Getting back reliability

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jamescronin

Active Member
Posts
636
Location
London
So after a couple of years with my 90 being very unreliable, and deciding to pack up in the most anoying places I have finaly decided to try and get it back mechanicaly sound, and need some advice on what to do

Basicly it's a 1986 90 witha 2.5TD fitted which has done 180k

The main problems I have had so far are:
2x transfer box failure - the first time the selection fork snaped off and stripped the teath from the input shaft, but thankfully the splines stayed intact, so I had these items replaced and had a cross drilled shaft installed. All was well, until I realised that they had not resolved the original cause of the failure (i.e. both output oil seals being worn) and it then ran out of oil half way to the lakes and then finaly exploded about a mile and a half up a snow and ice covered track near torver. After a partial rebuild it managed to get it the 370 miles back to london with no middle bearing, no spedo, and no selection fork)

This box has now been replaced with a second hand one, with new oil seals fitted and seems to be dry. - I opted to keep the old hand break as it was already adjusted to the seased up cable

When doing the replacment I noticed that the splines on the input shaft from the main box are very worn, and have a 45degree slop on the load side of them which is obviously not right. However it has done around another 3000 miles since this with no major problems (however there is quite a lot of slack in the transmission when pulling off

The other problem is the engine. It is smoking at startup, but soon settles down, but lack power. The turbo has been changed soon after i got it after the oil seals went and a huge amount of white smoke filled the A12 - thankfully i managed to stop the engine by using the clutch in 5th gear before all the oil was burnt away. - The new one used to whine when it was provinging boost, but this seems to have stopped recently.

There is also a large amount of back pressure in the engine, and it blows oil out of the rocker cover breather pipe all the time, and when starting up one cyliner does the compression cycle quicker and easier then the other three, so I guess at least one cylinder is down on compression.

So as I'm planning a number of long journeys in the next few months I would like it in tip top condition and RELIABLE if at all pos. - I'm told that the 2.5TD should be, and try and get the fuel usage down a bit 12mpg on the motorway is a little depressing

What I want to know is the following:-

1) do the worn splines pose a major problem - i'm not intending on entering any weight pulling compertitions - but do load the back up with around 1tonne of kit :) - if it is, can this shaft easily be replaced (e.g. can it be pulled out and a new one up in without removing the gear box / transfer box?

2) should I put the cross drilled shaft into the replacment box (i don't know any history of the box it came from a breakers yard, and had a power takeoff unit on it, which was removed and the blanking plate put back on - BUT this box is different as the rear bearing for the shaft is built into a cage inside the box, while my old one was part of the back cover)

3)I want get the compression back up in the engine, put new injectors in and get the power back - I presume this is something I can do with the power plant still in situ by removing the sump, and head.
My worry here is as I need to get the work done in a weekend is

i) should I replace the pistons or just the rings as i hear that the turbos have a habit of cracking the pistons? - I need to order the parts in advance
ii) do the valvles burn in these engines/ do the vavle guides wear - i.e. should I be looking at replacing the valves or just regrinding them?
iii) Why is my turbo nolonger making the whining noise that it used to?
iv) Is there anything else I should be looking at doing to it that is likely to break soon - I have had a new water pump fitted and had the injector timing done recently, as well as a second hand starter fitted which turns it over easily

4) And this is very anoying - From time to time the right side side lights come on for no reason, and run the battery flat overnight - the left ones stay off. It does not matter what i do with the switch, and the only way to turn them off is to remove the fuse. I notice that the lights are dimmer than they should be, and come to full bringhtness when the switch is turned on - starnage!! I guess there is a short smoewhere but I just cant find where - any ideas anybody?????

Thanks for reading so far - any help/advice would be appreciated (except for fitting a new engine/gearbox as I don't have any desire to ever do this again after recently doing this on another car whith a much smaller engine - I was looking for a bridge at one point)

James
 
Buy a cheap rotbox disco and put the engine and transfer box in the 90. Then sell everything you don't need on ebay.

If you can't sort the lights out buy a battery isolator switch and use it to disconnect the battery from the rest of the vehicles electrics when you park it up.
 
yer wasting yer dosh and time trying to get the TD running well - you can easily spend the price of a decent 200 on new pistons/rings/valves etc - and a proper rebuild (which is what it sounds like it needs) isn't a trivial task - and you'd only end up with a engine that is marginally reliable

do what the red man says

oh and the lights issue is probably just a dodgy earth - running a few new earths from the battery to the major components usually solves this (unless you have hours to spare finding where the loose wire is)
 
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Basicly it's a 1986 90 witha 2.5TD fitted which has done 180k

I would not waste the time on it now - it needs a full rebuild - unless that's what you want, which is fair enough some people like to keep it stock.



