor to fail all of a sudden.

"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> I think i might have lied about my workshop manual being wrong. I've
> just checked it and it matches to my 90 manual. Perhaps i'm going mad
> as im sure it was that i went off when i only got 5/8 leads right. It
> still ran though.
>
> Have you checked that the coil and the ballast resitor are both
> getting power in the right places? wouldnt be unheard of for the
> ballast resistor to fail all of a sudden.
>

Nope.. all I checked was that there was HT in the plug leads by attacking
the super strobe. No time to try anything else. Given there was HT then I
suspect the electrics are fine. Given they haven't been touched I'd expect
that which is why my initial suspect was a weak mixture due to a poorly
sealed vally gasket.

Time will tell.. sleep beckons -- I can almost bend my fingers again.. must
be time for more therapy :0)

Lee D
--
www.lrproject.com

"Lee_D" wrote >>
> He was spluttering very very occasionally, has a spark or at least HT
> going down the leads.
> I've left the carbs on the inlet so I know that they are sound as I remove
> them as one lump.
> Pump can be heard whiring in the tank and petrol can be smealt but thats
> as far as I managed to get.
> PITA that it's 6 miles away at the mo, hands are cut to bits.

My S111 has always really wanted to start first time and has, if you
understand what I mean, but on Monday when I went out to take it for it's
MOT the damn thing refused to start and was just as you describe. I got out
the WD 40 sprayed all the leads and away she went and has, once more,
started first time ever since. Maybe the recent cold spell did something to
the leads.
Worth a try.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

Lee_D <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz
funny about:

> Time will tell.. sleep beckons -- I can almost bend my fingers
> again.. must be time for more therapy :0)
>
> Lee D

Well after a rather sleepless night with a million possibilities running
around inside my head I got up bright and breezy and set out to sort Morph.
I did ponder just purchasing a new set of plugs and a new valley gasket and
biting the bullet to save another trip in to town. I am however tight as a
ducks arse when it comes to these things. I dug out the blow lamp and set
off to Ma and Pa's... Foggy than a foggy thing in a fog factory. Got there
and whipped the Dizzy cap off again and wiped out anything that wasn't
visible to inspection (Dizzy caps probably only done 500 miles). Quadruple
checked the plug leads.. they were fine. Checked the dizzy was tight and not
likely to have been leaned upon. Whipped out all the plugs.. some had very
minor mush up them, remains of anything that had been left in the bores and
no doubt any oil that had worked it's was in yesterday during my cranking
session.

Turned over the engine with no plugs.. or that was the plan.. Was stuck in
gear , then the starter jammed on...smoke and panic for 30 seconds followed
by much cossing. Tryed to turn him over again with the gearbox in neutral
and the battery (charged overnight) was now dead again.... <Insert choice of
rude words here - repeat times 4>

I then put the battery on charge in the workshop, set the genny about
charging a second battery and swapped to the aux battery once that had some
therapy.

In the mean time I lined up the spark plugs like an SAS squad they were in
for some treatment... WD40 to clean off any invisible megaconductive residue
from the parts wash treatment. Then emery paper on the tips to clean up for
a good spark. These plugs again have only done 500 miles max (quite a while
in a 101 Ambi...well mine anyway!). Once they appeared spotless I lined them
up on a brick safely away from any flamables and then gave them a light
toasting with the blow lamp. The ends immediately got greyer and
cleaner/dryer looking (didn't appear that bad in the first place).

Now given I've lit the blow lamp and done very little fire starting I cast
the flame into the open bores , a couple go "shoosh" as the remains of an
vapour get burnt off but in the main it was a none event.

Bunged it all together..... hit the starter and he's definately trying to
fire now on the first turn. I ease off the starter for some unknown reason
but it looks like the starter has jammed on again. Possibly cooked it the
day before with all that cranking.

Miffed again, the battery goes on charge. Starter gets pulled off.. rolled
around.. tested on some jump leads.. rolled around and prodded a bit more
and bunged back on again.

Tried to fire him up once the batteries were charged sufficently and

VRRROooooooooooooooooOOOOMMMMM

WOP WOP WOP WOP WOP WOP

VRRRROOOOOOooooooooooooMMMMM

WOP WOP WOP WOP

Yeah I know..funny sounding starter motor

;0)

Well impressed and relieved at the same time.

Whats more I only lost one bolt in the whole exercise!

Lee D
--
www.lrproject.com