When doing the replacment I noticed that the splines on the input shaft from the main box are very worn, and have a 45degree slop on the load side of them which is obviously not right.

This will get progressively worse until one day you loose all drive - if your main box is in good order except for this then you can fit a cross drilled LONG SPLINED input gear which will act on more of the shaft (and as a result part of the shaft that will not be worn). Unless of course you already have a long splined gear fitted in which case its rebuild or replace time.


The other problem is the engine. It is smoking at startup, but soon settles down, but lack power. The turbo has been changed soon after i got it after the oil seals went and a huge amount of white smoke filled the A12 - thankfully i managed to stop the engine by using the clutch in 5th gear before all the oil was burnt away. - The new one used to whine when it was provinging boost, but this seems to have stopped recently.

There is also a large amount of back pressure in the engine, and it blows oil out of the rocker cover breather pipe all the time, and when starting up one cyliner does the compression cycle quicker and easier then the other three, so I guess at least one cylinder is down on compression.

Piston rings, valves, stem seals all sorts of things can be causing the smoke.


I'm told that the 2.5TD should be, and try and get the fuel usage down a bit 12mpg on the motorway is a little depressing.

They lied to you, the 2.5TD was the downfall of LR for years. The engine should never have been built and it really is NOT reliable. Taking the turbo off, putting a NA manifold on it would make it more relable.

That consumption is also crazy, you should be getting 20 easy, those are V8 figures!

Regarding the electrics, it is obviously getting a live from somewhere, there is a fused always live that runs down the main loom to the back, it could be that these have chaffed and are now touching. Otherwise you are just going to have to go hunting - next time it happens pull fuses from other circuits to see if that kills it, then you can see where its getting the leccy from.
 
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Thanks for advice - I guess that a 200tdi would be the best then? I'm told its not just a matter of swapping them as there are some other issues e.g. water pipes?

I'm not intending on putting that much more use to it, and don't want to spend a huge amount which is why I was hoping to just get this one back to some sort of working order so that I can get a good price for the landy and upgrade to a newer one - ? TD5

As for the splines it seemed to have affected the entire length of it - any ideas how long it may have left (weeks, months or years) - I'm not putting that much strain on it (most of the time)

The lights go off when I remove the fuse that powers that side of the side lights, but does not go off when I unplug the switch on the wheel from the loom comming up to it - is there a relay somewhere?

James
 
Thanks for advice - I guess that a 200tdi would be the best then? I'm told its not just a matter of swapping them as there are some other issues e.g. water pipes?

I'm not intending on putting that much more use to it, and don't want to spend a huge amount which is why I was hoping to just get this one back to some sort of working order so that I can get a good price for the landy and upgrade to a newer one - ? TD5

As for the splines it seemed to have affected the entire length of it - any ideas how long it may have left (weeks, months or years) - I'm not putting that much strain on it (most of the time)

The lights go off when I remove the fuse that powers that side of the side lights, but does not go off when I unplug the switch on the wheel from the loom comming up to it - is there a relay somewhere?

James

The 200tdi swap is the most common td mod. You can buy the complete hose & exhaust kit off ebay for £170. everything else just falls into place.
 
As for the splines it seemed to have affected the entire length of it - any ideas how long it may have left (weeks, months or years) - I'm not putting that much strain on it (most of the time)

The lights go off when I remove the fuse that powers that side of the side lights, but does not go off when I unplug the switch on the wheel from the loom comming up to it - is there a relay somewhere?

James

The splines will probably last you a while unless they look really bad, take lots of care when taking off. I have the same problem at the moment and until I can be bothered fitting my new transfer box I am just living with it.

Looking at the circuit diagram there is no sign of a relay for the sidelights. So the lights come on, then if you pull the fuse to them they go off? Yet if you pull the switch connector from the switch they still stay on?

Well the circuit is so damn simple, main feed into switch, power goes out to circuit for side light/tail light via 2 fuses one for each side and a third connection goes to the dash lights. If you pull the switch the circuit should be open and they should go out. UNLESS there is a leak from the dash light circuit, it could be getting back fed AFTER the switch but BEFORE the fuse - do the dash lights come on with the side lights?
 
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do the dash lights come on with the side lights?


YES - thanks - this is obviously what is going on and why they are so dim, and why they go out when I pull the radio fuse out (just recalled this bit - sorry) - Think i'll go out and get a hayns and have a look at the circuit diag and trace back - thanks for your help

As for the splines, they dont look that bad, just rounded instead of a 45deg slope on the tips, so hopefully will last a while - may join the AA though as they get a bit more worn :)

Just did some preliminary look and feel for taking the head off - looks a lot simpler that the BL A series engine I just re-built (obviously this is diesel)

One bit of good news is that the push rods seem to be straight, but the tapet gaps are all out - Think i'm going to take the head off first, just spend the money on a new gasket, and see what the damage is first.

Does anybody have any idea of the torque settings for the head bolts? (guess this will be in the book i'm just about to purchase)

And finaly for tonight (sorry for going on) - I presume that if I remove the hose connecting the turbo and the inlet manifold together, and put the filter pipe direct onto the manifold, I get an N/A ? - just to see if this is holding it back as it seems to accelerate well at low reves, and then come to an abrupt holt around 2000rpm (rough guess) as if it is being starved of fuel/air (fuel lift pump and injectors just serviced)

The turbo fan seems to spin freely, unless I apply sideways pressure when it sticks (guess only single bearing)
 
One bit of good news is that the push rods seem to be straight, but the tapet gaps are all out - Think i'm going to take the head off first, just spend the money on a new gasket, and see what the damage is first.

I would start by setting ALL the valve clearances carefully to 0.25mm - this MIGHT account for you're compression issue on one cylinder. However it does sound like your piston rings have had it. You could, take the head and sump off remove the pistons and if the bores are OK re-ring them and do the big end bearings while you're at it, this will also let you leave the engine in place.

Does anybody have any idea of the torque settings for the head bolts? (guess this will be in the book i'm just about to purchase)

123Nm or 91lbf ft

And finaly for tonight (sorry for going on) - I presume that if I remove the hose connecting the turbo and the inlet manifold together, and put the filter pipe direct onto the manifold, I get an N/A ? - just to see if this is holding it back as it seems to accelerate well at low reves, and then come to an abrupt holt around 2000rpm (rough guess) as if it is being starved of fuel/air (fuel lift pump and injectors just serviced)

Yes thats about it.

Air filter OK?

Have you checked that there is NO air in the system, on top of the fuel filter housing is a banjo, undo it and look for a TINY hole in it, this it to pass air, it will pass LOTS of air and very little diesel, if its blocked it cannot get rid of air and the Lucas CAV injection pump does NOT like air.

The next thing it could be is the injection pump itself - it may need cleaned out (they call it an overhaul but thats all they really are doing). Expect to pay about £120 for a rebuild.

The turbo fan seems to spin freely, unless I apply sideways pressure when it sticks (guess only single bearing)

It will only run freely when it has a live oil supply, its a film of oil that the shaft runs in, so no oil pressue = shaft movement, a little sideways movement is OK.

I will post some pictures of what too much movement does!
 
The next thing it could be is the injection pump itself - it may need cleaned out (they call it an overhaul but thats all they really are doing). Expect to pay about £120 for a rebuild.

Already done, and timing reset


It will only run freely when it has a live oil supply, its a film of oil that the shaft runs in, so no oil pressue = shaft movement, a little sideways movement is OK.

I will post some pictures of what too much movement does!

This has already happened - A12 near colchester - the cloud went back two miles, and almost closed the road - the coppers were not impressed:)
 
Good job there is a bank holiday comming up :)

I'm just not sure if I should swap the pistons if there OK as I hear there prone to cracking esp with the turbo fitted?

James
 
Yes they were prone to cracking in the TD.

A piston assembly with rings is 35 plus VAT so if you are planning on giving your engine a good refurb and keeping it for a while then I would say it's a good idea. I would be tempted to strip it first and get an idea of what it's like in there before you buy anything though.
 
jus to give you another thought... I bought me a rotten discpo for £350, i now have a disc braked 300tdi 90 which will cruise at 70-80mph, returns around 30MPG on a motorway, and i made a profit from selling other bits from the conversion, and it took just over a week.

Its a lot of effort to rebuild your TD...
 
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